With the current prices on IH and IO, wouldn’t it be more prudent to just buy straight bottles of Alphanol and Betanol, as I believe they are the ingredients of IO and almost all of the ingredients for IH? From there I could just dose it to make my own IO and IH.
Also begs the question: I’ve been told IH and IO prices are high because a certain mone became expensive to produce. Alphanol and Betanol prices seem reasonable however. Someone want to point out what I’m missing? As far as I’ve been told, IO is only made of Anol and Bnol, so then shouldn’t IO still be the price it was before (or atleast the price it is now to buy Anol and Bnol)? IH has that third molecule, so maybe that’s why it became expensive.
CTTM (ANOL/BNOL) is just that, Come Talk to Me, approachable, fun, talkative behaviour from people. A IO/IH combo is a little different, same approachability, fun, a tad bit more serious but in a good way, reveals “more” information from people, probably due to the steering molecule in IH, which feels “disinhibiting” to me - people are more likely to talk about intimate/personal things about their lives which I don’t really see from CTTM by itself.
So if Anol and Bnol are the only two ingredients in IO, why is IO so much more expensive than just buying Anol and Bnol separately and mixing them at the same mcg per spray?
You will have to ask John that question. From what I understand…
Anol is anol but there are different synthesises. Sort of like different strains for lack of a better word. Whats used in IO is slightly different then what you can buy raw. Sort of like a hybrid anol. It costs more to have this synthesized then it does the everyday anol we see online.
Now how true this is I cant tell you but I am just sharing what I was told. I will say though that using plain old anol and bnol is the same for me as using CTTM or IO.
Here’s another old thread discussing the evolution from CTTM ( alpha and beta androstenol ) to IH and IO, with commentary from Michael Harris. This last week was my first attempt at pushing the outer envelope of IO and IH, testing 4 sprays of the standard TOGO version each. ANOL can be a suitable product just to experiment with the spacey affect (Spaceland). However, the high BNOL by itself, without the refinements in IH – people report some harshness which ranges from introspection to perhaps even neurosis. Even the 4 sprays of IH and IO together starts to get really far out. I really do not think I’d want to go for high doses of straight BNOL without the softening in IH.
However, people say using the raw BNOL and ANOL in the ExperiMone line can be fun. I just would start out gradually and probably keep the ANOL vs BNOL ratio right at about 50/50. Reports suggest that, once you start shifting to heavier BNOL ratio, unpleasant reactions can occur, because the unspecified refinements in IH aren’t there to soften it.
In the test above, I added 4 sprays of standard IS TOGO (happy juice) to the IH and IO, and I think it kept things getting too heavy and emotional. BNOL can affect people oddly and unpredictably.
Hmm… I read through that and now I’m a bit concerned with negative side effects if I were to just mix Anol and Bnol. Maybe I should throw in some IS too? Not sure what else I could do there…
Based upon everything I see, it seems ordering something like 25 mcg / mL ExperiMone Alpha Androstenol and Beta Androstenol would be OK. Start with one spray each or 2 of ANOL and one of BNOL. Keep your ratio at 1:1 or 2:1. At 2:1, you’ve got Spaceland plus about four sprays of IH, you just don’t have the buffering that IH was perfected to include (and that straight BNOL lacks). So it looks to me. It’s at about 40-50 mcg of BNOL (about 4 sprays of IH or so) that stuff gets really out there.
You could throw in some IS…maybe 2 sprays. I tried 4, and I think the TAA plus the Alpha NOL was making people too stoned.
IIRC it was just 50mcg Anol and some Clary Sage in Spaceland - there is a past thread discussing this combo as an effective replacement. IIRC it was Tisha who punted it.
Then again, there is a rather good product in a very similar vein to Spaceland being sold elsewhere just now.
If you want to experiment with ANOL and BNOL, it would be easier to buy the 12.5mcg sprays to find the dosage you like, ANOL and BNOL can be really tricky to dose as results can be dosage sensitive.
To compare, 25mcg ANOL and 25mcg BNOL (50/50) would be close to 2 sprays of IO and 2 sprays of IH - these dosages produces consisent results for sociability and communication. If you would like more of a talkative atmosphere and fun you could dose it like 37.5mcg ANOL and 25mcg BNOL (60/40) - that would almost equal 3 sprays of IO and 1 spray of IH.
My sweet spot in an attraction mix is about 20-25mcg ANOL and 20-25mcg BNOL, find it a good balance for open and honest communication, still fun, not too goofy or serious.
I’m not entirely sure about the “unpleasant reactions” people are talking about with b-nol, but I have some relatively pure b-nol that I got from another company (in concentrated form) back in the day. One thing I’ll notice with using it is that unlike IH it will make me and anyone else around me start saying all kinds of things that they would ordinarily not volunteer. Is that what people are referring to? I also notice headaches if I use way too much of it, same with alpha -nol. I don’t know, though - I’ve never used a massive dose of IH but I suspect it would probably have similar “truth serum” effects.
I think the unpleasant side of betanol is that it can work either way eg encourage people to unload all their problems on you - Depending on situation its not bad per-se but if you are trying to use it in an attraction context, this is not the kind of interaction you generally want to encourage as its a near-certain passion killer.
This is where the IH steering becomes important, IS, TAC, P74, IG, even alphanol - all stuff that help keep it on the happy/playful/positively engaging and bubbly side, rather than serious/heavygoing.
And yes, I have had the headache on high dose as well.
Ah, yeah. Yeah, I am familiar with that one. I find it doesn’t hurt my approach usually, but I tend to play the long game with people, which is a different kettle of fish altogether.
