According to Tisha they are not the same
I never used Wagg myself. after reading some of those descriptions from Visionary I don’t thinK i ever want to try Wagg, and go down the ladder as it says.
what has people experience been
OH Dae I meant to mention this this morning but I wanted to check with the Phero Lord first.
Oh, okay, well that’s that. I wonder what product it was based off of..If it was A314, that would be ironic as all hell. 
I’ve never encountered anything negative with TAK or WAGG. Certainly I’ve never felt bullied or pushed around wearing it. It affects everybody, I think some people miss that a bit.
It’s also not necessarily designed for “hitting” on people. I’ve had good luck with either TAK or WAGG for initiating small talk with people, something that is hard to do where I currently live (near Orlando). It helps me feel more comfortable talking to people, and it also helps other people take down some of their defensiveness. If you can keep that in mind, that it has a specific effect and job, it can serve you well and of course it isn’t for everybody. Some people don’t need TAK. If you are already non-serious, not very intense or threatening, and have no problems with small talk and so forth, you don’t need TAK or WAGG.
Its also been suspected that WAGG was based on another product sold here but didn’t have the desired or lets say expected effect. --Tisha
My guess is CTTM version 1. Just a guess, but that seems to fit. 
You should try a bottle of WAGG, then get back to me on that one (and you could probably describe the effect better than alot of other people, too). I don’t think WAGG has any androstenols in it. I might be wrong on that one but it doesn’t seem to change your approachability in the sense that Instant Openness does, nor does it seem to alter eye contact behavior or stuff like that.
If WAGG has any other pheromones other than TAK, which I concede is a possibility, I’m not familiar with them. Perhaps it has trace amount of other pheromones but I think the bulk of the product is a single pheromone because it really only does one thing.
Last night I did an experiment. I applied 120mcg TAK. That is more than I have tried before. I combined it with 60mcg of P101. No other pheromones.
The feelings were not so different from 15mcg of TAK. Maybe a little stronger, but not much. I stayed at home. If I had gone out into the world, maybe I’d have felt more disoriented or something.
I didn’t really notice anything much from the P101. It may have had a slight “uplifting” effect. I’ve tried P101 before in smaller amounts and didn’t get much. I probably don’t know what to look for.
I still feel what tacitus referred to as a “dissociative” effect. I think that is a good description. At these higher doses I did not leave my body and float around the room or anything. Just a sense of being somewhat removed from the here and now situation. I did not feel that awkward, clumsy, out-of-sync-with-my-physical-body experience that Daedelus and I have both reported at lower doses. Perhaps I am just getting acustomed to TAK. It does follow from the sense of dissociation that the kinesthetic would be downplayed under TAK influence.
Previously, I believe I described TAK as visual. I am now thinking that is wrong. I tend to think of dissociation as being visually mediated, but perhaps not so in the case of TAK. There are visual effects. There is a slight sense of tunnel vision. I had noticed that fairly consistently before but had never quite articulated to myself what was going on. With 120mcg TAK, I actually found it quite difficult to move my eyes back and forth across the computer screen as I tried (and gave up) to read my email. I do carry more tension around my eys than most people. Others may not have this particular experience.
I continue to notice the mind racing effect. This seems to be associated with what Bandler & Grinder referred to as Auditory digital. I cannot help but to narrate my own life, in rapid detail. Perhaps it is accurate to say the dissociation is auditorily mediated. I do not understand how tacitus describes this as shamanistic.
The more I experiment with TAK the less I like it. It doesn’t do what I expect and what it does do is increasingly annoying. Perhaps it would be good for writers block. Or perhaps overly focusing on the verbal could make it worse. I think the TAK experience does help me compose these posts.
It definitely seems to have an IFM effect in calming down b*tchy women. In so far as it facilitates cooperation with others, I have not noticed anything particularly warm or sensual in those interactions. In panicky situations it does put me back in control. I’d say that is due to the dissociative property. I am actually not sure “calming” is the best word. It just seems to help impose bigger picture rationality. In higher doses it can make other people seem quite annoying – like little dogs snapping at your heels when you are trying to attend to the bigger picture.
Warren, I see some similarities between your experiences and mine. I haven’t yet tried such a high dose (perhaps today is the day?) but I have noticed the ‘bigger picture rationality’, the ‘go with the flow’ mentality.
I think I mentioned one time where my friend was kind of trippin out over this guy not being there on time for a private sale (car parts, for those of you curious ) and I turned and sprayed him with 20-30 mcgs of TAK. After a couple minutes he says “hey, this actually kinda helped.” And soon thereafter, never mentioned it or wasn’t agitated after that.
I get that little dogs snapping feeling, with high doses of p79 or p93. What are you yapping for? I’ve got shit to do - kinda feeling.
I’ve been trying to nail down the differences between IS2x and IS2.1 but looks like we might be getting somewhere with TAK. I want in.
Oh speaking of which. You say that you don’t know how to use TAK. I think it’s just hard for us to imagine how to use it, since we ordinarily look for products that ‘bring people towards us’. TAK doesn’t really do such a thing, it’s much more, hey, chill and just relax in the situation. IME, like TAC, TAK has greater effects in groups. I would imagine TAK is great for getting agitated people to go with the flow, or just chill and stop trippin. I know I have some friends that get a little too riled up with Instant Honesty or such about the system how fucked up it is, money is evil, etc.. and I think TAK might help at least for him to go, well, can’t do anything about it just talkin, let’s chill.
Interesting experience at 120mcg TAK… so it seems to not be doing quite what you expected? I think the effect is nonlinear, honestly. It’s not like a drug, at some point your nose/brain is just going to tune it out. Olfactory fatigue, something I’m very familiar with. Sometimes less smell = more smell.
I had an interesting experience with Firmenich synthetic aoud recently. This stuff, initially, has very little smell in the concentrated state, and it’s highly resinous and gooey. It smells a bit like stable or a barnyard, but nothing really noticeable. When you dilute it though, it has a wierd feel to it- not really an identifiable smell. It is somewhat like carrot seeds or porcini mushrooms, but not very pronounced. It has very little body to it at all and has an airy smell, and yet parts of it seem to have a long skin life. It’s actually very beautiful in some ways, like the most beautiful smell you have ever smelled- unlike the cheaper steam extracted aouds I have tried, which tend to be nice but also medicinal and an “acquired taste”, and sometimes even a bit creepy with a burnt/caramel note that reminds some Westerners of things that go bump in the night. This smell was more transcendent and ethereal.
However, it does seem to have a bit of a TAK like effect. Not alot but it does seem to impart a calm feeling to situations. I’ve noticed the real aoud will also do this to some extent, too.
It’s wierd how some smell can get to you. I went to bed once wearing olibanum (Frankincense) oil and myrrh and in between the state of waking and dreaming I experienced a state of extreme happiness or contentment. It was like the most beautiful smell I have ever smelled. Interesting effect, and the Firmenich Aoud reminded me of that. TAK isn’t quite like that, though. At higher doses there’s nothing sublime about it, it’s more like a Salvador Dali painting done by a robot.
Okay, so I tried 1 drop of A314 and 20 mcgs of TAK today. I had two interesting things happen.
I combined the two, wondering if the TAK would be enough to sort of ‘melt’ the situation, so that the ‘distance’ created by A314 would be overcome. Kinda how like cheese melts and conforms to the shape of whatever it’s on. I must be hungry..
Anyways, it sort of worked, but at the cost of unbalancing the A314 I think. There was one middle aged black guy at the car wash who stopped cleaning cars to ask me if I went to some other school. He first asked me if I went to school in Berkeley, then asked if I went to somethingrather high school. I guess I reminded him of someone?
Anyways, they had put me down for an ultra wash, and it was a couple more bucks, but I didn’t wanna pay for it, and I had asked for the basic wash, which it clearly was not.
I speak to the guy who wrote up the ticket, and tell him he wrote the wrong wash. He tells me I should have been more clear. I respond by telling him that I asked for a ‘basic’ wash and I figured that meant just inside and out, not all the extras. He apparently took offense at this, as he sort of called me a cheapskate by saying ‘well next time tell me the ‘cheapest’ wash’. Dick.
Anyhow, I get back, my car’s done. Some other guy gets up thinking they’re calling him, as I’m not sure since my doors are wide open. I thought they weren’t done yet. I figure out that my car is done, and walk up to the guy handling my car. It happens to be that black guy from before.
He seemed confused on what to do when I walked up. After a moment, I gave him my receipt and he clicked into gear. Walked over to the passenger side, leaned in, wiped that side down one more time while remarking ‘they’re always rushing us, they don’t give us time to do the job properly.’ I thanked him and was off.
So, one guy had the audacity to underhandedly call me a cheapskate, another guy was really friendly and helpful. The addition TAK does strange things to A314. Maybe too much?
I applied another 20 mcgs (40 mcgs total) and went to go eat. Seemed to get interest from several asian girls in the restaurant. There was one group of Chinese girls behind me, being led by a Chinese American host. A little solid eye contact goes a long way, and across language barriers. I caught the eye of one girl, X. I didn’t talk to them, so this could all be speculation, but I was sitting down facing the pick up point waiting for my order. The group of girls is waiting in front of me. The host is facing the same direction as me, and the girls are facing him. I catch the eyes of all the other girls too. Seems like they’re observing me for some reason? Probably cause I’m watching them. 
Here’s where I kinda went, hmm? Another guy they know comes into the restaurant and starts talking to the host. This is while I’m sort of staring off in the space between everyone. Girl X steps into my line of site. Almost immediately the new guy steps over, takes a wide stance and completely blocks off any line of sight. I basically have an ass in my face. X is definitely the ‘prize’ in the group so to speak.
Other than that and some other random things that could just be considered speculation, I just zoned out a lot.
My conclusion would be, if you add any TAK to A314, add less than 15 mcgs, unless you’ve got more you need to smooth out. I think A314 doesn’t really need too much of the ‘blanketing’ effect of TAK, but I think it does help approachability.
Related:
I wouldn’t have thought of TAK as being particularly good with A314. Maybe I’m too hung up on the dissociative aspect of TAK, but being removed from the situation (TAK dissociation or “zoned out” as you put it) and being “in charge” (A314) would seem to contradict and perhaps make you a little nerdy. For me 20mcg would deefinitely be in the getting zoned out range. I’d be more inclined to use 2.5 or 5 mcg with A314. The Pre-op Rapunzel mix did combine 15mcg TAK with three drops A314 (and lots of other stuff), but Rapunzel wasn’t happy until she was drunk.
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From what you described, it sure sounds like you didn’t get much respect. I don’t know if it was the TAK or just not enough A314 (or both). The Chinese women did, however, seem to like you. Forgive the grossly oversimplifying stereotype, but they do tend to like nerdy. Did the ABC (American born Chinese) like you less than girls from China? My prediction: The ABC will see nerdy where the Chinese will see intellectual or gentleman.
The black guy at the car wash, who seemed friendly… Was that possibly because he was looking for a tip?
Interesting experiment. Thanks for reporting.
All the girls were Chinese born, it seemed. I never really talked to them, or directly interacted with them, so it’s all theory in the end.
Apparently, I need to rethink what a typical dose of TAK is. 
As for the black guy and the tip, this seemed genuine. He wiped everything down, and shut the door. Guys who want tips usually close all the doors and stuff before, and ‘ask’ for the tip as I’m getting in, usually opening the door for me.
I usually get good results with 1 drop, I’m pretty sure toning down the TAK will help. A touch of p79 might bring out some of the teeth again.
Julian Jaynes has the theory that ancient people’s much like schizophrenics of today had a bicameral mind. They didn’t possess ego or self consciousness. They didn’t understand “I” in the same context that we do. He asserts that their Corpus callosum that connects the two hemispheres of the brain wasn’t connected. So if you had a voice in your head it was the voice of god.
He references many historical figures and works throughout history as his evidence. He says that “god” was really the left hemisphere of the brain communicating with the right hemisphere. True or not, presently our brains are linked together and we’ve this wonderful sense of individuality.
If you’re not a number and not a freeman the answer is neurosis. Multiple personality disorder is what lies beyond the individual. If you stretch “I” to the limit it’s an endless string of self questioning self. Occasionally we do shit and wonder why the fuck we did it afterwards. It’s totally out of our character. It’s not because we’re just one person, there’s hundreds inside of all of us.
Now there’s a good game. Rumor mill says there’s a 3rd in the works. Every try the high definition texture pack? Deus Ex HDTP
The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind by Julian Jaynes. I read that as an undergraduate student. It was recommended by James V. McConnell. According to the FBI, the Unibomber’s first bombs were intended to frighten or maim, but not kill. The first bomb intended to kill was sent to Professor McConnell. (A teaching assistant was badly injured.)
Of course, it may be that the corpus callosum and right brain were, in fact, channelling God. According to Rich Zubaty, men are more spiritual than women because women have a larger corpus callosum and the added cross-talk distracts them from spiritual pursuit.
About the same time that Jaynes published this book, the theory was put forth that hysteria was the result of a nonfunctioning corpus callosum. This seems inconsistent with the notion that hysteria is generally a female disease. There are, however, symptoms that seem to be described by a functional separation of the two hemispheres. A large part of Bandler and Grinder’s pre-NLP work with Milton Erickson is described in terms of communicating separately with the two cerebral hemispheres with the right (non-dominant) hemisphere’s functions often corresponding to what Erickson called the “unconscious mind”.
The two hemispheres working at cross purposes, with contradictory intentions, would account for neurotic symptoms. I am not necessarily convinced that all sets of neurotically contradictory intentions would have to be localized in opposing hemishperes. Physiologically speaking, however, it would be a most efficient means of isolating or dissociating two systems’ incompatible bioelectrical processes.
On those occasions when “we do shit and wonder why the fuck we did it afterwards” it seems to me we are using a smoothly functioning corpus callosum directed by a left-brained controlled inhibition/disinhibition of the right brain in order to linguistically manipulate experience from a meta position. This meta-position dissociated from the experience that it is manipulating might indeed be considered a partial personality. Without amnesia for other identities or perspectives of one’s experience, however, I would not call it a multiple personality disorder. It is a healty expression of self awareness. I believe that this is the type of dissociation that TAK promotes.
The more interesting question involves the exact same process with right brain dominant, controlling inhibition/disinhibition of the left brain’s analytic capabilities and lead not by linguistic but by wholistic, visual and/or tonal directives. I have heard it asserted that this is how a computer programmer functions; it seems evident that this is how a musician functions. I am NOT aware of TAK facilitating this sort of dissociative experience in myself. If it can, however, it would explain tacitus’s description of TAK as shamanisitic.
I don’t think spirituality has much to do with the corpus callosum in the way you are suggesting. I also don’t necessarily see TAK as all that spiritual. It’s too wierd/bizarre in high doses in a way that doesn’t seem to give any particular insight into anything.
I also think “neurosis” is far more complex than to have a single, large structure of the brain working mal-adaptively. It’s far more likely a result of genetic vulnerability in an area of the brain coupled with learned behaviors- the frontal lobes and limbic systems have usually been seen as the main areas of interest. In depression and anxiety there may be an element of the frontal lobes acting in a way that is atypical when presented with stronger limbic system activity.
Spirituality viz a viz. masculinity, well, I won’t pretend to state that men are more spiritual, but an element of spirituality is always dealing with the big questions, such as pain, suffering, and death. Why does it happen? etc. Perhaps men tend to face more danger, anxiety, pain, and loss in their lives, and deal with it internally (in the brain) rather than socially. Those quesitons aren’t really localized to a specific area of the brain, although there is evidence people with some forms of epilepsy tend to be more drawn to spiritual questions, and there may be a genetic tendency to have religious belief.
I wore a base of 10mcgs of TAK under 1 spray of IH4X, 2 sprays of IO, and 2 sprays of IS2X.
I feel like the TAK added a sense of continuity. Specifically, I felt like there was continuity from when I was first seeing my friends to the end. As if we had never stopped hanging out. There also seemed to be a lot of..a sort of carefree-ness regarding the situation. Like we were all sorta along for the ride together.
I would definitely keep the dosages around 5-10 mcgs. Don’t know about any needing any reapplications of TAK yet.
The way I see it, TAK dissociates one from the current situation, which allows you to put things in perspective but limits your experince of the here and now. TAA (InstantShine) by contrast makes me very centered, grounded, here and now associated with my physical body. Rapunzel has been experimenting with alternating among the choices of TAK or TAA or neither. But what happens if you combine TAA and TAK? Do they pull indifferent directions? Do they cancel each other out or do they just make you uncomfortable and confused. Or do they actually give you both capabilities at the same time. If the latter, are you able to move back and forth at ease between associated and dissociated or might one actually be able to maintain both perspectives simultaneously?
This is a great contribution, Phya. If it holds up, it appears that one can successfully use TAK and TAA (Instant Shine) together for the continuity of the big picture AND the joy of the moment. It would be great for speeches, presentations and stage performances, where one needs to keep in mind the script and one’s location in it while maintaining contact with the audience in the present. And in so far as all the world is a stage, there are infinite applications.
Ideally one should hope to be able to apply the TAA-TAK combination on top of any other phero signature to gain the multiple perspective advantage in any given situation. Realistically, consciousness is a limited phenomena. I suspect there are places where dividing one’s attention would deprive oneself of necessary focus. I wonder what the limits of TAK-TAA are and where either TAK or TAA alone would be preferable.
I knew this chick that was into channeling. She was a little off the wall; But I believe if you leave anybody with a psychologist long enough they will find something wrong. Nobody’s truly “normal”, just different degrees of weird and some hide it better than others. Think about ourselves for a second here: How “normal” is it to spray chemicals on yourself to influence people’s neurology?
Anyways, she told me she would use channeling for creative works. She would induce this state of trance and start writing. Only the words she’d write would be that of what she would channel. She lent me a Seth book, which are authored by this lady who would induce trance. With her husband present she would go into trance and “Seth” would emerge.
“Seth” being either a multiple personality, spiritual entity, or extra terrestrial. Seth would give his musings while the husband would keep record. This chick that loaned me the book herself claimed to be in communion with aliens. Who am I to judge?
Alexander the Great said he was directed by the voice of god, and Julian Jaynes theory explains this quite well. There’s also another theorem which I don’t necessarily believe but found it to be interesting. During Alexander’s conquest there was records of “silver shields” that flew up in the sky. During the invasion of the Phoenician city of Tyre there was a written account of such a “silver shield” appearing and hurling a lightning bolt at a city wall. It left a nice hole which allowed them to breach the city defenses effortlessly.
If this were true, then it would likely mean Alexander the Great was directed by the voice of aliens. Again, I don’t subscribe to this idea but found it entertaining.
Thanks Warren, I don’t have any straight TAA, so I can’t make a direct comparison. With IS and TAK though, I’d say it more just melded together than pulling me apart. Maybe TAK is the great adapter? Like the universal glue? However, IH can add a sense of self-conciousness (Or more like introspectiveness for me), which could have helped counteract the ‘disassociation’. And IO is bright enough where it could have helped keep the vibe sharp and vibrant, not as dulled or hazy as TAK normally is.
The last thing to take into consideration, however, is that the dosage of TAK was low. 10mcgs is very small compared to the usual 50+ doses and the specific effects that come along with it. Perhaps the ‘disassociation’ of TAK wasn’t there because of the smaller dose.
There does seem to be a sort of ‘big picture’ mentality with TAK, and I do agree that for me, IS, has a spotlight, I want to perform! kinda feel. I didn’t think about it, but it would probably be a good mix for performing, esp in combination with -nols. The only thing that detracts from the ‘spotlight on you’ experience of IS, is that I think TAK adds a sense of ‘group mind’, which is either a byproduct, or the reason for the ‘bigger picture’ mentality.
I could see TAK also being great for those ‘under the radar’ prowls, where you just meet people, next thing you know, you’re really clicking with a girl and it just floooows naturally into physical intimacy. I’m sure you guys know what I mean. You don’t even know them like that, but somehow you both just knew to kiss each other that moment.
The ‘continuity’ of TAK is sort feels like that, basically it’s like you’ve already been hanging out. Though, that could also be in combination with the IH…I dunno, needs more looking into..
For the moment, I’ll stick with TAK being a big ‘blender’, it takes all the components, and blends it all into a nice smoooth mix.
I think TAK, if it’s dissosciative, is only emotionally dissosciative. Does that makes sense? Perhaps it allows people to approach situations with a sense of jamais vu, at least emotionally.
Sort of, care to elaborate?