Oil Prices: The Next Economic Bubble Waiting to Burst?

The low P/E ratios of oil company stocks indicates that oil stocks are undervalued compared to the rest of the market. Apparently investors believe they are somehow going to become less profitable in the near future. If you believe crude oil prices are going to remain near current levels or go up, oil company stocks are a screaming buy. I suppose the current depressed valuation of energy stocks makes sense if you really believe the dollar is going to suddenly rebound and crude oil prices decline as a result. I think that speculation is fanciful. I see the dollar continuing to inflate and lose value for the foreseeable future, both in real terms and in terms of most foreign currencies. If the dollar by some miracle strengthens, I believe, nevertheless, that oil prices must continue to rise in real terms, because of supply and demand fundamentals.

There is a danger of not seeing the forest for the trees. How high will the price of crude oil have to go before more dinosuars die and create more petroleum? The big picture is that long term global oil production is in unavoidable decline, at the same time that inexorable demand from highly populated developing countries is coming on line.

The little picture is that foreign currency valuations are relative. In most countries the price of gasoline will not appear to be going up as fast as it is in America because of the weakening dollar.

Americans think in dollars as though dollars had a constant value, which they do not. As monetary inflation eats away the purchasing power of the dollar, most salary increases will not keep up with actual inflation. The higher dollar price of gasoline, airline tickets, etc will result in carpooling, video conferencing and other means of reducing expenditures for energy. Demand for oil in America will have to decrease. Remember it is a zero sum game. If the new middle class in China and India is going to drive more, somebody is going to have to drive less. It is foreign demand that is driving up the real price of oil. In America the weak dollar is making those price increases look even bigger than they really are.

True, oil producing nations can buy less drilling activity per dollar, but they are getting a lot more dollars. The price of oil is going up faster than the value of the dollar is decreasing. I don’t see where this is an issue other than as a misperception. But, again, I don’t see this as a bubble driven by speculators. Inventories are thin.

I remember during the housing bubble, I kept meeting people who owned multiple houses. Most of them nobody was living in. They were just being held, as investments. And they kept building more! That was a bubble. It had to burst because there was and excess of housing and only unrealistic speculation was supporting real estate prices. Remember the telecom bubble? Ninety percent of the optical fiber laid by telecom companies was dark, unused. But people kept investing in companies like JDS Uniphase to make faster photonics when we already had excess capacity. That was a bubble. Remember hurricane Katrina? The streets of New Orleans flooded and people couldn’t drive and the price of gasoling plummeted. No. Wait a minute. I’m remembering wrong. A few rigs went off line in the gulf and energy prices spiked and parts of the country had gasoline shortages. Not a bubble.

If the Fed raises interest rates to strengthen the dollar any time soon, we’re likely to have an economic depression worse than the 1930s. That will decrease U.S. demand, but not necessarily global demand. The U.S. is no longer the 400 lb gorilla in the energy market. It is more likely the Fed will eventually work to stem the decline of the dollar, though I agree, no time soon. Actually increasing the value of the dollar? That’s a different thing. I don’t see any inevitability there. For the indefinite future, supply and demand will continue to increase the value of oil faster than anything is ever again likely to increase the value of the dollar.

For every futures contract bought, one is sold. Speculators can over the short term influence prices to the low side as well as the high side, but those who make unrealistic speculations lose huge amounts of money fast and are driven out of the game. The main thing they contribute to the market is liquidity. These are paper contracts to deliver. They aren’t flooding sombody’s basement with crude oil, removing it from the market. You are talking short term influences at best by people who are highly motivated to be realistic or go broke. All the oil that is being pumped is being used. More would be. As quality of life improves in the third world, demand for oil will increases as supply remains constrained. Four dollars a gallon for gasoline is one of the greatest bargains of your lifetime. It won’t last long.

Wow, looks like another fall today on Wall Street. The Dow lost over 320 points (down to around 12200 or so) and oil hit a record of almost $140 dollars a barrel, only about 88 cents short- a record.

Also, unemployment and payrolls are edging upward. Yesterday was “ho-hum” economic news. Wal-Mart did well, almost everybody else was sucking wind. When Wal-Mart does good, America does bad? As I predicted, the stimulus checks have gone straight to the Waltons… :frowning:

The Financial Times has a front page story where the European Central Bank is virtually promising to raise rates. That’ll strengthen the Euro and weaken the dollar, unless the Fed also raises rates which will probably result in the next Great Depression. T.Boone Pickens has called the details of the oil market quite well recently and he is wildly bullish, expecting $200 oil. Morgan Stanley predicted $150 by July 4th – well, we’re almost there. The CRB commodities index reached an all time high today (Friday) jumping three and a half percent in one day. The dolar lost a penny and a quarter.

Gold broke back up through $900 to $902 (Kitco). Legendary gold trader Jim Sinclairexpects gold to go quickly to $960, resesistance between $960 and 980, then to $1000, some hesitation, then $1024, 1033 and $1200 by the end of the year. Remote viewer Gerald O’Donnell correctly predicted when gold was over $1000 that it would break into the $800s in May. He sees it going to $1400 by the end of the summer! He is expecting extreme upwared moves in oil, but believes investing in oil at this point is bad karma and recommends gold.

There are persistent suggestions that current market activity is predicting war. In today’s Financial Times Secy of Defense Robt Gates sacked the two most senior Air Force officers after breakdowns in nuclear-weapons safeguards. Bill Murphey (GATA & LeMetropoleCafe) reports rumors among traders that these men were fired because they won’t go along with an attack on Iran. An ex-special ops officer claims there is no way they divulge actual nuclear security issues and that story is subterfuge. Also, in today’s news, Israel, for the first time, openly threatens to attack Iran if they continue with their nuclear program. Jim Sinclair reminds us that Pakistan is a bigger problem than Iran. The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080606.PAKISTAN06/TPStory/TPInternational/Asia/)runs a story describing Pakistan as being “in terrorists’ grip” after the recent embassy bombing.

When I went to the GATA conference near Washington DC this spring, there were frequent and confident predictions of at least one major bank failure before the end of the summer. Jim Williesees United Bank of Switzerland or Countrywide at risk. A recent Financial Times article paints Lehman Brothers as a candidate. There are others. As far as the stock market, Arch Crawford points to the On Balance Volume indicator as being worse than just before the Crash of 1929. The New Highs vs. New Lows data is also extremely bad and MACDs are giving SELL signals.

Arch Crawford has made some excellent calls, but many of his readers don’t admit to being influenced by him. Arch takes the traditional technical analysis he learned at Merrill Lynch and combines it with astrology. He warns of a Mars-Uranus crash cycle from August 6 through March 2009. As particularly significant dates, he points to the Lunar Eclipse of August 16 and a Sarturn-Uranus opposition on election day November 4. He describes events combining in “horrific concert” during this period. He expects gold to rally to a high between June 25 and June 30. He expects oil to weaken after the olympics. Long term he remains bullish on inflation hedges. Similar predictions of intermediate weakenss and long term bullishness for metals and energy are shared by silver analyst David Morganand utilities/energy analyst Roger Conrad. So we might hope for a lull before the next, even greater storm.

A recent quote form Chris Low of FTN Financial:

“Oil last night hit $142. It is trading at $141.50 now. The floods in the Midwest are now boosting gas prices, because the corn price has risen enough to lift the cost of ethanol production to $4, which is too high to justify production and the ethanol plants are shutting down. Because Congress mandates a certain amount of ethanol in gasoline blends, this is expected to cut into gasoline production, forcing the price up until ethanol production makes economic sense again. Say hello to $5 gas. (Already available in CT and CA.)”

Is there a pheromone that will prevent people from voting for morons? I think it is our only hope!

I read an article the other day that says RBS is quietly warning of a world wide stock and credit crash.:angry:

Here you go, Mtnjim (I emailed this to all my friends about a week ago) -

RBS issues global stock and credit crash alert

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, International Business Editor

Last Updated: 12:19am BST 19/06/2008

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/06/18/cnrbs118.xml#comments)
The Royal Bank of Scotland has advised clients to brace for a full-fledged crash in global stock and credit markets over the next three months as inflation paralyses the major central banks.

“A very nasty period is soon to be upon us - be prepared,” said Bob Janjuah, the bank’s credit strategist.

A report by the bank’s research team warns that the S&P 500 index of Wall Street equities is likely to fall by more than 300 points to around 1050 by September as “all the chickens come home to roost” from the excesses of the global boom, with contagion spreading across Europe and emerging markets.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/graphics/2008/06/18/rbs.jpg

RBS warning: Be prepared for a ‘nasty’ period
Such a slide on world bourses would amount to one of the worst bear markets over the last century.
RBS alert: Quotes from the report
Fund managers react to RBS alert (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/06/18/cmstockmarket18.xml)
Support for the euro is in doubt (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/06/13/cneuro113.xml) RBS said the iTraxx index of high-grade corporate bonds could soar to 130/150 while the “Crossover” index of lower grade corporate bonds could reach 650/700 in a renewed bout of panic on the debt markets.
“I do not think I can be much blunter. If you have to be in credit, focus on quality, short durations, non-cyclical defensive names.
Cash is the key safe haven. This is about not losing your money, and not losing your job,” said Mr Janjuah, who became a City star after his grim warnings last year about the credit crisis proved all too accurate.
RBS expects Wall Street to rally a little further into early July before short-lived momentum from America’s fiscal boost begins to fizzle out, and the delayed effects of the oil spike inflict their damage.
“Globalisation was always going to risk putting G7 bankers into a dangerous corner at some point. We have got to that point,” he said.
US Federal Reserve and the European Central Bank both face a Hobson’s choice as workers start to lose their jobs in earnest and lenders cut off credit.
The authorities cannot respond with easy money because oil and food costs continue to push headline inflation to levels that are unsettling the markets. “The ugly spoiler is that we may need to see much lower global growth in order to get lower inflation,” he said.
Morgan Stanley warns of catastrophe (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/06/16/bcnecb116.xml)
More comment and analysis from the Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?menuId=242&menuItemId=8846&view=SUMMARY&grid=F5&targetRule=0) “The Fed is in panic mode. The massive credibility chasms down which the Fed and maybe even the ECB will plummet when they fail to hike rates in the face of higher inflation will combine to give us a big sell-off in risky assets,” he said.
Kit Jukes, RBS’s head of debt markets, said Europe would not be immune. "Economic weakness is spreading and the latest data on consumer demand and confidence are dire. The ECB is hell-bent on raising rates.
“The political fall-out could be substantial as finance ministers from the weaker economies rail at the ECB. Wider spreads between the German Bunds and peripheral markets seem assured,” he said.
Ultimately, the bank expects the oil price spike to subside as the more powerful force of debt deflation takes hold next year.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/06/18/cnrbs118.xml

Oil is overvalued. The only way they can get stuff under control is for Benanke to raise interest rates to pop the commodities market bubble. He doesn’t have the balls to do that, that’s my guess.

I agree with Daedelus about Benanke (Helicopter Ben). He is not going to do what is necessary to rein in inflation and support the dollar. If he did what Paul Volker did during the Regan administration there would be worse than the sharp recession of the early eighties. Financial markets are further out of balance and debt is much greater. But the longer the Fed waits the worse the recession/depression will be when it happens. Benanke’s talk of a strong dollar is now perceived as a bluff, and with the Fed losing credibility, things could unravel quickly – most likely severe stagflation.

I’m not a registered financial adviser or anything, but here’s what I see. Do your own due diligence. If you have any savings or investments, you want to take action immediately to protect yourself from the possibility a collapsing dollar and/or crashing financial markets. Consider something with intrinsic value such as physical gold, silver. Money in savings accounts, CDs, money market funds, cash, bonds, etc. is just going to loose purchasing power, perhaps rapidly. If you are in the stock market, index funds such as S&P 500 funds are vulnerable to market crashes plus they are denominated in dollars which are losing value. If you feel insistent about staying in fixed income investments, consider Canadian federal bonds which, of course, are denominated Canadian dollars, a much more stable currency these days. Stock market investments that will probably increase faster than the inflation rate include energy and mining and food production. But you have to ask whether your banker/broker is safe.

Jim Sinclair has gone so far as to recommend that people take delivery of paper stock certificates. That would be an inconvenience for most of us and quite a burden for those of us who would have to close out IRAs, 401k’s etc. Sinclair is not a fool. At least pay attention to the headline financial news. If your broker is one of those institutions that has been in the news recently reporting multibillion dollar losses, consisder transferring your account elsewhere. I have heard persistent rumors of at least one major international bank failure within the next several months.

If you think your accounts are insured, consider who the insurer is and whether they can actually afford to cover multiple bank failures. If you are eventually paid off, when and how will that happen? Bankruptcy proceedings can take forever and government backed insurance is subject to Congress changing the rules during a financial emergency. Getting paid off years later in worhless dollars or government bonds would be like getting paid off in Confederate money at the end of the Civil War.

I disagree with Daedelus about oil being overvalued. It is undervalued. There is no bubble. As T. Boone Pickens put it recently, there is 87 billion barrles of demand per day and 85 million barrels of production. The difference has been made up by running down inventories. Those inventories are now thin to nonexistant. A similar situation now exists with base metals, precious metals and grain. The emerging middle classes in China, India and elsewhere have increased the demand for automobiles, energy, decent housing and an improved diet. Production of energy, raw materials and food has flattened and demand continues to increase. The earth was designed for 500 million people and now has billions. We have reached the tipping point. Monetary inflation will increase the cost of everything, but resource costs will rise faster than the inflation rate.

In the short term the government will try to manipulate the markets downward. The Commodity Futures Trading Commission has been granted emergency powers. We’ll see what they do. They will try to bring gasoline prices down but if they do it will likely result in shortages – gas lines. Keep your tank topped off. Whatever they do can only have short term effects. A government bureaucrasy cannot increase fuel production. The CFTC does not own any oil wells. They will most likely chase commodity traders off shore where ultimaely they will have eve less influence. TPTB are now in panic mode.

I should probably just include the link for this past week’s story in the Telegraph

Barclays warns of a financial storm as Federal Reserve’s credibility crumbles

Barclays warns of a financial storm as Federal Reserve’s credibility crumbles - Telegraph

Some level of gas rationing should have already been instituted. Again, the government doesn’t have the balls to make effective changes to deal with a crisis. The people who are playing games with the commodities markets shouldn’t be allowed to get away with it, the government does have tools it can use to deal with this. Instead we are falling back on the same tired rhetoric of domestic drilling vs. renewable fuels, when the focus should be on cutting demanding.

You’re starting to frighten me here, Daedelus. You’re not gonna go communist on us are you? The government should be like an unpire in a baseball game; make sure everyone plays by the same rules. The government should not be deciding the score or picking winers and losers. That is old communist style central plannning and has an appallingly bad track record.

The financial markets have been extremely poorly regulated during the past two administrations. The SEC, CFTC, FBI have turned a blind eye to blatant manipulation and the worst kinds of fraud and corruption. They don’t need any new laws, regulations or powers. They just need to do their job, without political interferrence, which they have neither the will nor the staffing to do. You and I, Daedelus, seem to disagree on whether market speculators are manipulating the price of energy upwards. I think they are surprised by the current situation as much as anyone. The market manipulators are so obsessed with the technical details which they try to control that they are getting blind-sided by overwhelming global demand. Watch for the coming short squeeze in junior mining stocks! A lot of arrogant market cheats are going to be destroyed by what they connot foresee or control.

I don’t see your problem with domestic drilling or renewable fuels. They will take time to come to fruition. They should have begun years ago. That is a reason to start as soon as possible. It sounds like you have been listening to political demagogs rather than thinking this through. We are going to need as many sources of energy as possible. It is not a question of which; it is a matter developing as many sources as possible.

Unfortunately you cannot fly a 747 with solar panels or dive a UPS truck with windmills. Most alternatives do not solve the liquid fuels transportation problem. You saw how badly the corn based ethanol thing has played out. In the short term nothing but increased drilling is going to ameliorate the situation and that’s going to proceed way too slowly. The government really needs to remove as many road blocks as possible.

If it is rationing you want you are going to get it. I hope the inevitably lower demand is the result of market forces rather than direct government intervention. You are already seeing people drive less, cancel vacactions and take public transportation. This will continue to be the case as gas prices increase. Unfortuantely lower energy use from America is not going to reduce energy costs. Despite our arrogance, American energy use is a very small part of the global supply and demand picture. Lower energy use is simply giong to reduce our standard of living compared to the rest of the world. That is not what I want.

Monday, May 1st, 2006
The US Government’s Secret Colorado Oil Discovery

Rense
Hidden 1,000 feet beneath the surface of the Rocky Mountains lies the largest untapped oil reserve in the world - more than 2 TRILLION barrels. On August 8, 2005 President Bush mandated its extraction. Three companies have been chosen to lead the way. Test drilling has already begun
Dear Reader,
Five months ago, the U.S. Energy Department announced the results of a land survey
It was conducted to determine the official amount of oil a thousand feet deep in the Rocky Mountains
They reported this stunning news:
We have more oil inside our borders, than all the other proven reserves on earth.
Here are the official estimates:
* 8-times as much oil as Saudi Arabia
* 18-times as much oil as Iraq
* 21-times as much oil as Kuwait
* 22-times as much oil as Iran
* 500-times as much oil as Yemen
And it’s all right here in the Western United States.
James Bartis, lead researcher with the study says, “We’ve got more oil in this very compact area than the entire Middle East.”
More than 2 TRILLION barrels. Untapped.
“That’s more than all the proven oil reserves of crude oil in the world today,” reports The Denver Post.
When asked about America’s least-publicized oil supply, Utah Senator Orrin Hatch said:
“The amounts of oil are staggering. Who would have guessed that in just Colorado and Utah, there is more recoverable oil than in the Middle East?”
Here’s the kicker
The U.S. government already owns the land. It’s been right there under our noses the whole time.
In fact, the government’s appointed a small group of companies to begin the drilling.
Test drilling has already begun.
And the profit forecasts are ridiculous. According to the RAND Corporation (a public-policy think tank for the government), this small region can produce:
Three million barrels of oil per day That translates into more than $20 BILLION a year.
These are the conservative estimates. The U.S. Energy Dept. estimates an eventual output of 10 million barrels of oil per day. At that rate, the money flow would be even greater.
I’ve written this letter to tell you everything I’ve learned about this rarely publicized oil reserve who’s drilling it and how to get a piece of the world’s biggest, untapped oil supply - before it’s too late.
Here’s the full story
The Next American Oil Boom
There’s a new source of oil in the American West.
Today, it sits idle - untapped - inside more than 16,000 square miles of rock and sand.
Geologists call what lies in this region, oil shale.
What is oil shale?

How do you know I’m not halfway there already? Markets aren’t rational, they make mistakes. They are governed by human emotions and don’t always act in rational ways. Having somebody step in and demand some sanity isn’t always a bad thing.

I have no problem with them, but the idea though that will free us from high gas prices seems cornucopean/overly optimistic.

This is mostly affecting poor and lower middle class at this point, though. I don’t think it’s very fair to push the burden of high oil prices onto the poor and people less capable of dealing with the consequences. Fuel rationing would be much more fair and would spread the burden equally over society.

I disagree. I think alot of Americans spend money on things that don’t enhance our standard of living or quality of life. Most of us have become slaves to our automobiles, and they’ve never quite lived up to the promise of freedom and all the other marketting. Before the advent of the car in the US, gasoline was worthless patent medicine sold in pharmacies, in fact initially people bought gasoline at drugstores and not gas stations. The real push for automobiles in the US came from the oil industry, which wanted an outlet for a previously worthless byproduct of kerosine and diesel distillation. So they encouraged cities to trash mass-transportation projects and sell the automobile as “all-American”.

The oil and auto industries have made very cozy bedfellows for sure, to the point that nobody questions their influence in our government, at all levels, and anybody who questions their supremacy is considered “un-American”. On the contrary, rational proposals such as community bicycling are made the subject of ridicule on the floor of Congress, with emotional arguements made implying that bicycles are “19th century solutions”, discounting the fact that Benz and Maybach created the automobile in the same century as the bicycle :slight_smile:

Mtnjim mentions oil shales, which have their own problems. They aren’t very carbon-neutral solutions, for one thing. They require alot of energy to extra the oil from the rocks- it’s not going to be as cheap as regular oil, that’s certain.

For those of you who know who Harry Schultz is, here is his recent warning:

Harry Schultz

June 27, 2008

•• SPECIAL ALERT: as warned for many months a major global “upheaval” is in progress – spurred by the one-two punch of run-away inflation & a collapse of the derivatives/credit markets – which will affect everyone. Many banks are at risk. Investors who continue to procrastinate or wait optimistically for storm clouds to dissipate, will in the main, see their assets deflate radically & at best risk losing much or most of their net buying power &/or capital. If not already done so, we urge that U immediately reduce financial risk via 3 basic steps: exit the US$ (or hedge exposure to US$ assets of any kind via futures short selling &/or bank forward contacts), place approx ½ of your assets into a mix of 90-day to 2-year govt bills/bonds (Swiss govt paper preferred, but any (non-US$) 1st world govt paper OK), place almost ½ of your assets in gold (via a basket of gold futures &/or quality gold shares, with at least 15% in physical gold bars or coins). A small position in oil/food/comod stocks & special situations is justified.

Good luck to us all,
Uncle Harry & team

You must really hate poor people, Daedelus. They are about to escape slavery and you want the government to step in and return them to their captors? I don’t think you can tell us that lowered energy consumption is a good thing and then claim it is a burden for the poor!

You don’t trust human emotions. You don’t trust markets. But you trust politicians to know what prices are supposed to be?

You really need to rethink this part. First, how do you know markets make mistakes. You have some metaphysical guide to the absolute correct value of something? If so we can throw out capitalism, communism, socalism and all the other -isms and institute economic utopia this afternoon. I don’t think you do.

I think you want to reconsider your disdain for human emotions. They are the ultimate guide to how much we value something. Furthermore, life is not static and it is normal and proper for emotions and values to fluctuate.

At any rate, politicians are humans who are influenced by human emotions. The reactions of investors are influenced by how much they value the commodities or financial instraments they buy or sell. The actions of politicians are influenced by a lust for power which has nothing to do with the actual underlying value of the assets which they are trying to price. Exchanging markets for political caprice is a catastrophically bad deal. Always has been. There is no economic sanity in political expediency. There is nothing insane about buyer and seller making an exchange at an agreed upon price.

Maybe he knows the power of greed and stupidity. The only purpose of markets (business) is to maximize profits, no matter who gets f#@ked.

I’m no libertarian. If a government rules with the consent of the governed, then it’s not slavery. In the end, in a democracy, people get the government they vote for.

I use ethics to determine what I value, not emotions. Ethics derives from the fact that every action a human being takes has consequences, and all humans have value or interests in themselves. A person doesn’t cease having value or interests simply because they don’t experience the same emotions I do.

This is why we need very dry, boring committees of politicians, businessmen, and economists to decide things, and not so much unregulated free markets. You know, C-Span fodder. When people discuss things in a way open to criticism, they can be more rational than millions of consumers and investors who are all going with their guts, often times all thinking/doing the same things because of the way humans socialize and interact. Most people don’t want to stand out from the crowd, if everybody’s buying Enron stocks or McMansions in California or Florida, nobody wants to feel like the odd man out.

according to my limited macro economics background, I’d say yes,the bubble will burst and its going to be a mighty big one.

I haven’t driven my car for almost 3 weeks now (gas-guzzler), and it’s getting rusty already :smiley:

K- you are in Australia, right? How are gas/petrol prices there?

terrible.

Petrol price rises to worry RBA: CommSec - Breaking News - Business - Breaking News
Gulfnews: Australian truckers protest against rising fuel costs
Petrol protest causes F3 chaos - National - smh.com.au

it would cost me about 100 bucks per week for petrol, so i decided to use public transport, it sucks but hey better than walking…