Now that a fair number of you have a variety of dosed pheromones in hand, it would be ideal if as a community we could report results on all known pheromones along the dosage curve. Both in terms of social effect, and intensity.
-None’s effective curve is narrow but deep. Kirk-Smith and Booth’s experiment placed 3.2, 16 and 32 mcg of -none on dentist’s chairs and recorded how many women and men sat in them. More women sat on the chairs at 3.2 and 32 (leaving a dimple on the response curve at 16), whereas men avoided the chairs most at 32.
Pheromones like beta-nol have a very wide curve, with different expressed social effects (we perceive it as different effects, anyway), not merely different intensity. The perceived social dynamics and the experience is different at 10mcg than 100mcg.
Collectively, we can record everything far and wide, and in multiple contexts. We can determine not simply intensity over the curve, but actual changes in the overall macro-effects produced.
Right, when using super high amounts, sometimes you don’t get the “character” of a pheromone, as much as you sometimes seem to get something else entirely.
I think it’s because when you’re overexposed to some pheromones, it’ll “drown out” the others.
Let me figure out how to explain this…
We still don’t know what receptors (keyholes) pheromones are fitting into, but normal body chemistry works the same way. You can block some of the body’s chemicals from having an effect by flooding the body with certain agonists (keys).
Bodybuilders do this by taking supplments that “bind” (fit into) the estrogen receptors (keyholes), blocking real estrogens from fitting in and turning they key. That’s how they prevent themselves from getting too fat, or taking on female characteristics.
Blocking action can be as important as actually “doing something” on their own.
So there’s not only the effect a certain chemical has, there’s the effect is has when it blocks other chemicals from doing their job. It appears that some pheromones do this at heavy concentration.
I’ve also seen some pheromones take on a different character when used in neglible amounts.
So there’s a “sweet spot” when you get the normal, preferred and often well known character of pheromones. i.e., androstenol being “friendly”.
Then there’s a more sublt and sometimes different effect when they’re used in what would SEEM like negligible amounts.
Finally, there’s a seemingly different chracter entirely when used in high “overdose” amounts.
It’s just like saying there’s lots of shades of personality… there’s shades of chemical personalities, too.
You need a minimal amount of vitamins to not get scurvy, for instance, but you can often use large amounts to extend your life, or give you more energy, or what have you. Different character emerges at different dosages.
Perhaps one way of saying it is that the effects aren’t “linear” or a straight line, but have “spikes” here and there???
It’s also my understanding that the “effects” one gets from each pheromone can vary depending on one’s own body chemistry and other factors, so that a “graph” of a pheromones effects along the “quantity of dosage” line won’t be identical from person to person. But have you noticed if the results are at least similar? Does a “x” dosage level pretty much always result in “y” response more or less universally?
I know one common error “newbies” make is to assume that more is better, when in reality often the less the better. And as fo a vitamin example comparison how about Vitamin A is good at a certain level, but becomes toxic at higher levels.
There are spikes, yes, but “saturation point” is another concept.
There’s only so many receptors that different pheromones may basically “compete” for.
If you use tons of just one pheromone, you not only see the effects of that pheromone, but you also see what happens when you stop other pheromones (including the natural ones on your body) from having whatever effect they normally have.
It’s like the difference between getting your water from the faucet in a controlled manner, and being FLOODED.
Either way, you’re dealing with the water, but the QUANTITY sure as heck changes how you feel about it!! (and this reminds me of our poor friends down in New Orleans; more of a good thing is not always a blessing)
Depends on the pheromone.
You take a bath in alpha androstenol (figuratively or literally speaking), and you’ll be sending people into mental lala land, most definitely.
The effects of pheromones such as these seem almost universal, but with a few exceptions here and there (beta-nol actually seems attractive to very young women, whereas for most people, it is involved almost exclusively in the quality and intimacy of communication, and is not sexual whatsoever)
It’s ones like androstenone that are much harder to plot. The effects seem predicated by a woman’s age, place in her cycle, race (or blood type - both are merely genetic indicators), and past history.
Some younger women seem "-none’ averse, however, but that’s usually not true if they’re say, Spanish, or have a history of liking really edgy men (in terms of celebs, think Courtney Love).
It’s highly erogenous to almost any woman who’s “clock is ticking”.
In terms of evolutionary psychology, -none is primary component of the signature of the “bad boy” who gets all the ladies pregnant, and doesn’t stick around to take care of any of the kids.
Just enough is enough.
Let’s use water as an example again.
Now water is a good thing. Almost everyone knows that clean water is very healthy, and if you don’t drink enough, your health suffers. You could even die.
You drink 8-16 glasses a day, and you feel good. You’re getting the right amount of this wonderful, life giving liquid.
Drink a couple of gallons really fast, you suffer, and yes, you can die (by knocking off your osmotic balance).
People have called Poison Control, been told to drink lots of water to flush poisons out their system, and actually ended up dying by drinking “too much” too fast of this “life giving” fluid.
Anything becomes toxic and “less than desirable” when used in too high a quantity.
I think this is true of many androstenone based products. Even one drop of some will give you this sort of attack/war dose of -none. On the other hand, I think androstenol products could stand to get stronger.
I’ve worked very hard to make our products strong, but not so unbalanced per spray or drop that someone will screw things up for themselves by using too much.
i think this is a great thread to periodically bring up with newbies such as myself around, i understand the concept but refering to it reminds me why im getting the results (or lack there of ) . of course, it just makes me want to experiment more ( im willing to quit my day job hahaha) but something tells me -due to the biggest change i see using the same pheromones in same amts on a different diet- that food is a big player with me in particular.
i know i read in another thread that using pheromones doesnt affect your own personal output… but im not understanding how that is possible when i use 'mones to affect myself, i know that i am putting out more when im feeling good (i mean GOOOOOD). any clarification? TY!
You remind me of an important point Lor. I’m having a heck of a time trying to figure out effects based on the product and dosages. But I also know I have to deal with:
A) the weather/seasonal changes (temperature and humidity eg)
B) my own physical state of health
C) my “targets” state of health (and with women, cycle)
and
D) as I’m also varying some of my medications/suppliments and diet (foods) who knows how that is effecting my body chemistry.
Also I still seem to be stuck in a “target poor” environment which limits my ability to test and observe.
Rbt, is your environment the workplace? Do you have a city area you can go to with clubs and bars? I always find the city the perfect place to go.. women are everywhere in Seattle and alot of them are hot hot hot =)
No clubs to speak of. At least of an “adult” nature. (there are teen hangouts of sorts).
Bars are disgustiing. Most are “workmans bars” if you know what I mean.
“City” too far away and expensive (2 hours).
We do have a large military base nearby (maybe 30 minures), but we’re talking 20-somethings. I need 30+ somethings. Plus the area around it is pretty scummy.
Night schools are sparse, and costly, and around here most only offer things like English as a Second Language…
ive been a bartender a good part of my life. the majority of the time was in a blue-collar bar. ive worked in,say, westchase ( i know YOU know that area) and i hated the fake way people behaved. back to my blue-collar bar . i met people in it that are closer to me than some family-members. some of them will be in my life forever. i wouldnt trade a blue collar bar for anything
I was speaking of the bars in my area. Few are condusive to female customers especially in the age range I seek (30-45ish). Many are places you don’t want to be after dark (there were a couple I had to visit as part of one of my jobs that were dubious even during the day…). Yes, there are some darned good ones here, but they are very few and far betweeen, and the best ones do better at attracting marrieds or couples, not singles (exept for male singles)… darn it. I have two (now three but I haven’t had time to check it out [Hispanic oriented]) within walking distance. One caters mostly to the office lunch crowd in the afternoons and families in the evening, the other is pretty much males only. Plus I’ve never felt comfortable in bars.
I have a question regarding adverse effects. People have talked about “self effects” of pheromones, OD-ing, and head rushes. Also, there was a post/article about how nursing mothers use (natural) pheromones to bond with their newborns: Using Pheromones for Attraction and Bonding
Are there potential negative, long-term side effects? Over time, one will become used to the pheromone signature and might have to up the dose or mix it up a bit to get the same effects, but are there any serious ones?? After readings the posts (my package comes in the mail tomorrow!) it seems pheromones are very potent and very serious stuff- very drug-like. Just wondering if you (or anyone) knows anything about long-term effects (eg. like messing up neuropathways/receptors, any effects while breast feeding, etc.). Thanks!
Yes, in fact, that is the crucial concept behind some anti-depressants and the drug Ecstasy. I’m not a medical doctor, and thus I may have some concepts improperly understood. Please correct me if I am wrong.
But to the best of my knowledge both work by the principle of blocking your serotonin re uptake. Anti-depressants prevent serotonin from being broken down as quickly and Ecstasy prevents serotonin from being re uptaken and broken down by actually using those pathways in reverse and flooding your brain with more serotonin. If Ecstasy allowed for the breaking down of serotonin, the effects would probably not be as potent ever, or perhaps would require much high doses to achieve even similar effects.
In any case, it’s an interesting proposal to try and generate such data, but how do you propose keeping data consistent? I realize this entire site is filled with subjective reports, but subjective reports of interactions are more flexible when it comes to personal bias. On top of the already aforementioned factors, a lot of times the situation involves alcohol and over time, the case is generally that more alcohol is consumed. That in itself is a big factor as alcohol as long been hailed as the social lubricant for the masses.
I suppose maybe all this is simply begging the question.
) . of course, it just makes me want to experiment more ( im willing to quit my day job hahaha) but something tells me -due to the biggest change i see using the same pheromones in same amts on a different diet- that food is a big player with me in particular.