My husband is 40 years old, and in the past year his sex drive has dwindled to almost nothing. His belief is that this is due to a decrease in his testosterone production.
He has made dietary changes, takes vitamins, eats a lot of protein (we eat paleo), and exercises about 5 times per week, and is very fit. None of the changes seem to have had any effect on the sex drive, or lack thereof.
I have used pheromones for a few years, including copulins. I understand exposure to copulins is supposed to increase a man’s testosterone production. Again, no noticeable difference in his reactions. I can count on my hands the number of times we have been intimate in the past year. This is one lonely girl, and I’m getting desperate for answers. Any thoughts you have are appreciated.
Definately have your husband go to an endocrinologist to get his testosterone levels tested. I don’t trust the testing from my regular md as he was basing what normal is on what is normal for my age which is lower than what I wanted it to be. You probably want his levels to be that of a mid 20’s and he probably does too!
while I agree about the testosterone levels, I must disagree about going to an endocrinolotist, based on personal experience.
Nearly ALL endocrinologists have no idea how to manage male hormones. The two endocrinologists I went to were more interested in my sperm count and motility than they were in making me FEEL good. At the time, I was single and not dating - I could not have cared less about my sperm count.
They also do not know what tests need to be run for checking a man for low testosterone. In addition to testing for total testosterone, a man needs to have these tests run:
Total Testosterone
Bioavailable Testosterone (AKA “Free and Loosely Bound”)
Free Testosterone (if Bioavailable T is unavailable)
SHBG
DHT (perhaps)
Estradiol (specify “sensitive” assay for males)
LH
FSH
Prolactin
Cortisol
Thyroid Panel
CBC
Comprehensive Metabolic Panel
Lipid Profile
PSA (age dependent)
Again, take it from me - most endocrinologists willingly check testosterone levels, but if they don’t also check estradiol levels (before and after prescribing testosterone gel or injections), here’s what happens: say a man has a testosterone level of 199 in a range of normal being 300-1000. “Oh, you’re low in T,” the doc says. “I’ll prescribe an every other week injection of testosterone cypionate.” So you begin testosterone treatment. A few days after the first injection, you feel like a new man. But then a week later, you feel even WORSE than you did before. Why? Because the testosterone is converted to estrogen, which can make you feel like crap if it’s too high. [ASIDE: men in our society frequently have high estrogen levels due to environmental factors and age.]
Or another scenario: you begin your every other week testosterone injections. At first you feel great, but way before the next shot is due, you feel terrible again. Why? Because a man’s testosterone cycles on an hourly basis. Injecting every 14 days puts you on a roller coaster ride of feeling great, then horrible, then great, then horrible. I currently inject testosterone twice a week, in addition to injecting Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG).
I have been on testosterone treatment for secondary hypogonadism for 15 years. The only doctor I trust in this area is Dr. John Crisler, a DO who specializes in male hormone replacement therapy. Fortunately, he works with men no matter what state they live in (he’s in Lansing, Michigan) by 1) ordering labwork from your local lab, 2) assessing the lab results, diagnosing the condition and recommending treatment, 3) ordering 1 month follow up labwork to see how the body is responding to the treatment and adjusting accordingly, and 4) following up every six months.
Another problem with most endocrinologists is that if they do prescribe injections, they want you to inject in major muscles, like your glutes. This acerbates the conversion of T to E. A recent innovation by Dr. John has been to inject T sub-q (subcutaneous).
I will never willingly go back to my pre-treatment days. I am 54 and have a good sex drive (read my journal, lol!), am able to have two orgasms a day when my wife and I have the privacy, time, and opportunity, and have no problems with erection quality.
The OP should do herself and her husband a favor and check out All Things Male - Center for Men’s Health, Dr. Crisler’s website. Dr. Crisler will also act as a consultant if requested. You can poke around his forum for a lot of information, or make an appointment for a preliminary phone consultation to see if he believes treatment is called for.
BTW, a DO is a Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine. A DO goes to med school just like an MD, with a broader focus on “holistic care”. Both an MD and DO are board-certified physicians.
PS - why the HCG, you ask? Isn’t that the diet fad drug? Yes, it is, but one esthetic issue men have with getting testosterone treatment is that a man’s testicles usually shrink - the body says, “I have plenty of testosterone, I don’t need these testicles!”. Most men do not like having shrinking balls. HCG prevents the testicular atrophy and contributes to a man’s sense of wellbeing, and some say it increases libido and ejaculate volume as well. I don’t know for sure about the volume issue (but suspect it does increase volume), but it does increase my libido. I had to fight like hell with my insurance company to have them cover the prescription, thanks to all the HCG diet fraud, but was ultimately successful.
Keep in mind the diet HCG you see sold online will NOT do this. You have to get pharmaceutical grade and inject it.
By the way the diet is not a fraud. I have seen it work for hundreds of people perfectly. The problem is there are a lot of fraudulent companies out there just like in the pheromone world.
MoonlightBliss I agree about the endocrinologist. Don’t go LOL. Find a good naturopath or FMP your area. In most states they can prescribe bioidentical drugs that will help. I don’t know what state your in so when you call before you make the appointment ask if they can prescribe them. Keep in mind most insurance companies will not cover the appointment.
If you do a search in the lounge area there are a lot of other suggestions for natural supplements that can help as well if you want to try that route first.
I respectfully disagree. The HCG diet works because it’s a 500 calorie a day diet, along with meals consisting only of fruits and vegetables. Anyone who follows that diet - with or without HCG - will lose weight.
…and here’s another which concludes:
“We have tested these [weight loss] claims in a double-blind randomized trial using injections of HCG or placebo. Weight loss was identical between the two groups, and there was no evidence for differential effects on hunger, mood or localized body measurements. Placebo injections, therefore, appear to be as effective as HCG in the treatment of obesity.” Human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG) in the treatme… [West J Med. 1977] - PubMed - NCBI
I can find hundreds of old studies that say pheromones don’t work in humans to but here we all are and we know they work.
My self and my group tend to like to test for ourselves and come to our own conclusions instead of being one of the sheeple believing studies funded by the FDA and Big Pharma.
You are free to believe what you like. I will believe what I have experienced and know. So we will have to agree to disagree
I am currently looking into replacement therapy, and have lucked up on meeting two people that have been on it for the past 10+ years. You are the third. I have already talked to a doctor, and he’s charging 3,400 for blood work, and a shot per week for a year.
The other two talked about that roller coaster ride, and BOTH said that they cut the does, take half the two week does one week, and the other half the next, and felt great without having to deal with that ride.
I talked with one of those two on Saturday, and he informed me that he is now splitting that HALF DOES up, too! Splitting the half dosage with two shots a week, and feels even better!
The doctor I talked to to get the info from said he gives his shots weekly, not every two weeks. You may wanna look into to that. FOOD FOR THOUGHT, ONLY.
I’m nervous about trying the therapy, but I WANT that hunger I no longer have. I still have erections, but I no longer thing about killing something/making someone tap out/pin her down/swing from the ceiling onto the bed ready to do Jane/serve it like a man, is my thinking. I was thinking that the therapy would give me that back.
As for the lady who started this thread: There are so many variables that comes into play. From health, to cheating, to stress, to things that were once HOT, FRESH and NEW becoming OLD and ROUTINE. A lot of people can’t handle the boredom of ROUTINE. When things get old, sometimes, it can be helped/fixed, and sometimes it can’t. The BEST of luck to you.
Tisha, you can believe what you want, but bear in mind several things:
despite your insinuation that I am “one of the sheeple believing studies funded by the FDA and Big Pharma”, my experience comes as a direct result of having used HCG for over a decade, and interacting on a regular basis with many other men who also use HCG.
my belief also comes from my doctor who specializes in male hormones, who has stated that "It’s a scam. The “HCG Diet” absolutely does not work without starvation-level caloric intake.
Want proof? I put thousands of men on HCG at the exact same dose they recommend, and none have reported phenomenal weight loss, or that they can now eat whatever they want, because their “hypothalamus is reset”.
It is basically putting everyone on TRT whether they are hypogonadal or not. The added T makes them feel better.
Because of those dieters the FDA put warnings on all HCG packaging and inserts that says to the effect that HCG does not decrease appetite nor help in weight reduction in any way. This warning is in bold and stands out most clearly from all other text.
If they are injecting massive quantities of HCG and they are men they are inducing secondary hypogonadism and if not careful primary as well"
So I stand by my belief, which is based on credible scientific research, the expert opinion of my doctor, and the experiences of men like me who have used HCG for years.
Because of people who believe that the HCG diet works due to the HCG, and not because of the starvation-level caloric intake, legitimate users of HCG for medical reasons have seen the price of prescription HCG increase, have had to wait months while HCG is backordered, and have had prescriptions denied due to the increased non-legitimate use of the medication. I had to go six months without while wrangling with my insurance company over whether my prescription was based on a medical condition - which it is.
I’m curious - why do you say “Keep in mind the diet HCG you see sold online will NOT do this. You have to get pharmaceutical grade and inject it.” and yet your profile links to an online site selling oral HCG?
As to your assertion that you “can find hundreds of old studies that say pheromones don’t work” - I prefer to do my research on Pubmed. In researching pheromones on that site, I did not find a single study that said pheromones don’t work - instead I found the opposite:
“Several studies indicate that humans indeed seem to use olfactory communication and are even able to produce and perceive certain pheromones; recent studies have found that pheromones may play an important role in the behavioural and reproduction biology of humans.” Human pheromones and sexual… [Eur J Obstet Gynecol Reprod Biol. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI
I realize that you believe that the HCG diet works because of the HCG, but unless you have yourself undertaken the diet, and did so with and without using HCG for comparison, then in reality you do not KNOW that HCG works for weightloss - you BELIEVE that it works. The difference is huge.
Again, I’m sure the HCG diet works - but it has little or nothing to do with HCG.
Finally, Tisha, your use of an ad-hominem attack does nothing to help your argument, and in fact belittles it. Unless you have a reason to believe that the study I referenced (The effect of human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG) in the treatment of obesity by means of the Simeons therapy: a criteria-based meta-analysis.), which was undertaken at the Institute for Research in Extramural Medicine, Faculty of Medicine, Vrije Universiteit, Amsterdam, The Netherlands, was funded by “Big Pharma”, than your insinuation that I am “one of the sheeple believing studies funded by the FDA and Big Pharma” is not only irrelevant but reflects poorly on you.
But hey - nothing personal, seriously. You’re very helpful to many people here, and it would be fun to get together over coffee or beer and discuss this in person. Or maybe we could go bowling, lol! I welcome you opinions and discussion, but it looks like we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one.
Seriously? Does he charge that directly? My insurance pays the vast majority of my lab fees. I have certainly never paid anything like that.
Ultimately, a testosterone pump would be ideal, releasing the T into the blood in a similar manner as the body does. A man’s body cycles T throughout the day, typically with T being higher in the morning and lower in the evening, but it’s extremely variable based on environmental factors.
I had weekly shots for nearly ten years, and only in the past six months has the doctor instituted his new bi-weekly sub-q protocol.
Can’t help you there. I’ve never been that way, but have probably been hypogonadic since adolescence, and have definitely been hypothyroid since before I was 18. T can help with erections, libido, energy, brain fog, depression, weight loss, muscle tone, and mood - but whether it will make you get that original teen-age hunger back, I can’t say. Some things, once you get old, never revert to how they were. I wish I could say otherwise!
Thanks. I appreciate the comments that are not specifically scientific in nature…there are so many variables in life that ultimately he is the only one who could pinpoint what is happening.
I was talking about your for testosterone levels not the diet. You would need shots to level out hormones. A lot of the stuff online is crap to but you can say that for pheromones as well. You need to know where to look.
I am not disagreeing that HCG does what you say it does for males testosterone levels, I am disagreeing with your take on the diet. As for pheromones obviously you don’t know who your talking to because your preaching to the choir and I was just using that as a example. You don’t need to show me the studies. I am quite familiar with Pud Med. If that’s the only place your researching then I encourage you to expand that though. It is a government site and they show you what they want you to see. Don’t get me wrong I love my country and government but I think greed and stupidity have blinded them in some areas. But that’s a whole different subject LOL
No I didn’t say believe I said I know. Yes there is a difference.
Myself and many others (some here) have tested the low calorie diet both with HCG and without HCG and we have all seen significant difference between taking it and not taking it. Also have tested it at a higher caloric intake. I have coached well over 30 people on it who have tried everything else including starvation with no luck. When done correctly it works. Its not for everyone. I am much more in favor of a balanced approach to weight lose and tend to preach balance in all areas of life but when something I have tested works I share the info. I am not trying to sell you on it. The link in my signature is not a sales link.
My pet pev is people (not you personally) claiming something works or doesn’t work when they never tried it or haven’t tried it correctly. I get the same way when people say mones don’t work. I understand you have used HCG however taking HCG for your hormone levels is a far cry from using it to lose adipose tissue.
The problem I have with all the pharmaceutical studies on the HCG protocol is when they did those studies they didn’t follow the protocol written and tested by Dr Simeons. Therefore they never really tested it.
Nothing personal on my end either Jake, to each his/her own I always say. If we ever meet I would be happy to have a beer with you and beat the pants off you at bowling
Now back to discussing Moonlightbliss’s question. I don’t want to hijack her thread anymore then we have. My apologies for that.
Yes, you have to shove in all the variables anytime you’re dealing with such situations while looking for the WHYs.
That is NOT 100% true. He may not have a clue, either. And he’s a MAN, and you know what that means! “NOTHING’S WRONG. I DON’T NEED COUNSELING. I DON’T NEED ANY HELP.” And so goes the EGO. I’ve come to know that so many of us have no clue as to what we want or why we do things, and in this case, why has the fire disappeared. It may be that ATTACHMENT thing that MOST men do. Do her in the bathroom, do her in the movies, do her in the car, do her on the car, do her against a tree, do her in the grass, but when she becomes GIRLFRIEND or WIFE: IT’S ONLY SUPPOSE TO BE DONE IN THE BED ROOM, 'CAUSE ANYTHING ELSE IS NOT LADY LIKE. :o
Men freak out when the woman suggests new positions or new places to do it. AMAZING how that communication is NOT used for GOOD.
M&M’s response to her request: “YOU WANNA DO WHAT!? WHERE!? ONLY IF YOU PROMISE TO CALL BE BIG DADDY!”
My bet is always on what I make it a point to tell everybody when it comes to dealing with another … “OUR WAY OF THINKING and OUR VERY OWN BRAINS are our worst enemies!” And lots of people never think to look for the answers starting with SELF. Hell, lots of people have gone through life without getting to know self.
AS THE WORLD TURNS.
Stay the course. HAPPINESS should be the ONLY thing we seek, and dare not look to someone else for that. SELF.
Im 23 years old and in the past few years my testosterone levels absolutely tanked. I think its due to a medication Im on, but unforuntately Im dependent on it… at least for the moment.
I got my levels tested. At 23 years old my T level was 250. Apparently 350 is like the absolute minimum for a 65 year old man.. and Im way below even that… I obviously feel dead. Depressed, no energy, no sex drive. I gained a ton of fat, and my muscle (which used to be pretty substantial as I lifted for over a year on top of being an athlete) absolutely disappeared to the point where I am lifting less weight than when I was 16 and not muscular at all. I have absolutely no muscle mass on my body now.
I went to the doctor, he put me on this underarm gel Axiron. It barely does anything yet 2 months in hes still telling me to stick with it.
I bring up worries about my own testicles shutting down and he immediately dismisses it and says Ill be fine. No talk of testing all these other hormones like estrogen, no talk of taking any HcG so my balls dont shrink and I go sterile.
Im at the end of my rope and dont know what to do. I have an appointment with an endocronologist… but this isnt the first time Ive heard that they have no idea what theyre talking about when it comes to TRT. I live in NJ… what should I do?
Make a copy of all the tests iamwildman2 wrote in his post. Bring it with you to your appointment since you already have one. Tell him you want the levels tested for all of those. If he wont then tell him you will find another doctor. Remember your paying him not the other way around. Oh and always ask for a copy of the results of the test. Again you paid for them.
If this endocrinologist is not to your liking, then go here >>>
Check out the resources link and find a functional medicine doctor in your area.
The difference between an FMP and your normal MD is MD’s cure after there is a problem. FMP work with you to prevent them from ever occurring. Lots of MD’s are educated in both now so you may be able to find one in your area that can except insurance.
You could also call the doctor iamwildman2 suggested for a consultation.
Husband got his testosterone level test results back yesterday.
He was told that he should fall somewhere between 250 - 800 to be ‘normal’ for his age group. His T level was at 630. So… not what he was expecting to hear. I guess it’s time to think about other variables, and what else is killing the drive.
Tisha, thank you for the suggestion about Functional Medicine.
Any other thoughts or suggestions are very welcome. Just throw it all on the table, maybe something will ring a bell.
Hi MoonlightBliss - just curious is your man taking Propecia (for hair loss)? If he is that is a a total T-killer and no bueno. Also high levels of iron in the blood can also cause T levels to drop off the map.
Other than that make sure he eats a healthy diet full of fruits and vegetables and high-fiber foods. He should also watch his fat intake. Another factor to consider is diabetes, that can also cause low T levels.
