Abuse is no excuse to abuse someone else. And I believe I stated that earlier. But as Lor just said, “Fighting begets more fighting.”
Eventually someone has to step down and say, “You know what? This person is hurting too. I don’t know what they’ve been through, any more than they know what I’ve been through. But if I fight, we’ll all just continue to fight.”
I don’t think anyone here was wrong for standing up for what they believe.
But I think when we’re attacked, we can either go, “Hey, they attacked me, so I must attack back!” or, we can go, “Obviously something I said offended them and they felt the need to protect themselves. I can get defensive and protect myself, or I can choose to try and make us both feel safer so we don’t have to attack eachother.”
There has to be a difference between being a pansy and not standing up for ourselves and steping back to try to understand why we’re all so defensive, isn’t there?
I just know that when I first read the statement, “Women don’t know what they want,” it triggered something angry in me. But taking a step back and re-reading it made me realize that I was taking it waaaaay too personally, and for whatever reason, I was applying it to something abusive.
Am I a saint that always does this? Hell no! That’s laughable. No one is going to be understanding all the time.
I haven’t been active in many discussions on this forum, but I have been reading very many threads. Often times, there will be a thread referencing PUA material, or a conversation regarding the PUA scene that pops up.
I will be honest. Ail, I have seen many conversations involving you and your stance on PUA material. I respect your opinion regarding PUA material. However, I cannot understand the number of times you are willing to go through the same arguments about PUA material and it’s ‘worth’ or effectiveness on Scots or otherwise.
Perhaps your pain is so deeply rooted that it incites such a strong reaction that your must express your opinion to any who you feel needs to hear it. If that is the case, I’m sorry, and I hope you can find a more productive way to release your pain. But in the end, you would be hypocritical to expect someone else to hear your opinion when you are closed off yourself. As people try and understand your behavior and it’s underlying motivations, please try and understand other people’s behaviors and their underlying motivations. I assure you that most people’s underlying motivations are benevolent in nature. They just haven’t figure out how to express their motivation in a positively received way.
I’m glad that you are happy with your SO and that he is everything that you want or could ask for. That’s making you happy so stick with it! Others find happiness in different lifestyles. You’re a doctor (correct? medical field at least for sure.), so I don’t spell anything out for you. If you cannot respect it, then ignore it. Their happiness or lack their of, whether it is perceived or real, has no influence on your own happiness, or at least should not.
But please, we really don’t need anymore debate about the effectiveness or worth of PUA material. Those who find worth it in will embrace it, those who do not will reject it. Please, let those who wish to speak freely, speak freely.
We were here to talk about physical appearance, right ?
On the physical presentation front, you can categorize it like
The shape you’re in regardless of your DNA… you can and should do something about this. Being in good shape makes a great difference in how you are perceived. It sends a message about your self discipline and general life attitude as well. Does anyone find grossly out of shape sexy ?
Honestly ? No. Right. Thought so.
Your genetic endowment. Important. Not as much as the mass media would have you believe. I’ve known extrordinarily handsome men that were such mess ups that no one could stand them. However, if it didn’t count for something, we wouldn’t have distinctions like “extrordinarily handsome” , or 1-10 ratings, or plastic surgeons, liposuction, hair replacement clinics and all of that. Be honest, it matters. OTOH, you can do a lot to compensate. see #1
Your physical co-ordination and general grace. I’ve found this quality to make a surprising difference, and many women seem to lock in on grace, ease of movement, fluidity, “presence” as much as photogenic attractiveness. There are things you can do by yourself, and there are things you can be taught, and there are things that can be done to you to improve this. Think yoga, modern dance, anything that makes you space and movement aware..
Voice. Most are mediocre. A high percentage are unattractive. Men and women. Real voice training is expensive and strenuous. Nothing in the world sounds as sexy as a professionally trained voice. Seriously. An exceptional voice stands out like a diamond in a manure pile.
Attitude… boy does this matter, every bit of it. Sadly, the most physically beautiful often have poor attitudes. Attitude is like your emotional voice. Most are equally mediocre. Qualities like curiosity, flexibility, capacity to focus, respectfulness, making clear and fine distinctions, reflectivity, courage, honesty are the state of the game.
Sense of style. Not over the top. Just good sense of what works and how to make it work best. Nothing ever beat a combination of high quality, good fit, appropriate color choices, understatement, and nothing ever will.
Knowing how to live. How to get deep pleasure and soul satisfaction from the simplest moments… know this and you know the secret to life.
Put it together the best you know how, all else will follow.
The trick to having infinite patience and calm seems to be.
Do not identify yourself with things that fail.
Hint: And if it’s human or human inspired, it will fail.
The problem starts there.
Example:
Person one: Patriots suck
Person two: I’m a patriot fan, so I’m going to slug you.
Person one: Bush sucks
Person two: I’m a Republican, so I’m going to slug you.
Person one: PUAs suck
Person two: I’m a PUA, or know one, so I’m going to slug you.
Why not change to -
Person two: So what? Who cares? I don’t identify, label, or define myself with crap, and if I say anything, it’s to point out that if you labeled me, it does not apply.
Lor, I wish I could rep you. But you know the rule Spread the love.
What do you mean? What you listed are some very good and vital points to improve, some of them physical and some not, like points 1, 2, 3 and 6, though 3 cannot be improved, not with modern science at least…
I think you give looks more value than tthey deserve. Like I have said, they do matter but are only worth maybe using cosmetics, but plastic surgery ?? No. That is where I can easily draw the line of how much looks matter. Plastic surgery for women is “ok” because their way of attracting men is through body language and eye contact (I.e. visual things). If you think about it, women are almost frowned upon by society for stating their interest in a man.
That is why our looks matter so little. If we were not the approachers, looks would be the only thing a woman had to go on before she approached. When a woman sees you she immediately categorizes you
based on her experience with men of same appearance, not looks.
We do it too. Picture a woman with long gleaming blond hair in a revealing dress with big breasts and in high heels. Now picture a woman with trashy hair and in a brown robe with a dull colored scarf, she has no make up and has skin which has not been taken care of.
So, based on their appearance, I would think you’ve already pictured them and made a decision about their personality in some ways.
Note, I did not mention how “beautiful” they were on a rating scale, only their appearance.
If I then took a man in a suit, one in baggy hiphop clothes and another one wearing goth clothes with tattoos and put them each in front of you, who would you trust to babysit a child?
Appearance brings forth presumptions based on what the media has told people and their former experiences with characters of same appearance.
I’m simply saying that it is vastly different between the looks of a man and a female. And that it doesn’t matter if you’re good looking if you do not have a certain style to you.
It’s like the nerd in the movies with his nerdy, dark green clothes and his big glasses and his red acne. You think “wow, that guy is dorky, almost buttugly”, then a girl comes along and puts him in nice clothes (maybe suit) , gets him contact lenses and covers up most of his acne, you’re like “DEMN, I did not see that coming, he was handsome after all”. So his appearance(style and and how well he took care of himself) made his looks irrelevant.
And also, you said “Liposuction”, isn’t that improving your physical shape?
This is absolutely true. I can’t emphasize this enough. I call this “body language” and it entails how you carry yourself, how slowly you walk, how you face people, if your head turns, etc…
I like this quote a lot. I’ll make the presumption that you are not familiar with the seduction community, so I’ll state that this is almost the most important thing you have to work on in terms of “game”, many “experts” agree with this. But non-game wise, it is also very important.
Voice training can be done by your own, so I encourage guys that are not willing to take lessons to buy CD’s and practice at home.
Yes. This is the hard one and most important too. Get this one together and you’re fine.
Totally agree. But “over the top” can be wore too by some, it depends on congruency and environment. At a club, you can wear almost anything, no biggie as long as you’re congruent with it. Look at the famous Mystery, he has the utter most ridiculous clothes, I mean the nerdiest thing I’ve ever seen, but it works for him…
Yes, having values, seeking internal validation and so on is a journey all by itself.
I can’t really add to that, brilliantly said. But all this takes action and commitment, if you’re a person of action, I hereby congratulate you… you have the most important attribute in the world.
Hehe, this has become a thread about how to flame people correctly
She did not say that PUAs suck, Ail said that what I said was wrong and that PU stuff does not work on her.
I said that through my experience I know PUAs to be the most successful guys out there.
Interpret it how you want, but people before you did it correctly and I will not try to explain it further, JP is no. 1 in my list.
I did not care, honestly. I maybe cared about how the guys may have interpreted the things said here, simply because I did the same a long time ago and it caused me pain and frustration.
But I see what you’re saying, I just do not think it applied entirely to this thread at all.
Again, JP really explained how it was, read what she said again… Also Lor made some good points I reckon.
But hey, it’s all luv, I hope no one took this to heart (though my neg reps state it clearly )
It’s funny that the deeper one explores, the less helpful it seems to make hard and fast distinctions between your body and psyche - both from a practical, experiential ‘what works’ perspective, and from a sciency pschoneuroimmunoendocrinological perspective. When everything is working together one should move as an integrated being - so I’d personally see 4,5, and 7 as having a strong physical component (and the mental one is of a knowing-how, inarticulate, tacit knowledge kind rather than a theoretical one).
I’m surprised you feel, in fact seem sure that 3 can’t be improved. I’ve been chipping away at this for a while now and it’s surprising how much benefit can be derived from some of the things that tacitus alludes to here and discusses elsewhere. (It’s rather more ancient art than modern science though). It’s hard work though, just like many other worthwhile things.
who is to say what is worthwhile for another… it is hard to grasp the visceral and emotional meaning of a set of experiences for which one has few referents.
If you want to take it into a more rigorous, but thinner direction I wonder why it is that the partners of symmetrical men tend to orgasm more frequently during intercourse.
I was talking to this girl from Amsterdam who moved over here a few months ago. She found it surprising and amusing that people of a certain more proletarian class tended to talk, move and have similar mannerisms in the UK and Holland despite the cultural, ethnic and other diferences. (Wow, don’t that sound snobbish). So I think you tell more/as much from subtle patterns of muscle tone and movement as you do from the way somebody dresses. Not everyone is very attuned to information on this level though.
Interesting… I don’t know where you live or have lived, but my guess is it might be in N. America. My sense is that social judgements may with greater frequency be less nuanced and fluid in many towns there when compared with larger cities in Europe, and certainly with those in London. Vibe and a broader perception of who someone is dominates how someone chooses to dress in the circles I have experienced here.
Yes that stuff seems super important, but there is a deeper level than what is discussed as ‘body language’ in all the books that have come out since Julian Fast’s.
It’s a dangerous thing sometimes, venturing into parts unknown where the culture, social cues and personalities may be different… One is reminded of the baboon from Sapolsky’s work choosing to join a new tribe.
Are you familiar with the term Stylemogging? I think even Neil can have a hard time always pulling that off
That’s laughable. No one is going to be understanding all the time.
Thanks steveo.
Quicksilver