I see this product doesn’t have much discussion. It says in the store that Ammunition has 3 pheromones. -none is one of them. Are the other two -rone and -nol? Or are they more experimental pheromones? Just wondering…
I think I recall hearing someone on here saying Ammunition was like a “debugged” version of Alter Ego, which is none, rone and nol. If that’s the case, it’s just different ratios. AE uses 1:1.5:2
The latest shipping version, 1.5, has 4 pheromones: -none, -rone, -nol and TAA, along with a scent package from the world’s #1 parfum technology house.
I guess it’s too easy for people to use to really garner discussion. 
Seriously?? Who would’ve said something like that? I’ve gotta hunt them down. I actually find myself taking offense. Heh.
Thanks! And yeah, I love the scent! Really helps fight the scent of CTTM2 which makes me dizzy lol
You’re welcome!
Whoa… 16, huh? Wish I had the technology available today when I was your age.
Watch out for the androstenone content of Ammunition. Might lead to an “OD” if you use too much, if you tend to seem serious (don’t smile enough, etc.), dress in dark colors, or if you have intense energy.
How’s it working for you so far? Can you tell?
You know, I was thinking of releasing radically new mixes of Ammo, instead of the incremental ones I’ve been doing.
One uses far less -none that Ammo has now, with far more alpha nol. A mix like this would be far more appropriate for you, in my opinion.
Actually, when I signed up on this forum, I entered the wrong month of birth (my birthday is in July, not June) - was hoping you can fix that for me 
. So really, I’ll be 16 next month.
And yes, many people warned me about using too much -none. I haven’t tried out Ammunition yet, but I am using it today in my mix. I’ve been using a 2:2:1 ratio of IFM + IS + CTTM2. That mix is great. Some have suggested I add some -none, so that is why I got Ammunition. Today I will try out a 2:2:2:1 mix of IFM + IS + Ammunition + CTTM2.
Wow, a real youngin!
I’ve got to wonder if it’s even appropriate for you to be on this forum, what with all of the adult language and all.
I’ll see if I can fix your birthday for you.
Hmm… Try just 1 spray of Ammo in your mix. Your use of IFM and Shine will definitely help to buffer any ill effects from the amount of -none in Ammo, but 1 spray will be a better step for you.
That’s enough to alter the effects, and you definitely should be conservative with any -none containing product.
Thank you!
Question:
I’m planning on trying some Ammunition as soon as my finances recover from my property tax bill.
As an old fart in 50’s and a type O, do you have a suggestion for which version on Ammo might be best? I’m a bit leery of -none (and I do have the ExperiMone 2.5, and some Edge, NPA, and Primal if I really need to add any). I can wait a while if there is a new formula in the works. Got plenty of other stuff I’m still playing with like IShine IO IH IFM Safari Meo-Est.
I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to suggest anything like that. I have both Ammunition and AE and the two are worlds apart. AE “feels” rather low energy and dark green to me… Ammunition feels higher energy, less weighing you down (Thick? Cloying?), and more of a pastel steel blue. AE is a dark mone mix, and Ammunition is not. It is very obvious that Ammunition is a higher quality and more refined product by the feel. (I wonder if I’m something of a synaesthete with these color associations?) I don’t use AE anymore because it’s about like using a club on a woman, instead of a silver tongue. Gets results, but is somewhat crude.
I think my memory was shot when I wrote that, I don’t remember the post though… I saw it when I first arrived.
Our only two shipping versions have been 1.0 and 1.5. With 1.5, you really don’t have to worry about the -none.
The amount is significant, but the fragrance in Ammo keeps the higher amount of “friendly pheromones” in v1.5 riding along in the formula for quite some time. They definitely act to balance the -none effect. Perhaps too well. (I’d love to hear comments comparing 1.5 to 1.0, or to some of the experimental versions)
More importantly, though, you’ve been at this for awhile now… so tell me… What has been most successful for you so far when it comes to -none containing products?
No problem. I understand that you meant no harm.
In fact, I was surprised that I had such a reaction to the comparison. It is completely innocent on your part, after all.
I know you don’t like their products, but I would’ve felt a little better with a comparison to a company like LaCroy (which gets it’s dosages right). Or, otherwise, Dodd (Xcite wipes), Cutler (Athena – a better product than most people admit) or Erox/Pherin.
Companies that are more honest than not.
Meaning that hey… everyone makes mistakes (some of Erox’s research makes huge leaps of logic, for instance; not to mention my own faults – I basically fail forward at times )… but in this industry, the bulk of companies out there make a business out of mistakes.
It’s almost like mistakes are their product.
That is a serious problem.
I don’t know what it’s like it now, but back when I used other companies products, AE wasn’t even consistent from bottle to bottle.
In fact, using other company’s products is what really spurred me to make my own. (in a classic Richard Branson inspired manner)
I was getting enough results to indicate that pheromones worked, but I often saw more negative results than positive. Out of the good results I got, I never got them consistently.
You had to use X inches of this, Y drops of that (from a bottle that was obviously intended to spill, so you’d have to rebuy), and Z dabs of that. It’s like playing twister on your body, but it’s not as a fun, because you’re doing it by yourself.
Even with all of that work, it was an expensive way to get nowhere fast. The results were only good enough to tease. It drove me crazy!
When I took a really crucial look at different manufacturers, I could see why.
Their hearts were in the wrong place. Some of them, if you really looked, had dollar signs in their heads where a brain would traditionally belong.
Nobody seems to talk about this for some reason (maybe because other forums are extensively censored?), but people who make AE, for instance, are about as honest as the people who make Pherlure.
Both use use blatant fraud as a “marketing tactic”.
(I, for one, do not consider fraud to be marketing. Both the FTC and I agree that fraud is a crime, not a marketing tool!)
Their COA (Certificate of Analysis) & NMR, for instance, are a total sham. Simply cut & paste directly from another company’s website (Sigma-Aldrich), they even keep Sigma’s product number on the COA (A8008).
That’s like giving you the product sheet for an Alpine stereo, crossing out “Alpine” (but not Alpine’s model #!) and putting your own business name there (like Emerson or Audiovox).
Nice move, huh?
Worse, they didn’t know which column to put their bogus 99.9% purity number. While they were busy fudging it, they put this number in STANDARD/SPECIFICATION column. Unless you’re a chemist or are in the chemical industry, this probably doesn’t mean anything to you, but suffice to say, it’s the wrong one. Big time.
You have to know how to read a COA to write (or forge, in this case) one. It’s called literacy.
Just like Pherlure created a bogus University study out of thing air, they created their COA the same way (but with even less attention to detail; the Pherlure fraud, after all, is at least somewhat brilliant in it’s execution).
Forging a COA as badly as they did shows how clueless they are when it comes to pheromones and the chemical industry in general.
It reminds me of “funny footage” shows on TV that show footage of “stupid thieves”. You know, the kind that end up leaving their ID at the liquor store they’re robbing… or the ones that shoot themselves in ass.
With the badly fudged documentation, how they make pheromone products that work at all is beyond me.
I guess if the guys at Pherlure can do it, anybody can.
I suppose you can get away by doing the bare minimum – dissolving some androgens in alcohol and filling a little bottle with it.
In essence, it’s not too darn hard.
Mothers make dinner for their families every day with recipes and processes that are more involved and detail oriented than most pheromone companies use. They definitely use more care.
Good products, really good products, on the other hand, require extreme attention to detail. You have to be a passionate, and stickler for honesty. Better products can’t be made out of lies, and they can’t be made from apathy.
Imagine if a contractor lied about the foundation of your house in lieu of actually building a stable one. What are you going to do if it rains, or there’s a hurricane?
You’re going to get hurt, or even die. That’s what’s going to happen.
Honesty is the foundation that few pheromones companies today have. The few that do don’t sell nearly as much as the ones that don’t.
Most people here know what a priority honesty is for me.
The few people here who’ve less than spectacular results with some products, know how I go out of my way to help them. How I constantly debug products, and work to make them as effective as possible.
Let’s face it –
Except for the investors out there, most people trade money for time. And time is a limited currency in life – you can’t make more of it.
Given the fact that we only have a short amount of time to live, I don’t want to waste anyone’s time or money on things that don’t work… and work well.
To me, wasting someone’s time is tantamount to stealing something that’s not mine: irreplacable parts of their lives. I don’t want anyone doing that to me, and that’s why I don’t do that to others.
It’s why I work so damn hard to bring everyone here the best possible products that anyone could hope to make. Products created with attention to technical detail. Products made with nothing less than respect for my user’s time and money. Respect for their lives.
Or said another way –
Products made with nothing less than love.
I know it sounds gushy and all, and perhaps give you the heeby geebies hearing me talk about “business” like that… but improving the lives of others, and treating them well, is really a driving force in my life. (and, actually, from talks we’ve had, I know it is in your life & business, too)
That’s why you’ll see me wax poetic when someone does a really good job… even if it’s a so-called “competitor”, like the product “Pheros” which is only available at LS…
To me, you see, people who really put their heart into things aren’t competitors.
Competing with what, after all? Mediocrity?
In reality, people who do a good job are cooperating with my company and I. They’re cooperating to make the best possible value for all. They’re cooperating to make life more exciting.
That’s not a competitor. (and in the sense of the recent concept of the “network economy”, most of the modern day economists and marketers would agree with me)
Unfortunately it seems that telling people what they want to hear, even if it’s made up, will always selling more than telling them the way it is.
That type of harmful nonsense is the only thing I compete with.
Well, phew… that was a long winded way of explaining why that comparison smarted me the way it did, wasn’t it?
I feel like I should’ve began that with Adam Corrola’s famous line “I don’t mean to go off on a rant here, but…”
Again, though, I know your comparison is fully innocent. Don’t take my (bnol fueled) venting personally. (Actually, it felt kind of good to do so! )
Warmly,
Michael
i want a warmly michael,too!
Oh, I thought you wanted me warm, for a second! I was confused. :o
Sure enough, I caught on. You mean the salutation, right?
Hmm. You know, it’s actually unusual that I did that. That’s usually when I’m writing personally in PMs.
I guess if I go on a huge rant, I might do that, too. I should search the forum sometime and see if I’ve done that on the public forum before.
and thats why I like doing business with you 
Synesthesia is part of genius, btw.
Here’s the man who can help you amplify and direct it:
See his hallmark technique called “Image streaming”, and you’ll see exactly what I mean.
You got upset because you understand so much more of the wholeness of the situation than I do. My comparison was not of the companies, but between my simple experience between my one bottle of AE and my one bottle of Ammunition.
Gotta start researching synaesthesia, I guess. Although I never had this with anything but pheromones… 
Definitely, I understand.
I guess with all the venting other users have been doing on the forum lately, it was a subconscious cue for me to vent, too. It is therapeutic.
I guess we’re having a kind of group forum therapy here.
What version of Ammo do you have, btw? 1.0 or 1.5?
I’ve heard other people describe pheromones in terms of colors, actually. I remember one lady talking about her first exposure to androstadienone as little red rushing darts. Then I believe the colors morphed for her. She also talked about her internal kinesthetic response.
Smell is a chemical sense, and each and every one of your cells has a sense of smell, in a way. It’s a very basic part of your existence, affecting each and every one of your more than 40 trillion cells. I’m not surprised that pheromones would have this impact on you.
You should see what they do to dogs, with the number of olfactory receptors they have. Oh my lord…
Okay, I’ve recovered from my ire at having made a nice long detailed reply to this and then watching the dreaded “website not responding” page wipe it out (the one time in a long time I didn’t copy to clipboard before hitting “submit”…). But I’m still irked enough at the web to keep this (relatively) short:
My experiences with -none have not been overly positive. Almost all reactions I’ve gotten with Primal Instinct, NPA, and even to a degree with The Edge have been between negative and “nothing positive noted.” An experiment I did with my most “-none averse” test subject (F age 35) with PI and a314 did seem to cancel the negative “defensive reactions” effects I was getting with -none, but I can’t say it helped overall.
I have gotten some somewhat positive reactions when using Alter Ego, Chikara, and Pheromax, so some sort of balance/blend is necessary, if I really benefit from -none at all that is.
The main problems may lie more in my lack of “targets” and number of encounters I have (limited sample pool), my still-recovering-from-a-medical-problem body (need to lose a few more pounds), my age, and maybe a lack of “game” (although most of the stuff I read in DeAngelo, Mystery, etc is “been there, am doing that…”).
Again: IO and IH do seem to work as advertised (gab gab gab…), so I know some things are working for me. I also prefer the most “grab and go” type solutions possible. Minimal fuss/off the shelf. Am also considering PMX101 as an experiment.
I also need to find something besides teenagers, harried mothers with 6 kids in tow, and the over 65 crowd to mingle with. Hey girls on this forum! Where do YOU go?