What's the Best Next Step after the Consumer Line?

I’ve tried all of the products in the consumer line, except those that are currently out of stock (Instant Female Magic, Dirty, and Raw Power). Now, I’m looking to try the rest of the Androtics products. As everyone here knows, the site has the following.

ExperiMones - products that contain a single active ingredient from the consumer line
Putatives - untested products who names are a P + a number
Experimental Test Mixes - untested products who names are MX + a number (I’ve seen them also referred to as ExperiMones)

What do you think would be best to try next: the MX series or the P series? And what’s the main difference between them? Is there some logic in assigning MX or P to the name, or is it just semantics?

Please post your answers to these questions. Unless, of course, it’s something people are supposed to find out for themselves by purchasingthe products blindly. Either way, thanked posts and positive reps are in order for the most helpful responses.

Mx’s are basically mixes that have shown success, but are in “beta stage” of testing to see if it is worth making them a full fledged consumer product.

Putatives are molecules which, if given more research, could be used as pheromones in upcoming products.

The Experimones are like you said, single molecules which are the major components of the consumer line and MX’s. the Putative’s could potentially end up in this category if they show enough positive research.

I recommend going on to the MX series. you could either buy blindly, or see what others are saying about MX’s, and decide on which you would like to try based off that.

which products have worked for you and which ones haven’t?

If something works well, stick with it. If it doesn’t, go fishing. Most of us need at least 3 different mixes: work, general socializing and dating. Of course there can be overlap but a mix that commands respect and obey hits at work can be a real loser on a date or at a dinner party. I have great tried and proven mixes for all three situations (plus a bunch more), so I don’t experiment as much as I used to. New mixes can often blow up in your face or do nothing at all, so you gotta try them in non-crucial situations. But basically, like Meow says, what do you need?

Since you asked and it might help give an answer, here’s the rundown on the products I used, with ratings and comments.

Instant Shine: *****: Totally awesome product. Whenever I ordered a new product, I ran out of it the fastest. It elevates my mood very nicely, giving me that “hey, this is nice” feeling. The effect on other people, however, was relatively subtle, working best in conjunction with other pheromones. Three girls danced with me when I wore it before coming to a party.

Instant Openness: *****: Another awesome product. People around me acted more smiley when I wore it. Store employees gave me friendlier service, and girls in dance clubs were more open to talking to me. In large amounts, it had Spaceland-like effects. One female friend responded very poorly to it, but it was an isolated incident.

Instant Gentleman: *****: Worked much better than I anticipated. Friends acted more mellow and chilled out around me when I used it. Strangers at parties felt more comfortable making small talk with me. Family members listened to me more when I talked about something. The same friend mentioned in the last paragraph responded well to it.

Ammunition: **** : An all-around great product. It’s gotten me wonderful hits at salsa classes, at singles’ events, and in dance clubs. Girls were quite willing to dance with me when I wore it, although a lot of them acted more flirty/cuddly than flat-out sexual. I don’t use it very often, but when I do, it does wonders.

A314: **** : Good product for work environments. However, I was in the process of looking for a job when I bought it, so it’s hard to say exactly. I’ve gotten a few great hits at job interviews, but its use outside business environments is relatively limited. Perhaps I can extract more of its potential by combining it with Instant Jerk.

Instant Honesty: *** : It’s a good product, but I haven’t ended up using it a lot. I’ve known all my friends for years, so the honesty part is already there, and I haven’t tried it with strangers. One female friend has a very strong negative reaction to it. The difference in behavior of other friends was negligible.

Turn Up The Heat: *** : Good product with underutilized potential, at least for me personally. I didn’t need it in girlfriend-type situations. One time, I had really nice hits from it at a party that ended up being a sausage fest. I was able to really get into an alpha-male persona, and do what business people call “work the room”.

Instant Jerk: N/A : I haven’t tried it in public yet. The promise seemed great, but the very high amounts of androstenone put me off. I bought it because of the copulins, since Dirty was out of stock. Now, I rarely use it, except occasionally for self-effects when working out. It boosts my stamina tremendously.

Things I’m looking for:
I want something that’ll give me a “cool guy in the room” vibe. I achieved something like that with a combination of TUTH and IG, but if there’s a product that does that plus mood elevation, it would be totally awesome. Also, I heard that P83 is really good. Other MX’s and P’s came up here or there, but I’m still in the process of deciding what to get.

So there you have it. Based on what you’ve read so far, which products would you recommend? Experimones or Putatives? And if you have an idea, which ones exactly? Keep posting the suggestions. So far, they’ve been good.

wow it’s amazing how different my experience has been, i’m gonna post on here just to show the differences, maybe some noob can find it useful or something:

instant shine: makes me feel better but doesn’t do anything with others..stopped using it since hearing a good joke has the same effect.

instant openness: oh yah..good stuff, gets women much more friendly…love it..it’s one of the 2 main components in the mix.

instant gentlemen: made be crabby and irritable, so stopped using it. no reaction from the ladies.

ammunition: another one that has given me weird results. makes me very depressed and only has shown positive results with men, nothing with women.

instant honesty: kinda the same thing as instant openness but not as effective or as fast, so i prefer openness to this.

turn up the heat: nothing special, wore it in many environments, personally didn’t notice any difference.

instant jerk: the other jewel in my mix. got head turning behavior from women…with just one spray. good stuff.

so i guess the bottom line is that i’m sure glad i overindulged and got togo bottles of everything. had i only invested in 2 or 3 bottles, there’s a good chance i would have just given up instead of enjoying the ridiculous results i’ve been getting.

Based on this I would say look into the MXs 272, 273, 292,and 320. P74 has been reported to give a cool guy vibe. I think p78 has some of the qualities you are looking for. P79 and P83 have also been forum faves.

I think that what you choose to experiment with should be based on your interest in pheromones. If you are only really interested in finding mixes that work then stick with the MX and consumer series and let Androtics do the work. If on the other hand, you have an adventurous spirit and don’t mind if things don’t always work well, try some putatives and experimones.

Keep in mind that the P, T, and named experimones are single molecule products. They are a hobby unto themselves and somewhat static. The MXs are more like a continuing adventure as one evolves into another. :slight_smile:

An MX is a MIX. We might as well rename it MIX so there’s no confusion at all.

An ExperiMone is a single, proven molecule. Maybe not proven to academic standards (pure academics still view androstadienone and alpha androstenol as putatives, and must continue to do so really – pure science minus commerce or the “real world” really isn’t about “proving” anything as much as it’s about perpetual, objective (as objective as possible) data collection).

It’s proven enough to be functional enough to use in the real world, though.

A P is a single pheromone or putative molecule. (back when I more fully ran things here, we used PP for a Putative Pheromone, then dropped one P when and moved it over the ExperiMone category we felt that the molecule transferred had enough feedback to transfer to pheromone status – I hope this is still in effect, but I could see how this might be confusing to some folks, too)

Something like PP74, changed it’s name to P74 once we had enough feedback on it from reliable testers. (people who don’t hallucinate effects much or at all when given a placebo, folks who can accurately identify a pheromone molecule when given an unlabeled vial, etc.)

A pheromone, whether putative or not, is the thing that makes up mixes.

The key thing to remember about a P or a PP is that it’s always just one single molecule. That’s it.

So it’s kind of like an organ in your body. You have the organ, which is a mixture (in a sense) of cells. A highly structured mixture, of course. :slight_smile:

MXs/Mixes, btw, can either be anything from dead simple (one pheromone + a diffusion or fragrance package) to highly complex and elegant (19 pheromones modified with the latest diffusive macrocyclic musks, + a custom fragrance package, or what have you).

Mixes are pretty broad in scope. The main thing tying them together is simply that they’re a mix of components. One way to think about an MX is they’re the thing that comes between a raw, single pheromone and an actual product release. They’re the pheromone product precursor.

We release a lot of them sometimes, because I really like to split test things in the real world. It’s amazing what a difference the inclusion or exclusion of a certain molecule does to a mix… or a different ratio of one molecule to another. Releasing 5 to 7 variations of a single mix allows us to hone in on what details affect the big picture, the end result, for as many people as possible.

There were a number of things I learned from split tests over the years that led up to being able to build the more popular modern mixes such as MX292 and the latest Raw Power mixes. Without the knowledge learned from earlier mixes, I never would’ve been able to do what I did with later mixes.

It’s like anything, really. Knowledge builds upon itself. You learn more with time.

Of course, there’s still mixes and experiments I’ll make where I assume nothing. I’ll literally act like I know nothing, like I had a lobotomy, or as if I was someone else. (there’s even mixes within packs where I do this – I’ll be like, “ok I have 4 here that fit with a structure, let me do an additional one that’s not necessarily related structurally, but only thematically”)

This breaks the “curse of knowledge” whereby you become less experimental and playful with time. While these mixes usually aren’t as successful from the getgo as ones based on my knowledge, I learn an incredible amount from them.

Dr. Professor Feynman, a famously witty physicist, commented quite a bit on how some of his greatest breakthroughs occurred while teaching Physics 101. He said he especially learned quite a bit when fielding questions from the most uninformed students, people who dared to ask “stupid” questions.

There’s also some info you can read about this under the exact phrase I used above, “The curse of knowledge”.

Curse of Knowledge

By both learning from the past AND occasionally throwing out all assumptions, all pre-knowledge, and just experimenting like you were literally born yesterday, you can charge ahead in any field at quite a clip.

So, anyway… from MXs and Ps to a little bit of info on how to innovate. I hope that was useful for you.

PS – As far as semantics go… I called them ExperiMones as a sort of brand name to separate them from pheromones found elsewhere. PheroM ones for Experimenters is where the name comes from.

First, ExperiMones are synthesized by the world’s best labs. Just like Swiss Vitamin C found over in Europe is superior to the Chinese and Indian synthesized vitamin C you find the US, the same is true of pheromone molecules, too. (that’s why Germany makes you get a perscription for many vitamins over there – they work better, they’re closer to pharmaceuticals in effect)

Since scientific experimentation is about reducing variables and increasing constants, penny per cup Chinese molecules have no place in experimentation where the results are actually supposed to mean something. Each batch is wildly different. The COAs provided by Chinese firms are fairy tales that no responsible company can believe. All Chinese chemicals contain an unpredictable and often just plain weird range of impurities. You can send a Chinese chemical to a good lab like InterTek and see that impurities can make up 10 to 40% of the end product, much higher than the 1 or 2% they claim.

If you want to see the scourge of Chinese chemicals in the nutritional field, check out consumerlab.com. ConsumerLab doesn’t even run complex tests. They generally just test for amount of “active product” and basic contaminants, like lead. If they ran more comprehensive, you’d see something much more gruesome.

In the cosmetic field, it’s much worse. If China has the idea that what they’re selling you will not be used for human consumption, then the gloves are really off as to what they’ll send you. They’ll put anything in there. Ground polymers, whatever.

Remember, this is the country that put melamine powder (ground school tables, basically) into watered down milk in order to fake their protein content. They killed children and senior citizens in order to make a few more cents profit.

http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/melamine-in-milk.html

Folks who kill for so little aren’t going to give you good quality pheromones, and I really didn’t want my ExperiMone line associated with what everyone else was doing with their Chinese sourced bag of strange.

Generally speaking, even worse quality chemicals are found in cosmetics. Not only are the chemicals inferior in cosmetics, but most cosmetics companies are sloppy beyond belief when mixing them, etc. (check out how Luca Turin calls almost the entire cosmetics field is despicably sloppy – which is why, of course, every batch of even expensive perfumes like Creed are quite a bit different almost every time they’re made)

A higher step on the ladder of quality is the nutritional field. This is still amazingly sloppy, as you can see from even the simplest tests done by consumerlab.com. I tend to buy mostly from life-enhancement.com, because they do use American and Swiss sourced materials. They do have amino acid based products from superior suppliers like Anjimoto in Japan. The end difference between the same formula executed with Chinese chemicals and actual quality oriented suppliers is enormous.

The highest is the pharmaceutical field, but you still can’t trust China even in this area, unless you want a good dose of lead along with your naproxen sodium.

China will improve, of course (there’s literally nowhere to go but up), but it’s certainly not there right now. At one point, you never would’ve wanted a computer made in China, but now most are made there and they work fine. Even Apple makes their artsy sculptures over there. The more you bitch at them about quality and invest your money elsewhere, the more they do evolve and adapt. Complacency will give you poor results, though. You pay (reward) someone to be bad, and they’ll be bad, all right.

ExperiMones are also the first series of pheromone chemicals to embrace the dosing concept, as found in big pharma. i.e., x amount of pheromone per spray or drop. It’s like knowing that the aspirin you’re about to take contains 325mg of the active compound per pill. It’s a good thing to know – an essential thing to know, really.

In fact, I don’t know how anybody ever did any research they consider to be serious without tracking the dose used. The number of actual academic research papers I read where the doses weren’t mentioned were just mindblowing. Without properly quantifying the amount of the substance being tested, I couldn’t understand where the science was.

Normally, a scientist wouldn’t even buy a balance (a precise scale) without looking at the linearity and repeatability of results. Why they’d test variable amounts of pheromones from inconsistent sources was unfathomable to me.

So a major reason why I started Androtics was to add these simple disciplines to the field. Use great chemicals with predictable purity and impurity profiles, and keep track of REAL dosages applied. Simple, simple concepts that somehow escaped everyone else (even the very few folks who weren’t the cons and carnies that seem to make up the bulk of pheromone sellers).

I basically had no way to get great quality, pre-dosed pheromone compounds without starting my own project. You couldn’t buy the “good stuff” because nobody sold anything all that good in terms of precision at the consumer level. (this is not to say that an excellent product like The Edge didn’t produce good results, btw – the few good products out there, like the ones from LaCroy, were very good indeed. The lack of dosing and assured purity, however, just wasn’t useful for any serious experimentation intended to advance the science)

Just like MXs are precursors to consumer products, having these simple disciplines in place was, to me, the precursor to making any actual progress in the pheromone field whatsoever. A drop of this, 3 dabs and 5" of this stuff over here may be fun, but does not exactly lend itself to variable minimization and repeatability. It does not lend itself to progress, because the foundation is too shaky.

Before I created a precision pheromone toolset, you could say that any attempts at progress with imprecise tools were doomed to be stillborn. (or very very slow)

It’s kind of like how good measurements are essential to building physical items, like houses and cars. English measurements were a good first step. Then there was some evolution beyond that initial precision. Both houses and cars became far more stable and longer lasting when the metric system was used for the measurement of their components.

Anyway, you’ve got some history on the word usage now… hopefully it makes sense to you. I’m open to simplifying the naming schemas, of course.

Go with MX320 as your first MX, I think that you will enjoy it. It has good IG type of amped up effects and I’m sure that you’ll be able to notice that right away since you’ve had more experience with things like IG. Very charismatic.

P74 or P93 combined with either A314 or IG might be something to try.