Sorry I never use third party apps on facebook. Can you find the actual article and post a link to it?
Meh, these guys are weirdo’s IMHO. I just can’t get into people claiming they have contacts with space aliens telling them the future. The future hasn’t happened yet!
His beef is with the monetary system! The monetary system is truly fucked up… I cant help but think about louis c.k. Talking about how he could at any moment sell his 50,000$ car and probably save thousands of starving people on africa, but we dont. Every day we wake up and we get in our 50,000$ cars and buy our 8$ coffees and pretend that half of the world is not literally STARVING to death.
I don’t have a $50K car nor do I buy $8 coffees 
! I also give to selected charities without much admin overhead and I also volunteer. However because I have set myself up to prosper in this life does not mean that I should suffer because there are those in other places who haven’t taken advantage of the opportunities that come to them. Everyone has had situations in their lives that have really screwed them up. Its the ones who climb above who make the best of the world. This world is way to full of the occupiers who feel they are entitled to what others have.
The monetary system is what it is. A inanimate system dictated by the thought and power a person puts into it. You make it work for you or you sit and gripe about how others are making it work for them all the while sticking their hand out.
How about the people that cant do anything about it? How about Bangladesh where the population is 148,692,131 and the country is a third the size of Texas? Btw the population of all of Texas is only 25,674,681.
How about all of Africa? I’ve been to Africa… There is not much they can do there to improve their lives. I’ve seen entire cities made out of cardboard boxes. ENTIRE CITIES!
How about Thailand & Singapore? Where the only place for a female to earn a living is to whore herself out?
The list goes on and on. I’m not just talking about people in America. The poorest bum in America still has it better than any starving kid in Africa.
These were some of the healthiest kids I saw in Africa… We were clearing out world war 2 bunkers to make sure no terrorists were hiding out in them at the top of a mountain. These kids ran barefoot up this rocky mountain calling for water before they even started to climb it. We watched them come from a village that had to have been (by my own estimations) a mile or two away.
This guy didn’t give up money because he thought he deserved more of it. He was already managing companies I’m sure he earned a fine salary. He gave up money to make a statement to the entire world that we don’t have to live like this. There are better, more human ways of living. Ways were all of humanity can take care of each other. I truly believe the monetary system will collapse soon. Money = debt. Debt = Money. Therefore as long as there is money there is always debt. Add interest and you have never ending debt and never ending inflation. This drives the population crazy about earning more and more money. Not all people go about getting money legitimately. This is why there are bad people in the world. It’s been proven that nearly ALL crime would cease to exist if we stopped using money and went to a resource based economy.
I support this dude’s decision to live however he wants, but it is a philosophically elitist lifestyle. That is, not everyone can live it. He needs someone to manufacture his “caravan”, his clothes and without modern farming equipment and fertilizer the waste food he talks about wouldn’t be produced and there would be no food for him to barter for. Since he doesn’t really decry the system that provides for him, I really have nothing against him, it just won’t work for everyone.
Frankly, the best way to raise a country out of poverty is to begin with strong private property ownership rights. Look at the Dominican Republic and Haiti, both are on the same island and one is incredibly poor and the other is relatively wealthy.
That’s wonderful that he is giving up money to live life as a bum. Its wonderful that you can post here on a forum about seeing things that you saw. So when are you planning to give up your car, your nice shoes, your mones?
Show me the proof that nearly all crime would stop if we gave up money. Actual proof and based off what? Theory, someones ideals, what? That is such a ridiculous claim when it cannot be proven.
I certainly never said people do not suffer, but most of these people are suffering in their respective countries because of power struggles brought on by their own people. In countries like Kuwait (oil rich) American soldiers will go fight and die, but when it comes to a country like Mali where oil isn’t present than people die everyday. In essence then these people are living without a monetary system. I also cringe when I read of a world view so limited that you think the only thing a Thai women can do is be a whore! Seriously that is what’s wrong in this world! Not ever Thai woman is a whore.
Ghandi was the change he wanted to see and he had nothing. Bob Marley was the change without weapons, Mandela was the change, The Dhali Lama is the change.
So what then do you propose? Communism? Oh wait, that didn’t work out to well for the Cubans, Polish, Soviet Union, etc. Give up your money and live off the land? Well you’re still buying leisure products like mones and surfing the Internet. Is it really a change that will work then? How do you propose the world to change if its not something you aren’t doing yourself or that most people couldn’t do when you yourself agree there are bad people in this world? Earning a living for what you do, regardless if its paid in money or potatoes is still a monetary system. Any way you shake it if you get something for doing something its a monetary based system. So how do you get around it then? What is the proposal be that change, because in the end, the laptop he used to post that was made by someone and even if he traded a can of soup its a monetary trade.
Everyone has opportunity. Just as much opportunity as Nelson Mandela did when he was locked away in prison writing letters every single day. Just as much as Gandhi did when he stood in line to have his skull cracked to oppose imperialism.
I’ve also been places to horrible to describe, but to me, dropping out is not the change I want to see in the world. To think he was making money and could have done some good by helping others, but he chose to just drop out and help no one. That is a real easy way out. You did something when you joined the Marines. You had ideals, faith and a belief. To me dropping out is a lack of faith. That’s not the change I want to see in the word. I want to see faith, kindness, charity but I also want to see determination, drive, effort.
Is there peace and love everywhere? NO. Will dropping out change that? Again I think you answered that when you said there were bad people in the world.
Just my opinion and I use the word “you” in general terms not to describe you personally.
Steve, you should watch zeitgeist 3 on youtube. If you can watch it with an open mind and not get turned off by its conspiracy feel, you’ll see he’s on to something real. Maybe his plan isnt perfect, but one form or another of his idea is the future. The monetary system is corrupted,Thomas Jefferson knew this, that’s why he harped so much on defending your rights against the government(http://jpetrie.myweb.uga.edu/TJ.html). He knew even back then that ever since the world bank took over things were going to spiral out of control.
Think about it.
EDIT: Now that I’m out of class, lol… I’ll elaborate.
We have the resources available TODAY to eliminate over 80% of the jobs currently out there. That means no more going to work 9-5 to sit in front of a computer screen aimlessly wasting your life away to earn a measly 15$/hr. These jobs can be eliminated. And guess what? They are being eliminated!!! Why do you think unemployment rates are not falling? Unemployment rates will continue to rise, as technology continues to take over meaningless jobs, so big corporations can make more and more money by paying less and less people. In the monetary system, the corporations win. Not the average Joe.
Don’t get me wrong, in America I believe that in order to be successful one must shape their lives around success, and not expect success to shape itself around your life. There are things people can do to be successful. Like for example, I joined the military so I could afford college. Now I’m going to school to be a Physical Therapist. But these kinds of opportunities only apply to Americans. This doesn’t apply to the rest of the world. The topic being discussed here is humanity as a whole, not just America.
So it’s been a while since I watched the zeitgeist movies. I remember some of it having a far fetched / conspiracy theory feel to it – But I kept an open mind while watching all 3. Just for the simple fact that what they were telling me, was probably the most interesting information I’d ever watched on any video in my entire life. True or not, these facts I’d never even thought about before. Some of the things they were saying had some real possibility to them.
The Venus Project proposes that humanity is over-due for an upgrade. Like from the Stone Age to the Bronze Age. Medieval Age to the Modern Age. We should embrace technology since we can’t stop it and let it take over 80-90% of the jobs in the world. We have the technology right now, to harness the power of the wind, the ocean, the sun, and something else? to power the entire world without the use of ANY resources. In fact if America harnessed the wind in just 2 states we could power our entire nation without the need for any nuclear power.
What then do we do with our lives? We create & we share. All of humanity is fed for(we have the technology to feed all of humanity right now) and all of humanity is loved. Prosperity is shared equally among all. We don’t work for one person or one company or one government. Instead, every individual works for the prosperity and well-being of all 7 billion people on our planet at the same time. You asked how crime would stop if we discontinued the monetary system. I can’t answer this with evidence, but think about it. Most crime is due to money. I’m not saying all crime im saying MOST crime.
Id be interested in hearing peoples thoughts about zeitgeist 3. I havent had the opportunity to discuss it with many people since I watched it 6 months ago. I recommend stearing clear of 1 & 2 simply because everything you need to know is in the third movie, and the first ones may shatter your life. Lol no just playing, sort of, I think the first two will turn people off because it challenges so many popular beleifs. Im not saying i believe everything they say, I dont even know where I stand on some of the things they discuss, I’m simply saying it’s interesting stuff to think about.
And no steve, not every thai woman is a whore, but a lot of them are. The kuwait statement, those that live without the monetary system are living in severe poverty which is exactly my point. There is no reason the government should be hording 99% of the nations money. Same with egypt. Same with that other country on the west side of Africa. Another example of how powerful orginizations take all the money and leave the rest of humanity to starve. These things wont stop they will just continue.
Did you know it’s estimated that the next resource to be taken advantage of by corporations is water? Imagine 100-200 years down the road when humanity has to scrape pennies just to afford drinking water.
God you probably all think I’m a nut job now LOL!!! I just like to think about shit is all… I watch a lot of documentaries.
Or as Chuck says:
Fuck off with your sofa units and strine green stripe patterns, I say never be complete, I say stop being perfect, I say let… lets evolve, let the chips fall where they may.
"Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who’ve ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don’t need. We’re the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War’s a spiritual war… our Great Depression is our lives. We’ve all been raised on television to believe that one day we’d all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won’t. And we’re slowly learning that fact. And we’re very, very pissed off. "
Lol…
I cant say that I agree. Your not looking deep enough. First let me say for those who dont know me well that I am spiritual but not religious so I am not speaking from a religious stand point.
No most crime is not due to money. Look back in history. Crime was always present in some form and frankly far more brutal back then before we had a monetary system then we have ever seen now. Its naive to think doing away with our monetary system will save humanity. The evils of man are inbreed with in us. Can money inspire evil ? Yes of course it can but money is not the root or the cause.
The root of evil is power, greed, hate, fear, anger, jealousy etc etc. Do you really think that those emotions only exist because of material things like money. Do you really think a world without money or technology will wipe out those emotions. That we would all be happy and share. ?? Then you don’t know humans very well.
I don’t see the zeitgeist’s as any different then corporations or the government. They are trying to control people through fear. The government controls through power, corporations control through greed and money. Even religion is a form of control.
Control in any form is still control. Since the beginning of time every single human has been given the ability to feel all emotions both negative and positive and the free will to choose. The ability to feel and choose is what makes us human and since the beginning of time evil has struggled to control that gift with in us. There are laws to the universe and what the zeitgeists don’t see when dreaming up there little world with out all those negative state of mind and emotions is that Good can not live without the presence of evil. Trying to take away that which makes us human will destroy humanity whether done in the name of evil or in the name of virtue.
Do not blame the material world for the evils of man. Yes I agree the monetary system has its down falls. Its unbalanced and unfair but its has absolutely nothing to do with being human.
Yes this is an example but your not looking deep enough. Your right these things wont stop whether those organizations exist or not because its not the organization they stem from. It stems from people and the lust for power.
You cant choose for the rest of the humans in the world. The reason your here, the reason each of us is here… is to make those choices for ourselves. Suffrage is part of being human. Its part of what forms our choice. Sorry its harsh but its true. The good news though is that these things like poverty, suffrage and greed bother you. It means your still human.
Now as for Mark Boyle and those like him. He is making a choice and thats fine. I agree with a lot of the concepts he preaches. We should get back to the land and learn to be more self sufficient. His concept is “give a man a fish and he will eat for a day but teach him to fish and he will eat for a lifetime” but if he is doing this thinking it will change humanity or save the world from suffrage he is mistaken. The material world didn’t cause the suffrage to begin with. I dont support him simply because he is getting rich teaching it. Do you really think he does those speaking gigs for free LOL.
When Gandi said “be the change you want to see in the world” he wasn’t saying place blame on the material world or rid yourself of material things. He was telling you to look inside yourself and choose because the choices and the blame lies with in each of us.
If you want to see more love in the world then be loving.
If you want to see more peace in the world then be peaceful.
If you want to see more balance in the world then be balanced.
You need to look deeper then your looking to understand the true meaning of humanity. Having money or technology or not is not going to change humanity. Its what we CHOOSE to do with those things that changes humanity. Who you choose to be and we cant make that choice for anyone else. We have been given free will and its a glorious terrifying burden to carry.
Tisha
“We have the resources available TODAY to eliminate over 80% of the jobs currently out there. That means no more going to work 9-5 to sit in front of a computer screen aimlessly wasting your life away to earn a measly 15$/hr. These jobs can be eliminated. And guess what? They are being eliminated!!! Why do you think unemployment rates are not falling? Unemployment rates will continue to rise, as technology continues to take over meaningless jobs, so big corporations can make more and more money by paying less and less people. In the monetary system, the corporations win. Not the average Joe.”
You have to realize that this also creates jobs. Back around 1900 some 80% of the population was engaged in agriculture. Farm equipment advances changed that and a few decades later 20% were in ag and close to 80% were in manufacturing. Shift several decades and 20% are in manufacturing and close to 80% are in service industries. Automobiles destoryed horse industries, and look at what the computer industry has generated while destroying jobs that were done by hand. You can’t stop the progression of technology and that has given humans a small cushion against natural disasters and such.
You often hear about companies sending jobs overseas, but the reason there are new jobs overseas is because those overseas markets are the ones that are expanding. If you are truly for world humanity the jobs that service those markets have to be created there. It seems hypocritical to want the poorer nations to have a better standard of living while simultaneously trying to stifle job creation in those countries to serve a domestic political interest.
Money is not the enemy. Earned money is simply a measure of how much value you have added to someone’s life. People who have earned large sums of money did it by adding large amounts of value to peoples’ lives. To have become rich legally and ethically means you have done a great deal of good in the world.
Illegal actions to get money are quite another matter.
When you say you watch a lot of documentaries, I hope you realize the Zeitgeist movies are not documentaries and that most documentaries do have an agenda.
I hope you don’t think people are piling on because they don’t necessarily agree with you. You seem like a good person but there is an old saying “the road to hell is paved with good intentions”. Much of what you suggest has been tried and it didn’t end well.
I don’t feel hated I am glad people are discussing this!! I am an extremely open minded person. I like to openly discuss my views on things with others. Not to challenge the beliefs of others but to see if there are errors in my own ways of thinking.
So on to my beliefs
I don’t believe that there is anything such as Good Vs Evil. I believe there are social influences and cultural norms that pressure people to do ill towards other people. I believe someone that has lived for decades being un-loved turns depressed and anti-social. I believe this is what causes crime. Social influences, cultural norms, and not receiving enough love from society in general. Human beings are social creatures by nature. A great example of this is if a baby is born and isn’t held by another human within a certain period of time it dies.
An example of social influences might be the study done by Stanley Milgram. Milgram experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Stanley Milgram set up an experiment where he had volunteers thinking they were doing a memory experiment. The volunteers would ask a series of questions to a person whom they thought was a separate volunteer and every time they got a question wrong the volunteer would have to shock the subject. For every answer they got wrong the voltage increased up until they reached 450 volts. Each consecutive time the subject was shocked(he wasn’t truly being shocked, but the volunteers didn’t know this) the subject would let out a blood curdling scream. Each one more horrifying than the next. 60% of the volunteers went all the way to 450volts!!!
Another example of cultural norms: the rowanda incident. Normal people OVER NIGHT turned in to slaughterers. An entire society ups and commits mass genocide of another culture. Normal good hearted people, people that believe in god, health practicioners, doctors, etc, over night kill thousands upon thousands of people. Do you claim that this entire society is “Evil”?
These things are brought up in the world because humanity is not equal. And the more and more GDP a country has the more and more separated society becomes. Why should a scientist that researches a cure for cancer make 50,000 / yr when a wall street broker makes 300 million doing absolutely nothing? Why does a wall street broker make money off of the interest of the lower income society paying loans? We have a system built to keep the poor poor and the rich rich.
I don’t know if there has ever been a study done but I can bet a bottom dollar that a great majority of those that are rich, did not become rich on their own. They were born in to the upper class of society. There are those few rare exceptions, but it’s nieve to think that even half of the rich actually worked hard to become rich.
The simple fact is this: There is a limited number of status’s, money, and power in this world that leave the rest of society to compete for said status, money, & power. To think that EVERYONE can be rich if they wanted is another nieve statement. As more and more attempt, the harder the competition becomes.
Here’s a few facts about more equal countries(pulled from zeitgeist 3):
-Life expectancy: Longer in more equal countries
-Drug abuse: Less in more equal countries
-Mental Illness: Less in more equal countries
-Social capital (meaning the ability of people to trust one another): Greater in more equal countries
-Education: Higher in more equal countries
-Homicide rates: Less in more equal countries
-Crime & rates of imprisonment: Less in more equal countries
-Innovation: Greater in more equal countries
Which challenges the age old notion that a competitive society is more creative and productive.[end]
Now I haven’t looked in to the absolute truths of these claims but that’s because none of these facts really surprise me. You guys gotta see the big picture that these guys are promoting. It’s the reconstruction of the entire world. Obviously not all at once. Starting in a small area, testing the efficiency, and expanding from there. These guys promote a Technocracy government, where scientists and engineers, whom have no agenda for power or money, but only care about the betterment of mankind, lead the way.
Tisha you said these videos promote out of fear. I don’t see it that way at all. I don’t see any fear tactics being used in any of these videos. I see some bold claims being made, some of which I’ve looked up and found proof of myself, others I have not been able to find proof of. Like for example the vast majority of our presidents and vice presidents have in some way been tied to the top 13 most powerful corporations in the world. This is a proven fact. We know that the Bush family has had relations with the Bin Ladin family since before Desert Storm, both families own oil companies.
When I see facts like these, It’s hard for me to know what to believe anymore. How does a kid growing up in a podunk town who grows up his entire life aspiring to be the President of the United States one day even stand a chance? So I watch a video like this that promotes nothing except the well being for all of man kind and I am like, well shit!!! Let’s do it!!
I once listened to a song by A Perfect Circle years ago called Imagine. Great song. Nearly sums up the entire goal of the video.
If you guys don’t want to watch the entire 3 hour video of Zeitgeist 3, at least check out 1:20:00->1:40:00. If you think it’s still bogus after those 20 minutes let me know! I like hearing peoples thoughts about this kind of stuff, I think it’s an interesting topic to talk about.
“Our mind is like a cloudy sky, in essence clear and pure but overcast by the clouds of delusions. Just as the thickest clouds eventually disperse, so too even the heaviest delusions can be removed from our mind. Delusions such as hatred, greed, and ignorance are not an intrinsic part of the mind. If we apply the appropriate methods they can be completely eliminated, and we shall experience the supreme happiness of full enlightenment.”
Eight Steps to Happiness by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso
Yes I do. I think that power, greed, hate, fear, anger, jealousy, etc, etc are all tied to social influences, cultural norms, and status’s. I think that the elimination of all of these will create a better world. I think a world where everyone is fed for, and everyone is equal there would be absolute peace. (which we have the ability, technology, and resources to do right now…)
Before the monetary system was put in place crime still existed yes.. Why? Because people still wanted to conquer land, people wanted other peoples things, people wanted other peoples food because they didn’t have enough for themselves. I could go on and on.. But the point im making is yes, I believe peace is a possibility without religion, without separated governments, without status & power, without jobs that pay 300 million annually vs jobs that pay 10,000.
(You can still believe in god or whatever, but you don’t need to be apart of an organization that profits from you believing in god…)
I don’t know… I think that the evolution of the economy goes like so: Industrial economy -> consumer economy. Where the production of goods is a constant or increasing variable (which can only occur if the production of goods have a low shelf life//i.e. poor quality) This is how America’s economy runs right now. If Americans slowed their buying at any given time, the stock market would drop, the entire economy of America would drop. We have passed a point where being an industrial economy is no longer as advantageous as being a consumer economy. Asia will reach this point as well… in fact it has in some parts. Consider Hong Kong, Tokyo, Singapore, etc. All running on a consumer economy. They have passed the point of being an industrial economy. They run off of the buying and selling of the population in their cities cheaply made goods. All fueled by the brain washing of advertising.
The reason I think that The Venus Project is even a possibility is because of the internet. If it weren’t for things like the internet people wouldn’t be able to find out this sort of information. Things like I’m telling you. Actually not just the internet, even our colleges are teaching us about the wrong doings of big corporations, of the brain washing of advertising & mass media, of the ridiculousness of the mob mentality during presidential elections, etc, etc… A lot of this I actually learned in college as well!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KphWsnhZ4Ag#!
lol k I’ve done enough promoting for this venus project deal… I’m done I promise… ON WITH THE DISCUSSION!!! 
My biggest issue with this is you are confusing FACTS…:
fact [fakt] noun
- something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
- something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.
- a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.
- something said to be true or supposed to have happened: The facts given by the witness are highly questionable.
- Law . Often, facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence.
with an opinionated documentary. I’ve watched Zeitgeist and if you search deep enough I posted a link to it on the forum when it originally came out. These are NOT facts but well spun propaganda. Let’s take a country where everyone is equal like China. Yep China, in all its communism, claims to be factually equal for everyone. They still have crime, still have low education levels, still have drug problems, murder… Crime is just as bad in China as it is anywhere else. Again I would urge you, before you go posting a movie as fact you at least do the research and get the facts. Your entire argument is so far based on a very opinionated documentary and you are claiming it as fact. Its a straw house and as such lays credence that your entire perspective is based on false premises. It’s not up to me to prove it right or wrong though because it is you claiming it as fact, but not backing any of the perceived facts up with actual facts.
Sorry but if you are claiming your entire argument is based on the fact that you watched a documentary you have a long ways to go to prove any point. I watched a documentary on the Prison Planet that claims the WTC was taken down by a Government sponsored Death Star in space. The “facts” were compelling, but certainly not facts. Do I have the answers: No, but then again I’m not claiming I do and backing them with erroneous information I’m claiming as fact and not backing them up with any data what-so-ever. You’ll have to do better my friend
BTW, they changed Zeitgeist three times because the first two times the “facts” proved to be false just as their predictions were also debunked.
Well thats why I said the facts came from the movie. I tried to state that so you guys would know where im pulling this information. Like i said previously i dont believe everything in the zeitgeist movies… **What i believe in is the idea they are promoting.\B]
Chinas system doesnt work, but these movies arn’t suggesting a system like China. Sure there are some similarities to communism in this proposed idea, but it goes further than communism by eliminating politics alltogether. Communism is an incomplete idea. Looks pretty on paper but it still has some trap doors built in it to keep the rich rich and the poor poor. These guys are promoting total and complete equality for all of mankind. Money is entirely eliminated, food is free and abundant, instead of thinking about having to go to work to provide for your family, you go to work to create something you are passionate about for the betterment of all mankind. The last link i posted shows exactly the world they are promoting. I think it could would… Only if total equality was achieved though.
I like the idea of total equality. The race for more and more money and more and more power has only brought mankind out of touch with our inner selves. We dont even know what love is anymore. We think love is something where cupid strikes us in the heart and we’re instantly infatuated with love, well guess what? This idea was created through advertising. Just like many other notions. That smitten feeling is the boner in your pants wanting to be stuffed inside your object of affection. Once that wears off todays generation moves on to the next girl. I mean… Dont get me wrong I’m all about getting down with girls I meet I’m just as guilty as anyone else.
People dont know that love is caring for the homeless man under the bridge pissing himself. Who needs that kind of love? The world has become selfish, greedy, and numb. It’s harsh reality but it’s the truth. Just sayen… If you think it’s goin to get BETTER using the system we have in place now you need to take the blindfold off and look around you.
Might as well watch Wall-E to hammer the point home. It’s not just me that thinks this way. All of society is slowly realising this. I think with the invention of the internet this will happen sooner than we all think.
APC covered the John Lennon song “Imagine”. I haven’t heard the APC version, but Lennon was a genius.
I’ve really enjoyed reading your posts and a huge part of me wants to agree with everything you’ve said. I just don’t think there is any way to gradually erode the monetary system as you’ve described it. It seems like it would have to be an all or nothing venture. And as long as the people in power (people with lots of money) have ways of protecting it, I think the best we can expect is more of the same, with the potential elimination of the middle class.