Is it possible that a friend with whom I often go out is benefiting from my pheromone products? The target is a female friend of mine with whom I have a complicated history. We often go out in a group and one of my close friends is part of that group and recently, since I’ve been using the products, I feel like she’s been extremely flirtatious with HIM while I’m not seeing any positive results from her. I half suspect that due to some things in our history she’s just trying to punish me by flirting so openly with him, but it caused me to wonder if he’s getting the advantage of my products since he’s always around me when she’s around. Anyone have similar experiences or have an answer for me?
You might not be putting in enough effort to engage this girl, and she’s intimidated to approach you with anything but your friend seems much more approachable. In her mind you might be above her sociably, but this other guy is in your circle so he must be just as good. So yes, its VERY possible.
She could also be flirting with him to try to push you into making a move. Girls do it ALL the time! She’s probably trying to tell you (with her actions) something along the lines of, “Ask me out stupid. Before it’s too late.”
Wolfishgrin brings up some very valid points:
You are giving the guy social proof by emanating a high status vibe and he’s your friend. What you need to do, is use that to your benefit by making sure she sees you as a “leader of me,” by being exactly that a leader.
Take charge of this group, be the one who takes the initiative by changing venues, making plans with the attitude of “this is where I and all of the fun will be.” Don’t be a dancing monkey, but be the guy they want to all be with.
She could also be punishing you, trying to make you jealous etc. But then she could very well be interested in this guy and thinking you’ve already blown your chance.
Great responses guys!
Love it when I learn a new perspective.
It’s a complicated relationship that would take too long to explain in detail but the short of it is that we dated briefly about 2 years ago when we first met but the timing was bad because after about 4 weeks the ex kind of came back in the picture and messed it all up. We’ve stayed friends and she’s single now but in the interim we had some drama because I fooled around with a friend of hers and she felt like it was all being done behind her back so she felt some sense of betrayal (even though she only regarded me as a friend! but whatever… women!). It almost ruined our friendship. Anyway, we’ve gotten past it but she’s never given ANY indication that she wants me to make a move. If anything, she always seems concerned that I like her and that we spend too much time together. Like I said: complicated. Outwardly, even though she and I are closer than she is with any of her other guy friends, she’s the least affectionate toward me. I think she harbors some resentment still. I know my friend isn’t really her type. In fact, he used to rub her the wrong way initially and she didn’t care for him too much I think. Now she flirts with him like crazy so I wonder if she’s just punishing me or if it’s because of the pheromones that she’s detecting on me but benefiting him because our relationship is too complicated for her to react to me.
It’s not so simple to just make a move. We’ve been friends for 2 years now. There’s a good friendship at stake. It would be far easier if I’d just met her. Then making a move wouldn’t be an issue. Before I risk a friendship, I want SOME positive indicators that she wouldn’t recoil at the idea because that’s the feeling I’ve had until now. I’ve never been one to play games, but I feel like I’m going to have to try to make her jealous to figure out if she likes me or not. If she’s going to flirt so freely with one of my close friends (when she’s the one that acts like she’s so concerned that I like her) then I’m not going to feel bad about doing it.
Anyway, generally speaking, my question was simply if other guys that you hang around benefit from the pheromones you’re wearing, or do women only respond to the wearer? If the pheromones cast a cloud around you and benefit everyone in your sphere, then I’ll know I need to keep my distance a bit from my guy friends that I go out with. If women can detect the wearer or respond more to the wearer because the pheromones are stronger on the wearer, then I won’t worry about it.
You tell your friend to stay away from the girl. If he doesn’t listen to you, don’t hang out with him or do not wear mones when you three are hanging out as a group. Wear it with her when you see her one on one. Try to see her one on one. If she doesn’t want it to be date, just hang out casually once or twice. She SHOULD definitely notice the difference in vibe between you and your friend, and she might more likely choose you. Also, it is okay to use common sense to get girls, okay? 
Other guys definitely benefit from hanging around a high-social-status alpha person. If they think you’re great, then those you deem worthy as friends are also good.
One thing you mentioned in that last post… He used to rub her the wrong way. That could also be influencing it. They repelled each other. But she might be taking that as a challenge. She wants to win him over now that she knows more about him. She’ll feel like a relationship that starts like that was worked for. Earned. It’s the oldest story in the book.
If you value the relationship you already have enough not to want to lose the friendship, then don’t push for anything. There’s always another girl that will come along, and the next thing you know you’ll be watching the moon rise or some other special thing with her. It’ll happen. Put yourself out there for them to see though, tell girls about yourself and the things you’ve seen or done. Let them know where you want to be in the years to come.
I’ve noticed there are a lot of quality people on this forum. But that’s because everyone is sharing their experiences here. It takes that same kind of thing when socializing face to face for others to see that same quality. Good luck man!
Once again, great insight.
I would have to agree about the whole challenge part. This is the oldest story in the book, and the plot line of many movies, guy meets girl, girl hates guy, guy hates girl, guy gets girl.
For there to be sexual attraction there has to be polarity, a positive and negative charge. While likes may attract to some degree, what turns women on is that challenge, the alpha to their beta, or beta to their alpha, in the grand scheme of things it doesn’t really matter in that one moment who is which, there just has to be polarity for sexual attraction to occur.
Read David Deida’s The Way of The Superior Man and The Enlightened Sexual Manual for a more in depth look at polarity.
All great points. The relationship is a bit to complicated for me to delve into in great detail, but this girl and I are pretty close friends. If we weren’t, things would be easier. I’m not shy about making moves. It becomes more difficult when there are friendship ramifications. As for my friend, he’s a close friend and he knows how I feel about the chick. He’s on my side and wouldn’t do anything to undermine me. We’ve talked about it and he’s a little pissed because he thinks she’s using him to screw with me because of her past resentments which she may have never gotten over. She’s made comments recently that suggest there’s a bit of payback involved. So he won’t be indulging her flirtations anymore. When they’re over the the top, it actually makes him uncomfortable because he knows the deal and he’s my friend. However, I know her pretty well and I know that she’s never interested in guys that seem to like her right away. The ONLY guys I’ve seen her get hung up about are the ones that weren’t interested in her because she’s the type that HAS to have every guy like her. By all rights she SHOULD be interested in me. Not to sound cocky, but just in listening to her explain what she’s looking for in a guy, she’s describing me and doesn’t know it. She’s known for a while that I’ve liked her and that has worked against me. She needs a challenge. I’ve made it too easy for her. Been too attentive, too accommodating, etc… all the things women SAY they want, but never respond to when being courted. They only seem to appreciate those things AFTER they’re in a relationship. I think she flirts with my friend in part to punish me for her perception that I crossed a boundary I shouldn’t have with her friend and in part because he’s a challenge to her. He doesn’t fawn over her like other guys do so she HAS to get him to like her even though she’s not really interested in him. I know what I need to do. I need to be more like HIM. I can’t be so close and friendly. I have to withdraw some, de-emphasize her and let her see me get interested in other women so she doesn’t take it for granted that I’m always there and waiting in the wings because I like her. She and I rarely hang out alone anymore, and I think that’s intentional on her part, so it will be hard to isolate ourselves in situation where I can wear the pheromones and not have some free riders around me. Such game-playing is completely contrary to my nature. I’m very straightforward about things, but I feel like I know her well and playing that game is the only way to get her. I think she really wants a guy like me, but I have to be a different guy initially to win her over first.
By the way I forgot to say.
Have you ever been around someone who just had bad BO, or just smelled good. You start to realize who it is, your brain and sense of smell will essentially point that person out. It’s the same concept of pheromones, and also remember that we have natural ones on our body and mixed with how ours are, it gives a unique signature that’s your own. I can guarantee you that when you leave, that signal is gone or weakened and the person’s brain is telling them that it isn’t the person who you think is benefiting off of you.
The ones I’ve found an effect on others as a whole in general have been IH/IO/and IS. These ones facilitate the initial feeling and as time goes by helps with the relaxed/open atmosphere that you brought to the table.
First of all, I don’t buy that this is as complicated situation as you’re thinking. Secondly, if you’re worried about your friend “stealing” your pheromone advantage then you’re worried about the wrong thing. I’ll explain in reverse order:
Your pheromones are contributing to an alpha male image. But just like P51Mustang pointed out, just like with any subtle sensory stimulus, people will be able to get a sense of where its coming from given some time. You can always try isolation techniques (i.e. dragging her off for a private conversation) just so she can get a better sense of where the phero signature is coming from —but, keep in mind women are predisposed to being sensitive to smell and it’s a good bet she’s already made the connection.
Additionally, as was already pointed out, your friend is being social-proofed-by-proxy, just by being your friend. Don’t fall into the trap of trying to read into her motivations. Your post was filled with hesitation and concern over making a move, or taking any risk with your relationship. If it’s not worth damaging the friendship, don’t pursue her. Period. If you want her, get behind that desire and commit to it… but do not be tentative. I have very little doubt that you are subconsciously communicating this insecurity to her via your body language, your facial expressions and even your tone of voice. You’re actions therefore are not being congruent with the alpha image your phero-signature is communicating, which is red-flagging her. In essence, you’ve put yourself in the friend zone. What I would do: I would detach myself from the outcome. Then, I would rectify the communication issue with her. If you messed around with her friend, so what? Uncommitted alpha men do that. Unless you and she were specifically committed to one another, there’s been no breach of trust. By allowing her to extend that unreasonable expectation on to you, you’ve succumbed to her frame, and unintentionally beta-ed yourself. The trick here is to communicate that you never meant to do anything behind her back, and to assuage any fear she might have that this behavior is common. She needs to understand that she had no right to expect any sort of fidelity unless she commits to a relationship, but also that when you are commited to a relationship that you take it very seriously and would never stray. What I would not do: I would not judge her. I would not attempt to make her jealous in an effort to provoke a reaction so you have an easy choice determining your course of action. That’s her prerogative. Women are sensitive and more skilled at this sort of social manipulation and she’d likely see it, suspect it, and resent it.
In short, I think you need to nut up. You two have reached a gender detente or sorts, in which case it’s falls to the man to make the move. Open the lines of communication and get her talking. I suggest IH for this. Find out what her concerns and objections are, and straighten out any misconceptions she has about the both the previous and current situation. Be concise, genuine, and un-needy. Then give her time to consider the situation. You’ve both been friends for two years; she has the same concerns you do about trashing the friendship. Just don’t let her turn that into an excuse for not moving forward. Frame it like the strength and advantage it really is. And lastly, respect her decision. Best of luck.
I did have an experience where a friend was stealing the pheromone advantage. I had on 3 sprays of mx297 and a shot of p83. We went to get a bite to eat at a fast food place. He walked through the door first and i followed closely. Soon as he got in line 2 guys were talking to him like they knew him. My friend was in shock, and said something like “that was freaking weird”. I thought he knew them. The 2 guys were on their way out so they didn’t have enough time to sense where the mones were coming from, I guess.
I had this one kick me in the ass last weekend on a trip to Kentucky. I was there visiting and met a friend who I went to high school after he got off work. We went to a karaoke bar and I was wearing some cttm and p83 covered with some cologne. We were at a bar after it closed and were talking to several drunk girls outside the bar. He even mentioned that they were talking way more than usual as he did know them and acting a bit flirtatious even though they were 20 years and younger than us. They were focused on him but he was wearing just some old clothes and been working in a factory all day.
Skeeter your friend 'high jacked’ your pheromones.