because i am way too close to this,my words are more blunt.
you have 2 choices:
surrender to the idea that she may never get over your lying behaviour and follow her faithfully forever more in waits that she will see the magic hour that she knows you are for real
or
give up now because she is not worth waiting possibly 10+ years.
anyone who tries to say wait a minute blah blah everyone makes mistakes…
we do all make mistakes.
your not a bad person by any stretch.
but
take the consequences like a man (same for a woman) .
You can have a heart-to-heart with her and see if she finds it a possibility in the near future to give you a second chance, but I’d say she’s 85% likely to say no.
In the event that she does, your best course of action is to look for someone new with whom to start you new life, and truly move on.
It takes time. Moving on takes a lot of time. I’m in the process myself, and I’m only a month into it–I see an eternity ahead of me, but intellectually I know that’s not true. However, take all the time you need to ensure that your next relationship is completely fresh and has all of you in it, and you’re not just chasing a ghost.
Hi guys, I’ve been away from the forum for awhile, but I really need to read these posts tonight. . .things have not been so great for me lately in my relationship. I have been working to improve it for over a year. . .but now I give up.
Stick a fork in me, I’m done.
I want a man that wants ME for who I am, not what I can do, or any financial contribution I can make. Someone who is happy to see me at the end of the day. Who thinks I’m the best thing since sliced bread.
So, this means that I have to end an 8 year relationship and strike out on my own. I need a few months to get my finances together, then I’m out. I’m scared, I have two kids, and I’ve never been a big one for the bar or dating scene.
But I believe there is someone out there. . . and if I don’t find that person, at least I’ll have peace and the knowledge that I spent the rest of the best years of my life (I’m well into the best years) with an angry, unloving man.
Hang in there, Lor. It sucks big time, but it will all be okay in the end.
you know what? I agree with the second part of Lor’s advice - it’s time to move on. once glass breaks it’s broken - in my past relationship, i tried for 4 years to forgive and forget, and all it made me was miserable, because you can’t ever really forget, and in turn i made him totally miserable. it wasn’t worth it.
You can have a heart-to-heart with her and see if she finds it a possibility in the near future to give you a second chance, but I’d say she’s 85% likely to say no.
There is probably nothing harder to fix than broken trust. All things are possible but this is why it’s easier in the long run to take the hit for being honest. People will forgive you almost anything but lying, because it makes them feel stupid and as though they can’t trust anyone - including their own judgement - which is the worst feeling in the world.
And the past is not just a burden for her to carry around in the relationship - it’s a burden for you too, probably a much heavier one. Having to live in a continual state of “proving” is not fair to you either. Maybe it’s time to stop punishing yourself. You have no power in the past. Redemption is not about being forgiven by someone else. It’s about forgiving yourself and taking the lesson you learned to make your life better now, which will lead to better in the future.
I’d talk it all out with her, though, like LaurieNY said. You owe to yourself to state your case and your feelings clearly. I wouldn’t let her argue with you. Just say you want to express exactly how it is with you and whether she believes it or not is up to her.
If she doesn’t, move on, and take the lesson you’ve learned into your next relationship. It will serve you well, and having learned it, you have every right to be happy to be happy with someone else.
And I’d be careful about being too quick to accept labels for yourself. Real narcissism is extremely difficult to cure. You may have tendencies or have exhibited narcissistic behavior - most of us do, at one time or another - but if you’ve really changed, you’re probably not a narcissist at the core, and if you are, then remember that narcissists are always miserable and desperate to change when they’re losing a source of narcissistic supply. But once they regain it, the whole thing starts over.
It has to do with the narcissist’s own lack of self-esteem, so if you are making changes, then it is probably not a good idea to stay in a relationship that doesn’t nurture that.
Best of luck to you with this. I hope it works out well for both of you.
I want a man that wants ME for who I am, not what I can do, or any financial contribution I can make. Someone who is happy to see me at the end of the day. Who thinks I’m the best thing since sliced bread.
So, this means that I have to end an 8 year relationship and strike out on my own. I need a few months to get my finances together, then I’m out. I’m scared, I have two kids, and I’ve never been a big one for the bar or dating scene.
But I believe there is someone out there. . . and if I don’t find that person, at least I’ll have peace and the knowledge that I spent the rest of the best years of my life (I’m well into the best years) with an angry, unloving man.
ReaderGirl, I am so sorry. Of course you’re scared. It’s terrifying to have to make this kind of change. I remember when I put the deposit on my new apartment. I drove over to the office and thought I was going to have to pull the car over and throw up. He wouldn’t leave so I had to, with two kids and no job. I can’t say it worked out easily because it didn’t- but I’m still here, three years later. I’m more than a decade older than you, so don’t despair.
But you are also right that waiting too long often mean nothing more than more time passed being unhappy. And yes, you do deserve somebody who thinks you’re fabulous - because you are.
Thanks Vkat! I am feeling a little better today but still scared–I totally get the feeling like you’re going to throw up thing.
Chanting to self “all will be well and all will be well and all manner of things will be well,” only helps so much. Sometimes I need to hear it from others, too! You rock!
I want a man that wants ME for who I am, not what I can do, or any financial contribution I can make. Someone who is happy to see me at the end of the day. Who thinks I’m the best thing since sliced bread.
Well, that statement really resonates with me and puts my head right on something too. I’ve been stressing about something big-time and this reminds me of what I want too. Instead of worrying myself silly about rejection, which I am right now, I should remember what I want, which is what you said. I think everybody does, men and women. Sometimes we try to hang on to someone or “get” someone, not because it’s what we want, but to avoid the sting of rejection or feeling of failure…and forget that what we really want is someone who loves us as we are and therefore would never deliberately or continually make us feel that way. The drama of relationships sometimes eclipses their purpose - but it never makes anyone happy in the long run.
We get so caught up in winning or at least avoiding defeat that we forget what we really want. When we give up on that, good things come. Then one day it’s like, oops, I forgot, I really don’t think I want somebody who finds it so difficult to love me. That’s echoing all through this thread, which is way off-topic but certainly interesting.
Relationships go through a lot of sea changes, so who knows where yours will end up, sometimes a separation, emotionally or physically, will set things right and allow people to remember what they wanted.
Back to pheros, if you feel low, make yourself your own target. We do acclimate to self-effects so switch those happy pheros around.
Hey, you know although I agree that when a relationship breaks down its time to move on, but what about the second chance? I broke up with this guy 15 years ago, I caught him in a nightclub with someone else! He knew he had made a big mistake and tried to apologise and plead forgiveness by calling me every day for 2 months, but I was too hurt! It took me 18 months to get over him, I stopped going out and dedicated my life to my sons. Eventually I met Irish, I think I just settled with whatever life threw at me because I had lost the man I loved! Last summer I met my “Don Juan” again, he saw fat and frumpy me, not the slim, active, person I used to be, but he said that he didn´t care about that, that he still had feelings for the person inside. Not once since we have been together again has he said anything negative about my weight, even if I have a bad hair day, nothing! I have now lost loads of weight and people say I look so much younger and happier, they think I am 15 years younger than I am!! OK, the thing is, I still feel so insecure that he will cheat on me again, but then again he is different, he has matured, he doesn´t like to go clubbing every night like we used to, he likes to stay in with me and watch movies, make me dinner, have a cosy night in. He said that he doesn´t want to make a commitment and needs his own space, and at the beginning he wouldn´t stay over, now he comes over every night after work, and he says that he feels comfortable with me and enjoys my company. I know he´s scared, but since we broke up none of his relationships have lasted, nor mine. So maybe, just maybe, we have a second chance!!! Like I said, you got to give it a shot!!!
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Rebuilding, yes, though it is difficult and a long road we have started down countless times. I don’t know how many times she has already forgiven me. Sadly, I had not until relatively recently addressed my own issues so the same mistakes happened repeatedly and that makes whatever I say now that much harder to swallow since it’s been said before. As far as proving that I have changed, it does indeed take time, at least, it has taken much so far.
So far as discussing what makes her happy, we’ve done so numerous times. The results vary between “I’ve told you before”, “I just don’t know”, “I want a divorce and to go home and never see you again”, and “Talk more. Tell me all the bad things over again but turn it around so it puts me in a good light instead of the bad.” Or similar things worded differently. Now, I gotta say that reliving the past is difficult for me as I don’t remember half of what horrible things I’ve said and I mostly work from what she brings up. It is also difficult to bring up. However, I’d rather not get a divorce if possible, I love her and want to be with her. Though if she will never get over it… moving on might be the only way for either of us to fully recover from this.
That she could never get over my past lies or that it could take 10 years is a very scary idea. I think we both often feel like we just don’t know what to do. Frankly, I hate the idea of giving up. Everyone has good days and bad days and on bad days it only seems normal to feel like giving up, which is certainly understandable.
My critical comments have severely destroyed her self-esteem. (That anyone could actually do ‘negging’ on purpose and think it isn’t harmful to the recipient needs to experience it long-term. Not that ‘negging’ was my intent, but when every complement has a barb, it really tears a person up inside.) I hate the person I was and she knows this but resists that I have changed claiming that I haven’t done a good enough job talking and explaining often enough so she can feel how changed I actually am.
She’s given me multiple chances and she agreed yesterday to give me one more. I really have to be out of second chances by now though. Neither of us wants to give up (except on those bad days). If she continues feeling the same though I suspect it will happen anyway. I just have to do something. IFM worked nicely Friday though, she was in a rotten mood when I got home and in only a couple minutes she was in a good mood that lasted the rest of the evening. Saturday turned into a big talk day. Sunday we were mostly busy shopping. One day at a time, right? …
well, id be inclined to hasten my good feelings for the man who would tell me “i dont care if you hate me forever. id rather be alone than without you.”
and then allow her to challenge that for however long it takes her to realize that you are for real.
meaning you may go without sex for years before she lets you in again.
not only would you deserve it, but i doubt watching you suffer/wait for her that she would make you wait long.
if i knew i was worth someone going without and waiting forever, id want to be his sex slave
Trust is terribly hard to fix. This is worsened by my repeated efforts in the past along the same vein, which has led me to continually break any halfway rebuilt trust, prior to my dealing with my narcissistic tendencies. She constantly questions her own judgment because of how bad I was.
I have to agree with you that constantly proving is a terribly difficult situation to exist in. I have forgiven myself much, but her forgiveness does not come as easily as my own. Let her argue with me? Eh, I’m not quite sure how one prevents argument. Generally it seems I get kinda quiet and say little which has actually also been a problem as an incorrect statement not corrected leads to further problems.
I chose to state it as narcissism for simplicity, though I suspect it was narcissistic tendencies, I believe I am significantly improved through prayer and self-improvement (via schema therapy).
Whether it is a good idea to remain in a relationship that reminds me of the way I used to be, I’m not sure if that’s so bad just now or not. I have no chance of forgetting what it is I have changed or the way I refuse to ever be again. Whether it reinforces my narcissistic tendencies I just don’t know. So it is difficult to know what path to choose. For now, I am trying to repair the broken eggshell and put Humpty Dumpty together again.
I don’t understand “I’d rather be alone than without you”. I have said to her that I don’t want anyone else and that I will take the time it takes to make this right, that I do not intend to give up. It is difficult waiting for her trust and I wonder how long is fair. As you say, it is no less than I deserve for having been the way I was, even if it wasn’t under my control.
Okay, I deserved that. I didn’t communicate that well at all. I realize that from my perspective fair is forever, as I even said then. What I was driving at was how long is fair to her? However, I can kind of answer that myself by saying as long as she is still willing to try. It’s just that I have hurt her terribly and it’s difficult knowing that it is my fault (narcissism aside) because I said those things and caused her this pain and I want to make her happy which I have thus far been entirely unable to do. Do you believe there is such a point where I am doing her a better service by letting her go? She’s asked for me to let her go, but I love her and plead for her to stay and let me prove myself to her and she agrees. At what point am I being completely selfish by continually begging her for more time? I say things have changed and are changed… but was it too late? Perhaps only she can say, but she is so kind that when I plead for time, she always gives me chances I quite frankly do not deserve, based on what I’ve said and done.
Sadly, as a narcissist (or someone with certain narcissistic tendencies), lies aren’t under your control. You don’t even know that you are lying because you lie so constantly to yourself. A narcissist could be as genuine as possible and tell a lie, believing it entirely him/herself. It is entirely possible for a narcissist to honestly lie even about lying, they don’t really know inside themselves what the truth actually is because they have constructed a false image that they reflect to others. They don’t know who they are or what they think about anything and they are virtually incapable of empathy. It is also quite distressing that they can even fool themselves about their recovery, leading themselves and others to believe they have changed when in fact they have not. However, I believe I have fully destroyed my false self and I do not try to hide anymore.
dont try to get too embroiled with labels that the medical communities have placed on you.
if it feels real to you in the moment, then it is real.
if it changes by the next day, it was still real yesterday.
what i mean by this is that lying is just making believe something is true, but isnt what you feel true? even if that feeling evolves?
i guess i have implied that she is a victim here,which is false, and i am very sorry for that Ash.
i was treated as she was in the past, and i was NOT a victim.
i CHOSE to deny that something wasnt right and in my own messed-up head decided “but i loooooove him” and used that as an excuse to lie to myself as well.
you hurt her, and she allowed it.
you cant “do” anything to her, so dont worry about whether this is fair to her or not. no more pleading. she has to say yes or no to your advances, and thats life.
feel the way you are going to feel, behave accordingly,and what comes of it will be real in the end.
decide from here on out that you wont overthink it, and do what comes natural. because eventually, natural wins out…every time…no exceptions.
at some point she has to be responsible for her life,and her actions,too.
