Going to college vs. dropping out vs. not going to start with

Lounge
1

I’m in my early Junior year at college. I’m bored as hell academically. I’ve transferred from another college so have gotten a taste of two very different schools. I’ve visited loads of colleges so know the differences and how my personality fits in at each.

I understand the concept that college is meant to be enjoyed socially while gaining an academic niche to help you in the working world. But I already know I’m going to do something in the realm of business and entrepreneurship.

I have a lot more requirements (religion 101, biology 101 102 103, etc.) that I have absolutely 0 interest in and are a huge waste of my time/energy. I will probably be here for two more years, or two and a half.

My problem is I need to pass my classes but also want to start a business, and I’m having a lot of trouble dividing my time. I have a registered LLC, website and biz software, ideas, contacts, people behind me, and access to financial means/loans. It’d be one thing if the business was something small, but it’s going to be very expensive and my plans need to be basically perfect. But every time I sit down for a night or two to really make business progress and planning and connections, school gets in my way again. So now I’m doing worse than I’ve ever done in school yet can’t get the business off the ground. Before this quarter I’ve gotten mostly A’s, some B’s. But I just care so little it’s getting ridiculous.

I’m curious what advice anyone has and their views on college. I’m thinking just taking one or two classes at a time for like 4 more years rather than 2 years of 4 classes.

2

Here’s my view on education in general.

When I was in elementary school, I stopped caring about grades. Why? I realized they were an assessment on my effort, not on my intelligence. Since I was told that if I was smart, I could achieve, I decided that it wasn’t important to show my effort, just my intelligence. So I didn’t do homework, study, or review. But I did show up to my tests and rocked them.

Fast forward to college. I’ve been doing the same routine all throughout middle school and high school. Only thanks to my high scores on the SSAT and SAT did I get anywhere academically. It wasn’t until I took a year off between my 2nd and 3rd year that I really realized why I was in college. I realized, yes, I’m intelligent and capable, but people want to see effort. It’s effort that gets you to the NBA, not genetics. It’s effort that gets you into Harvard, not just money or connections. It’s effort that allows you to build a business, not just having capital to invest.

That meant, if I wanted others to know what I was capable of, I needed to show them my effort. Ever since I’ve been back, I’ve been getting As every quarter. Even the classes I didn’t like, and didn’t have any interest in, I went to, studied, and aced. It’s part of the hoops you gotta jump through.

When you start your business, you’ll have to jump through hoops too. Things that you have to do, that you really have no interest in. That goes for any career. There are the glamourous parts, and the mundane, boring parts.

Having a degree is more than just a piece of paper that states that you have taken certain classes. It shows you can organize your thinking, articulate your ideas, and act on them. It shows that you can understand, interpret, retain, and (most importantly) apply complicated knowledge.

You don’t need a degree, but it sure helps, if only to prove to others what you’re capable of. You can prove it in other ways too, but it won’t be any easier than college or necessarily more interesting.

I would suggest that since you’re already halfway through college, finish it. Why throw away the time and tuition you’ve already spent? Unless your business plan is highly time sensitive, you should be able to build your plans over your remaining years in college, then start it after you graduate, allowing yourself to devote all your time and energy to the business.

If it is highly time sensitive, you can take time off school (maybe a whole year, or just a semester/quarter) and apply yourself to get the business started.

I don’t really know anything about you, but I see a lot of kids around here chasing money. I’m not gonna say the whole money won’t make you happy deal, but you definitely lose sight of some other important things if you’re just concerned about business. The kids I see just going straight into business are bored as hell. They just delude themselves into thinking that a degree in business automatically means money.

You sound like a highly self-motivated individual. That’s great, and that’s exactly what you need if you want to start your own business. I would say, take the time to really assess what you want out of your life.

If you’re really sure you want to drop out and pursue this business, then do it. Don’t look back, and never give up. It’s an all or nothing proposition. If you choose to stay in school, develop your business plan, and try and implement it during school, but put priority on school. When you graduate, start your business up full force, and you’ll have some credentials to back you up.

Lastly, you might be surprised what subjects you might become interested in, that you previously may not have thought of before. It’s cliched, and I hear it all the time at school, but it’s also the truth. I hated writing and literature classes. I’m done with my requirement now, and I can’t believe it, but I’ve considered taking some literature classes to finish up my remaining credit requirements.

Good luck.

3

I’m on edge with college as well. But Phya you have cleared that up for me quite a bit after reassessing it in my head again. Conundrum I got dreams business wise and such just like you. Problem is we need something to prove ourselves even if business doesn’t work out. For me I want to publish a book but for me I’ve put it on hiatus not permanently though just to say that many books get published with only a few being truly fruitful financially much less having substance. I hate school to the core I’m trying to find something rewarding about it under its exterior of “boring”. Can you guys recommend a mone that would make me not lazy at studying and doing papers? I don’t know if TAF will cut it for me…

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Haha, glad you found something of value in my words. Sorry, no pheromone recommendations, -nols can come in handy when you’re writing papers (just a little now..), but other than that, the most important thing you can do is to make the decision to complete school. After that decision, just apply yourself. I mean, hell I’m supposed to be reviewing a chapter for finals, but I’m here on PT instead. It’s cool, by the end of the night, I WILL have finished my review.

Just. Get. It. Done. :slight_smile: Have a good one.

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Thanks Phya, you offer some good insight.

The problem with my dropping out at the end of the day is that I really do need to finish which you talked about. 1) My parents have invested a lot, 2) my parents would be disappointed 3) if my venture fails and I choose to stay out of business for a while I need a reliable backup.

The internal issue for me is that I really don’t think there are many hoops I have to jump through in business. I only am genuinely happy when I am truly immersed in something. That is either with love, or a massive project with an end goal, like starting a biz. I will ride it out to the bloody end if I think it’s the right thing to do. I will abandon it if I have the signs I need to leave it. Anyway, about business, I don’t care if I have to do my own quickbooks, I don’t care if I have to meet with an accountant and lawyer and banker on a weekly basis, i dont care if i dont sleep for 36 hours. As long as I’m doing something I love with an end goal I set, I’m totally into it.

School is the exact opposite. It is authority figures telling me what to do. It is an administration setting a set of requirements that don’t apply to my life interests.

The business is not super time sensitive. It might even be better when the economy bounces back. But I feel like I’m wasting time sitting at school and not getting a move on business. Because in a sense, I am wasting my time.

About the chasing money, i totally agree. The point of life isn’t to just experience one element. I like rounding myself as a person. I mean, I’m not even majoring in business, I’m minoring and taking extra classes. I’m doing psychology, which isnt exactly hard at my college, because it helps me with life more than business will.

I think the fact that I even propose the question to start is enough of a sign to show I can’t do the all or nothing you talk about. I have too much invested from 2 years of energy and money to give up now.

What I need to do is budget my time differently. I need to do what you described, just making the plan and potentially implementing it in the next 2 years, but only if it is 1) completely ready and 2) my studies are going smoothly.

6

Perhaps you can use your time spent studying to run small scale parts of your business. I know all about the balance and how hard it can be to acheive but it can be beneficial. Starting off slowly, especially with a limited time/budget can allow yourself time to discover things that perhaps would not be noticed until it was too late otherwise.

It’s worth noting that education opens many doors not only through the route of degrees etc but also the connections that you can make. I’ve been to more networking sessions this year than I had previously in my life and whilst the benefits may not be apparent at first you will soon be able to refer back to these connections.

I can’t tell you empirically which route is best for you but if there is even a small bit of you that wants to stay in college you should evaluate why that is and whether it holds any real strength. Just remember that althoughit may not techinically be true dropping out will usually be final and if the business doesn’t pan out (it’s a fact that the majority of businesses fail within their first year) then you will be faced with the task of picking yourself up without the college background.

One final thing to consider is that although we all like to kid ourselves nobody knows best all the time and many of the things which may feel irrelevant now or as if you are treading water can often proove beneficial later down the line, yet another thing I’ve experienced first hand. Good luck with whatever you choose!

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Good. That sounds like the right mindset.

Yeah, I hear what you’re saying. That’s what grades were to me. An authority figure telling me I’m worthless if I don’t conform to their ideas of proving my intelligence.

Here’s how I think of it now. I want the degree. I want the advantages and opportunities a degree brings to the table. If I have better grades, I’ll have more opportunities. So, in order to get what I want, I have to earn those grades, and get my degree.

Same for you. You know what you want, and you seem like the kind of person who will do whatever it takes to get it. So, if you want the degree, then just grit your teeth and work through it. 2 more years is just a brief moment in our lifetimes. It’s just a matter of how you think of it.

I’m not submitting to the authority, I’m doing what I need to get what I want.

Heh, well don’t waste your time then. Go out and experience college life. Fill every moment with something exciting or interesting. Business will be there, the few years of college won’t. If you think business might even be better in a couple years, then it’s worth the wait in both cases. You’ll have a better chance of succeeding and you get to enjoy the college life. Only seems logical to wait if that’s the case.

Also, DanMan brought up a good point. Sometimes the best parts of life are completely unexpected.

Cool, me too. Not too hard here either. Our papers are a joke sometimes…

Sounds like you have the answers. Good luck.

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OK heres my view. Yes school is important to some people. Some just dont need it. Look at half the billionares. Most of them dropped out of college and started their business which skyrocketed there success. Look at a bill gates. enough said. Steve Jobs (apple computer owner), Michael Dell, Ralph Lauren, billionaire fashion designer… etc etc are just acouple of billionare that dropped out of college to go find their dream. Sounds like you have your head on your shoulders, and are ready to jump at the next stop you come at. Seems like you got pretty much everything in order. Now i cant tell ya to jump you have to do that yourself. Sooner or later your gonna have to really sit down and think about it, either take that step or finish off school and go from there. Myself ive tried the college thing it didnt work for me. Im starting on my business myself. So as a fellow business man, i say go for it im having the time of my life and enjoying doing what i love doing. But anyways Good luck man i hope you figure out what you want to do.

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I’m going to college F/T and also working P/T, it isd a busy life but it can be done and it may the the right thing for you. To be honest I have been at a motivational low and have thought of giving up at some point. I am glad I picked up the pail again and am finishing this summer. A lot of people would say I haven’t always made the right choices, but I did what reflected me at that point and it brought me into situations that taught me valuable lessons. The other thing is that if you ever need to find a job, a degree in a marketable skill really helps a lot. There are so many people out there looking for a decent job with a HS degree and some jobs really require more.

Are you sure you are in the right course? Could you switch to something you can use for your business?

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If you’re going to go, make sure what you study is useful towards a career path of some kind. There’s countless numbers of people that take courses without knowing what they really want to do, or what they will be able to do with them.

My two cents.

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Yeah, thanks for everyone’s advice. I think I knew most of it, I just needed it confirmed by other people and I respect the people on here’s values and opinions in general.

Phya thanks for the thoughtful response(s). Your opinions definitely are steering me in the right direction. You phrased some things that I already knew in new ways that help me understand them better. Also, I think psychology will pay off in the real world, not necessarily for getting a job but for interacting with people wherever I end up. Good luck with your studies

Olfact I’m glad to hear Phya’s posts were somewhat valuable to you too. I don’t know of any pheromone that helps but I have heard of some putatives improving “focus” so that may lead you in the right direction. I find spaceland is fun to study with, or at least makes stuff better, but the results and grades I get aren’t necessarily better.

Thank you danman. I’ve evaluated my situation before, but hadn’t for awhile. I think that’s why I made the thread, it was about time to analyze my situation deeply again. I do not know which is better for my future. But what I do know is if I quit school then I have to rely on business alone. But if I stay in school I can still do biz on the side. When looked at that way it’s clear what I need to do, stay in school.

Tourch I’m glad to hear you’re doing so well. You said exactly what I wanted to hear, but probably what I will not do. You sound like you’re about to have a lot of fun pursuing your passions, but doing it with intelligence and caution. Good luck,

Sounds like we’re in pretty similar situations Butterfly. I think you brought up something I always take forgranted. Why am I in psychology? It may be right in the long run, or it may be wrong. But, I do enjoy doing art more, even if I’m not technically good. Or I do enjoy management more, but want to get a focus besides just business out of my college experience. I’ll think more about other majors, but I will probably stick with psych. I find it interesting, but I have no way to know if it’s right for me for later. I also will keep taking classes unrelated to my major/minor to see if anything obscure appeals to me.

Pheraoh, I actually took some time off to contemplate what I wanted to take. For me it’s not finding the right thing necessarily, it’s finding what I don’t not like the least :open_mouth:. Since I was in sixth grade I don’t think I’ve enjoyed nearly any academic class for the subject matter. The grade requirement affects my enjoyment too much. The teacher/lecturing is annoying to me, but then again group discussions and getting graded on participation doesn’t appeal to me either. Peoples’ points seem contrived because the vast majority of the time they are forcing things to say for a grade, not what they genuinely feel. Some do say what they genuinely feel, but they wait patiently until the time is just right and they have strong feelings, enough to participate. As a result, their grades suffer in participation. I understand I am diffiicult to please when it comes to school :smiley:. But what I do enjoy is learning how to genuinely improve my life, which psychology is the closest thing I’ve found. I actually do enjoy psychology somewhat, especially the upper level courses with specific focus rather than the broad beginning ones.

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No problem. :slight_smile: That’s why I’m studying psychology. I don’t plan on going to grad school to become a psychiatrist/psychologist. I don’t really know what I’ll do with it, maybe law. But I do know it’s been helping me approach the tangled relationship with my mom in a better, more productive way. That alone has been of great value to me.

Thanks, I’ll keep working hard.

Sounds a lot like what I told my mom the other day. I told her: I have the intelligence, ability, and confidence to accomplish whatever I want. The key is, “Do I want it?”. If I do, I’ll get it, if I don’t I never will. So, it’s not a question of “Can I?”..it is, “What do I want?”

Yeah, I find the quality of a class depends almost entirely on the professor teaching it. Some approach the class in a boring, mundane way each time. Others make the content interesting and engaging. Those are the professors you want to get to know. Talk to them during office hours, take more classes they’re teaching. You’ll enjoy your classes more.

The upper level courses are much more interesting. Basic psychology courses are repetitive and never teach anything new. I can basically play the Milgram shock experiments in my head. The Zimbardo Stanford prison experiment? Don’t wanna hear about it. Been there, heard that. Rosenthal’s study of teacher expectations? The guy’s office is right on campus, I hear about him in every class.

I’m set up to take a class in psycholinguistics next quarter. It sounds really interesting. As far as I understand, it’s about how we form language and how it can have an effect on our psychology. In order to understand the concepts more thoroughly, the basic foundations must be understood. And that is in every discipline. You must trudge through the basic, boring shit to get to the cool, interesting bits.

What’s even more interesting is working with the graduate students. I was a research assistant during the last quarter. I did data collection, entry, etc..for units. It was a great experience and nice to take a look into academic psychology. I plan on doing it again next quarter. I don’t know if your school allows anything like that. The UCs in particular are great for getting hands on experience with research. Some people I know have already published articles as undergraduates working with a professor.

Anyway, let’s see where life takes us. I’m sure I’ll be surprised, no matter what the outcome. :smiley: Good luck to all you guys and gals.

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Kind of late to the conversation but in my opinion - if you HATE your coursework in general (and by that I mean the core content of your chosen major, not the extra requirements for your degree/the work you need to complete to pass those courses) then you are in the wrong major.

If you can’t find a major that interests you I don’t think you should be in college - getting a degree for the sake of having a degree is not worthwhile… take the time to figure out your passion and follow that.

If you are interested in enterpreneurship why are you not taking a business major?

I think there are far too many kids in college who have no clue why they are there except that “Having a degree gets you farther in life” & “my parents expect me to go to college”.

All that being said - I’m one of those lucky fuckers who knew he wanted to be an engineer after my first year of highschool and going to university only confirmed that the engineering profession was the right choice for me. The reason I mention this is because I don’t feel I can give you the advice I gave without acknowledging that I’ve never been in that situation.

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never too late Wrlprchnx :slight_smile:.

Yeah, it’s not that I love psychology, it’s that psych is what I dislike the least. But it helps me in life in general which is also rewarding in its own right. So you’d say I was in the wrong major, which could be true.

But that would mean I shouldn’t be going to college, at least until I figure out what I want to do. Well, first I took time off, and it didn’t help me find any passions. It just made me kind of bored and dislike minimum wage jobs and internships that don’t pay. But the real reason I can’t quit now is because I’m a Junior. Because I haven’t quit already, which maybe I should have just not gone in hindsight, now my family has invested a lot of money that I simply cannot quit. I’ve also put in a lot of time.

I’m getting a business minor, I actually just completed it. It was either business major with psych minor or vice versa, and at the time I had to make a decision. I could either register for business major courses or business minor courses and either psych major or psych minor courses. Back then I was more into psych so I filled my schedule with Psych major courses that don’t convert to a minor and business minor courses that don’t switch over to the major. I got locked in that way.

“I think there are far too many kids in college who have no clue why they are there except that “Having a degree gets you farther in life” & “my parents expect me to go to college”.”

I couldn’t even begin to tell you how many kids I know have this exact attitude. It’d be much harder to find kids who did NOT have this attitude.

If I could do it over, I would go into a specific college program that supported a niche so I could get good jobs after it was over. But at the time I had so many people telling me different things I couldn’t figure it all out. I think that’s a major problem: college counselors, friends, and family all say different things and you have to not only go with your gut feelings but also figure out whose advice to take. So good job about choosing Engineering.. If I only knew then what I know now…

15

You could do a double major - Business and Pysch could you not

The biggest problem with liberal arts majors is that they are kind of like what a highschool diploma was to the baby boombers - A minimum requirement for a standard entry level office job.

You basically need a masters in almost any of the liberal arts programs to find a decent job in those subject areas (at least that is the way it is up in Canada)

I would suggest looking into doing a double major - might add a year more to your degree but will hopefully give you more value.

The best way to find your passion is figure out what you like to do (your hobbies, interests, what fascinates you) and look at what kind of jobs exist that support those activities.

Bowling is actually what started me thinking about becoming an engineer - Well before I really understood any of the physics behind it, I found ball core design fascinating… I was always looking through my parents bowling magazines just examining the different shapes of cores for the new bowling balls (I’m from a bowling family) a little research told that engineers design bowling ball cores and I decided that bowling ball core design is what I wanted to do. (I design fans now… it’s almost as good).

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Don’t worry about your major. Chances are in ten years you’ll be working in a field not related to your major at all. Look at it this way, my major was Art (Ceramics) and I’ve been a Computer Systems Administrator for the past 25 years.:open_mouth:

My Masters (Educational Technology) is at least sort of related.:smiley:

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Double majoring is a good idea. However, only one of my six biz minor classes transfers so that would basically be negating and overriding all the work I did for the minor. Instead, I plan on taking 2-3 classes per quarter and giving myself more time to start business and staying an extra year that way.

and that’s good advice about letting your interests drive your career. Definitely trying to do that. And that bowling stuff is really interesting. I never thought about the time and effort and creativity that is probably used in designing cores.

Also, about Canada, I almost went to UBC but declined and ended up going to a school in the states for closeness to home. Canada’s fun though I used to go snowboarding up in whistler.

Mtnjim I have heard that before and I’m definitely banking on that somewhat. at least psych will help me somehow in life is my hope.

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Heh UBC

I’ve got some stories about engineers from UBC… lots of backstabbing to get the best marks goes on there

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Hi Conundrum! :slight_smile:

I feel inspired to share my thoughts.

Your education is something that no one can ever take away from you. I feel that the time invested is short in comparison to the long term benefits. College isn’t the only way to make it, as well as learn, but it offers a lot of opportunities.

I believe that a degree is valuable. Not only do you grow as a person within and beyond the classroom… it tells others that you went through this process. It can give you more credibility in how people will perceive your abilities. The ability to show people that you have a degree comes with that advantage.

I say it’s wise to include finishing up school in your lifetime plans. Sooner may be better. Does your school allow you to take the semester off? At my school it was offered as an option to everyone - no penalty - no lost/extra tuition costs. You could also ask your academic counselor if you could take a longer period off, and then ask to become re-instated at a later time to finish up your classes. I did that myself when I was at senior status, actually. Later that year, I received my degree and diploma. :smiley: Also this might be an option for you – I always took advantage of the summer sessions because the terms were shorter, and the classes were more relaxed in structure and workload. I also really loved my college experience. If you plan and think it’ll work out, taking a hiatus to focus, might make you a better student when you return. *But this is important to consider: admissions and seats are becoming more competitive and scarce, so it would be wise to keep your seat occupied when you’ve already got in through that door. Beware of the possible outcomes!

I hope you are able to guide yourself down the best path for yourself. Good luck to you! :slight_smile:

Didn’t see all the comments up ahead of me! Good discussion and a good range of advice.

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Long term perspective: your beliefs and attitudes about what “education” means, conceptually, will shape your future in ways you might not appreciate at the moment. MANY aspects of life, down the road, WILL be built on the foundations you are putting in place now. it is difficult to appreciate the long term contribution a structred approach to learning will provide when you are in mid-life.

My observation has been that those with deep and purposive educational experience slowly, but powerfully begin to pull away from the pack, then pull far ahead with surprising speed later on.

Often mastering a domain that doesn’t appear to have an immediate purpose, perhaps statistics or logic of the origins of the first world war or philosophy seem dry and useless… however they do contain deeper lessons that will slowly expand within you.

Eventually you may reach a point where you begin to distinguish, instinctively, between the rich and disciplined thinking of the truly educated, and the less finely calibrated thinking of the poorly educated.

You may ask yourself at that point, when was it ?, how was it ?, that I began to sense this distinction and how important, yet subtle, this distinction is between different types of people, what is available to whom, what is foreclosed to whom…?

It’s often an undeclared thing, like you’ve learned to speak a second language which is intelligible to some and unintelligible to others…

So you could say that it isn’t merely the education you’ve been exposed to, but your attitudes about the ultimate form that your life will express, what sort of existence will be made possible by your level of engagement.