high fat, low-carb.. when men were men and women women

[PheroQuirk]

Dusk in Autumn: Why people in the past were different – more fat in the diet?
Dusk in Autumn: Why French, Spanish, and Italian women now look even better than ours
Dusk in Autumn: Low-fat diets make women more masculine?

Here and in various comment sections, I’ve bemoaned the masculinization of our female sex symbols, referring to the 1960s as the last time when they oozed estrogen, a transition sometime during the 1970s, and a falling off the cliff throughout the 1980s to the present.

These days, they seem much more lantern-jawed, long-faced, and strong-browed. Look at the girls in the music videos for “Girls on Film” (NSFW) from 1983, and “I Wanna Fuck You” from 2006. Or compare The Ronettes from the early 1960s, The Go-Gos from 1981, and The Pussycat Dolls from within the past few years. Ignore attractiveness – I’m talking only about how girly or manly their faces look. Even as recently as the early 1980s, they still looked fairly feminine.

I’ve always thought that this was a change in what the elite allowed us to see, and that it was probably a result of the Second Wave of hysterical feminism that erupted in the mid-1970s. But maybe the change is more general – that not only our sex symbols are more masculine-looking, but perhaps ordinary women are too. I wasn’t alive before 1980, but I’ve seen pictures and movies of ordinary people from before then, and my vague impression is that they looked more feminine. That seems like a better place to start: assume that the sex symbols are just part of a bigger picture. What could have caused this recent shift toward more masculine looks in women?

Americans started to cut fat out of their diet, replacing it with higher carbohydrates, sometime in the mid-to-late 1970s, when the current obesity epidemic had also just begun. (It didn’t become widespread until later in the 1980s.) Boosting our routine carbohydrate consumption will raise our insulin levels chronically, and this will be even more pronounced if these are refined and easily digestible carbs like sugars and starches. So does insulin affect how much testosterone or other androgens are circulating in women?

…
If you give women a boost of insulin, their testosterone levels don’t appear to change, but this is only during the short-term. When women with high insulin are given insulin-lowering drugs and followed up over the long-term, their testosterone levels decline. That’s the indirect evidence the authors refer to. …
Just as one example of how higher insulin could masculinze a woman’s appearance, insulin secretion leads to down-regulating sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG). Having low SHBG allows more testosterone to be converted to dihydrotestosterone, and high levels of this are associated with male pattern baldness. In an extreme case, women with polycystic ovary syndrome have hyperinsulemia, as well as a tendency toward more body hair and male pattern baldness.

A similar mechanism could affect the shape of their skulls – we know what women with high androgen levels look like in the face.

So, maybe the feminist movement of the mid-1970s had nothing to do with masculinizing our sex symbols – maybe this reflected a larger shift toward more manly looking women, due to a profoundly higher consumption of carbs (especially the refined ones) that would chronically elevate insulin levels.

…
Femininity – another casualty of the high-carb crusade.

[ariadne]

@PheroQuirk

Ignore attractiveness – I’m talking only about how girly or manly their faces look.

I was just thinking about this last night. Watch this video (and aside from being juvenile and hilarious), notice the first “hottie” that’s showcased. She totally looks like a dude in the face, to me at least. I see what’s hot about her body, but I was scratching my head regarding her face.

Jizz In My Pants

[ariadne]

To whoever repped me with the hottie’s name… thanks, but I knew that. She still looks like a dude to me!

[Phya]

Pause the video at 0:19 and you’ll see exactly how masculine her face looks. I didn’t really think about it before, but a girl’s body isn’t as important to me as her face. I’ve realized that a lot of women that some other guys thought were hot had great bodies, but not the most feminine faces, something that turned me off. I’d rather be with a woman with a very feminine, pretty face, with average proportions than a DD bra wearing, ultra tight body accompanied by a man face.

[Bella]

I think we’re on the same page here, PQ. I found this ages ago and have been tempted to post it ever since. Though this doesn’t relate to diet…“The information on this page allows one to infer how masculine or feminine different women are, and should be used to compare high-fashion models with glamour models.”

Thanks for the opportunity to drive this point home, hope you don’t mind me posting it here.

WARNING!!! IF YOU ARE OFFENDED BY NUDITY PLEASE SKIP THIS ARTICLE.

How face and body shape varies with feminization and masculinization

I don’t eat low fat foods. I also don’t eat foods that contain high fructose corn syrup or artificial sweeteners. I do, however, understand why this seems an attractive alternative to people who have weight issues or the potential. Everyone in this life needs a hand from time time but there are better ways to do it. Unfortunately the adverse effects of these products can often cause more harm than good in the long run. Truthfully, a sensible diet, exercise and a conscious lifestyle change is what’s really needed.

Anyways, my nickle.

Bella

[OoohYahhh]

@Bella

I think we’re on the same page here, PQ. I found this ages ago and have been tempted to post it ever since. Though this doesn’t relate to diet…“The information on this page allows one to infer how masculine or feminine different women are, and should be used to compare high-fashion models with glamour models.”

Thanks for the opportunity to drive this point home, hope you don’t mind me posting it here.

WARNING!!!** IF YOU ARE OFFENDED BY NUDITY PLEASE SKIP THIS ARTICLE. **

The feminist movement is credited here with being a reflection of ongoing masculinization women. I’m sure that even those of us who around for the various ‘movements’ of the 60’s and 70’s have a very selective memory of the female form from that time and before.

I recently discovered this vintage erotica site RetroRaunch! #1 Vintage Megasite on the net…if it’s vintage, we have it! with extensive explicit documentation of the female and male forms going back over several hundred years. After this awareness education from PheroQuirk and the hourglass Bella, the differences over the last few decades become striking.

This has effected what I look for in a woman. Saying that I want an old fashioned girl has a whole new meaning.

[ariadne]

@OoohYahhh

I recently discovered this vintage erotica site RetroRaunch! #1 Vintage Megasite on the net…if it’s vintage, we have it! with extensive explicit documentation of the female and male forms going back over several hundred years. After this awareness education from PheroQuirk and the hourglass Bella, the differences over the last few decades become striking.

I <3 this site! I’ve never been a stick figure, and it’s been apparent to me over the years that no matter how many times you read “guys like curves”, all you see is guys dating bobblehead Twiggy clones. I get holla’d at a lot, but that’s… not what I’m looking for.

http://xenomorph.net/images/bunny_car.jpg

[TheCentaur]

@ariadne

I <3 this site! I’ve never been a stick figure, and it’s been apparent to me over the years that no matter how many times you read “guys like curves”, all you see is guys dating bobblehead Twiggy clones. I get holla’d at a lot, but that’s… not what I’m looking for.

http://xenomorph.net/images/bunny_car.jpg

I’m a big fan of curvy women. I cook a mean steak. Big fan of low carbs and home cooking. societies view of sexy changes so much of our self esteem, we forget what we are SUPPOSED to look like to ourselves. I think a big morale booster to my wife was showing her how much she resembled the classic nudes and artwork of Frank Frazetta, a fantasy artist from the 60’s and 70’s. I am a big fan of his work. I think showing her exactly what I thought sexy was and that she was it, may have turned her on more than any alcohol or pheromones could do.

she is truly one of a kind; classic, alluring, smart, and sensual, extremely feminine, and I DIG THAT ABOUT HER.

[Bella]

@TheCentaur

*I’m a big fan of curvy women. I cook a mean steak. Big fan of low carbs and home cooking. societies view of sexy changes so much of our self esteem, we forget what we are SUPPOSED to look like to ourselves. I think a big morale booster to my wife was showing her how much she resembled the classic nudes and artwork of Frank Frazetta, a fantasy artist from the 60’s and 70’s. I am a big fan of his work.

He’s great. He also did a lot of comic book covers (including romance comics). An earlier, perhaps, more familar image of his work.

I think showing her exactly what I thought sexy was and that she was it, may have turned her on more than any alcohol or pheromones could do.

she is truly one of a kind; classic, alluring, smart, and sensual, extremely feminine, and I DIG THAT ABOUT HER.

That’s lovely. I’ll bet she’s just as crazy about you.

Bella

[OoohYahhh]

@ariadne

I <3 this site! I’ve never been a stick figure, and it’s been apparent to me over the years that no matter how many times you read “guys like curves”, all you see is guys dating bobblehead Twiggy clones. I get holla’d at a lot, but that’s… not what I’m looking for.

http://xenomorph.net/images/bunny_car.jpg

Oh c’mon. You’ve gotta be doing better than that. While back somebody said you look like your avatar, Tracy Lords. You wouldn’t make it 10 feet past me. I miss that girl. Never been anybody like her before or since. Since I was at such an impressionable young age (and I was veeery impressed) when I saw her movies, she has probably become a part of what I look for in a woman.

@TheCentaur

I’m a big fan of curvy women. I cook a mean steak. Big fan of low carbs and home cooking. societies view of sexy changes so much of our self esteem, we forget what we are SUPPOSED to look like to ourselves. I think a big morale booster to my wife was showing her how much she resembled the classic nudes and artwork of Frank Frazetta, a fantasy artist from the 60’s and 70’s. I am a big fan of his work. I think showing her exactly what I thought sexy was and that she was it, may have turned her on more than any alcohol or pheromones could do.

she is truly one of a kind; classic, alluring, smart, and sensual, extremely feminine, and I DIG THAT ABOUT HER.

Y’all gonna have a big time tonight. This an early Vargas from April 1944. Click on this.

Check out Pin-up Art from The Pin-up Files [Home] : Art Archive and Store

@Bella

He’s great. He also did a lot of comic book covers (including romance comics). An earlier, perhaps, more familar image of his work.

http://images.darkhorse.com/covers/300/11/11985.jpg

That’s lovely. I’ll bet she’s just as crazy about you.

Bella

And how would you know all that? You’re far too young to have been his model, even though there is a resemblence.

Yours,
OoohYahhhhh

[ariadne]

@OoohYahhh

Oh c’mon. You’ve gotta be doing better than that.

Not amongst guys my own age. My theory is the media has brainwashed them all into wanting Paris Hilton/Nicole Richie/Lindsay Lohan anorexia clones. I’m healthy looking, curvy, no fat rolls, but because you can’t cut cheese on my collar bones, I guess I’m out of fashion!

@OoohYahhh

While back somebody said you look like your avatar, Tracy Lords. You wouldn’t make it 10 feet past me.

Well, my real picture is currently in my profile. I think they were saying we had similar hairstyles, though.

My current Hollywood role model (Joan from “Mad Men” for those not familiar):

http://i35.tinypic.com/2d6lgdg.jpg

Haha, and after posting the above picture, I found the scene that was in, and the resulting reaction. Priceless:

[Phya]

I will stand and salute that.

[Butterfly]

Ariadne, aren’t you about my age?

Guys who want the media ideal and are more worried about what their mates think really arent mature enough for real love. A grown man is more about winning the girl of his dreams and connecting with her than using a trophy to impress his mates and connect with them. It is something that is pretty normal in teens but would be a sign of arrested development in anyone over 22. That said, you can find mature guys of 18 and juvenile ones of 35.

I used to have hormonal issues and irregular periods aswell as insulin resistance, but eating butter, liver, eggs and bacon, reducing carbs and exercise cleared those things up completely. My period is like clockwork now, and painless, my bum is rounder though I lost weight, my waist is slimmer, I went down two band sizes and up two cup sizes in the bra, so it is safe to say that I have a completely diffferent body.

However, I would still say that this happened for me inside the context of a natural and traditional lifestyle, and it is the whole lifestyle that did this rather than simply low carb high fat. I feel stress, taking the pill, chemicals in cosmetics, artificial sugar and the soy/vegetarian lifestyle are just as much contributing to people losing their femininity and masculinity. Those things were introduced and popularised in pretty much the same time period.

[ariadne]

@Butterfly

Ariadne, aren’t you about my age?

Guys who want the media ideal and are more worried about what their mates think really arent mature enough for real love. A grown man is more about winning the girl of his dreams and connecting with her than using a trophy to impress his mates and connect with them. It is something that is pretty normal in teens but would be a sign of arrested development in anyone over 22. That said, you can find mature guys of 18 and juvenile ones of 35.

Yeah, we’re about the same age, Butterfly. I keep running into all the immature guys, apparently!

[QuietGuy]

@ariadne

My current Hollywood role model (Joan from “Mad Men” for those not familiar):

http://i35.tinypic.com/2d6lgdg.jpg

[http://img4.glowfoto.com/images/2009/04/04-1821017486T.jpg

(http://www.glowfoto.com/viewimage.php?img=04-182101L&y=2009&m=04&t=jpg&rand=7486&srv=img4)

[ElectraComplex]

Yeah red was really hot from that show

I’m all curves myself 5’2" 38 29 42 1/2 no matter what I do baby got back rofl.

And I’m PERFECTLY happy being curvy. Hehe love the links everyone

If it looks like food smells like food.. Yup.. I’m prolly going to eat it

Anyone else fond of corsets? Aesthetics not practicality

[djandarial]

…please oh please let this turn into a corsets thread…

shhhhh… I’m not here… ok… go ahead and do that… and GO!

lol <– so a guy

1. I play the jizz in my pants extended dance version on the college radio all the time. Love It. I dedicate it to all those lonely guys on the football team, the captain, the center, and the whole defensive line LOL They got pretty pissed, but all those girls who those guys have screwed over in past months… LOVED IT! and could not get enough of me

2. Nothing wrong with a curvy lady, not everyone likes a size zero

3. “I will stand and salute that.” Not to be sexist, but I am not a ass man, but damn that scene with red was scandalus…

-DJ

[Mtnjim]

@ElectraComplex

I’m all curves myself 5’2" 38 29 42 1/2 no matter what I do baby got back rofl.

Al I can say is Yummmmmmm!

[xev]

FYI

Larger or heavier or fatter does not always = “curvier”

I am “curviest” when I am near the low end of the standard healthy weight range for my height (am in the middle of it right now). Which wouldn’t be quite as small as a size zero, but almost. If by curvy you mean at the maximal hip to waist ratio that my body can achieve short of plastic surgery.

Extra weight goes around my midsection. Very very unhealthy, and not too attractive.

[Bella]

Well, one thing that came to my attention long ago is…most men don’t like really skinny women, at least, not my men friends. I can’t tell ya how many times Wolf’s said to me about one actress or another…“She’s too bony.” However there are those who like fawn like elegance. Audrey Hepburn comes to mind. Of course she was certainly more than a bag of pretty bones! Her charm, talent, understated ladylike sexiness and intelligence had a lot to do with her appeal.

Bella