Now, it has been stated that pheromones don’t make other people act involuntarily, but I think that pheromones CAN make other people act involuntarily, but just to a certain extent in a way that neither of you would notice it.
I say this because I am in close contact with dozens of people at school and with certain sexual or intimidating mixes, some of them do embarrassing (to them) things very very overtly (gets the entire classes attention). Then the next day or sometime later, I see them quite flustered and they seem to stay away from me. I think of this as when the caveman first touched fire because it was to alluring to them. They got burned and decided to stay away from it for a while.
But later, they WILL come back for more if they can find me and flirt with me some more (escalating kino sometimes). Just like how the caveman learned to handle fire.
I don’t exactly know where the limit would be for involuntary actions, and I think that it would vary from person to person, just like everything else. For some, it may be a DIHL, for some others, they might be smote so hard that they want to hook up with you (I’ve been able to get this far).\
I would not say that people will involuntarilly do things under the influence of pheromones, but would lean more toward saying that pheromones can loosen inhibitions and make people do things that they otherwise might mask.
The cave man didn’t involuntarilly put his hand in the fire. That was a conscience decision, with a nasty consequence. He then stayed away from the fire for awhile, so as not to get burned again. Eventually, he was intrigued enough that he took another look and was intent on figuring out how to harness the fire’s power.
With the pheros, what you are seeing is lowered inhibitions and people doing things or acting in ways that they wouldn’t otherwise be likely to, because they are masking their feelings. Then, when they realize how they acted they became a little uncomfortable or embarrassed and avoided you for awhile. But, once some time had passed, they came back for more because they had actually only acting on something they already felt.
It’s just like alcohol. It does not make anybody into somebody that they aren’t and won’t make you do anything that you don’t want to do. But, can lower inhibitions and make you do things that you would normally try to mask or keep hidden.
Exactly. If pheromones broke freewill, well, things would be a lot different. Women visiting 24-Hour Fitness would be quickly overwhelmed simply by breathing the air. All that pumpin’ iron makes for plenty 'o airborne pheromones. Shucks, I’d stop taking showers so my natural charms would cause man, woman and beast to bow at my feet. Not.
Only insects and lower mammals are subject to involuntarily control via pheromones. If only it were that simple for humans. I will agree children, simple minded and drunks tend to have fewer or weaker social filters and are more outwardly sensitive to pheromones than harden pros and the more worldly. Doesn’t necessarily translate into behavior changes but you see it in their face.
I’ve been drawn to women I found revolting I suspect because of their natural mones. Instant wood but no way I’d touch 'em. We all defeat biological urges repeatedly every day: not eating when hungry, waiting to pee until after the meeting and not jumping your friend’s hot wife. One of basics of being human and what separates us from the beasts of the field and air.
The first girl I ever really loved comes close. She was far from being all that attractive, but there was something about her. When I went to pick her up on our first date, I was wondering what the hell I was thinking, and had I really been that drunk when I met her. By the end of the night I was pretty much hooked. Pheros? probably.
I think there are involuntary physiological reactions to pheromones, but they are things like pupil dialation, increased heart rate, change in vaginal secretions, etc. These things are usually not subject to our inhibitions anyway. They are also difficult to observe outside a colntolled laboratory.
The more conscious behavioral processes are subject to our rational inhibitory mechanisms. Although a first exposure may take a subject by surprise and the inhibitions may not kick in, the subject will quickly “learn the lesson” and begin to apply inhibitions appropriately.
Somewhat subject, in my current estimation. Perhaps we ‘randomly dis-inhibit’ just to calibrate from time to time. But the cumulative, sustained effect of pheromones can, I suspect, “wear a person down” … and when they randomly feel disinhibited (or are just tired, or mentally distracted) then perhaps the “learned lessons” go by the wayside and the person is surprised at how they react.
And it is a reaction, not a guided response when we say “involuntary”. The interesting thing is that we want to feel we are always in control of ourselves, so when we ~react~ to a pheromone in some way, we don’t ask “why did I react?” we ask “Why did I choose to respond in that way?”
And that’s the knowledge-asymmetry that a PUA can exploit. When the PUA says “I know you’re wet (hard) right now, I can see it in your eyes” … it frames the involuntary reaction in ego terms: being sexually aroused is framed as a voluntary action … so it must be something that the individual ~wants~. Moreover, when the exposure and involuntary response occurs over longer periods of time, ego-consistency also gets involved: “I must want this, and it’s not just a one-time thing, because I’ve experienced wanting this/feeling this again and again.”
In a bar, in a fifteen minute time frame, the alcohol does the “conscious ego disinhibiting” and the pheromones produce the stimulus for an internal sexual or affective response. Some are drunker than others; some, whether drunk or not, are more comfortable “going with the flow” of their internal responses and some more rigidly control their responses, almost as if fearful their bodies will betray them.
See the same group of people in that bar for three hours every Saturday night, and the dynamics change a lot.
And in a workplace, with perhaps 15 minutes of contact during an eight hour chunk of time, 220 days a year, no alcohol – that’s a whole different game.
