150 mcg Est
100 mcg Meo-Est
5.0 mcg TAC
5.0 mcg TAF
2.5 mcg P83
1.2 mcg P103
3 drops EOW
If you like hot, heavy, take your breath away, rip your clothes off right now, pure sensation, mouth on mouth, don’t stop til you drop sex… this is it. :DZoom!
Diane
Diane, you are actually getting pretty close to my Sensuality Mix. Have you read that string?
I wonder what your experience would be if you replace your TAC with a similar (or slightly larger) amount of TAA (or Instant Shine). I recently tried replacing the TAA in my mix with TAC. You’ve already read and commented on that post. If you are willing to try that, I am extremely interested in a woman’s experience comparing TAA vs TAC for sex.
We both use a P83 an energizer, a TAF focuser and a MEO-EST enhancer. My Sensuality Mix relies more on P86 and P87 where yours is weighted more toward EST and MEO-EST. That may be a male/female thing. Men are supposed to be more visual and P86 definitely provides a “Shallow Hal” visual enhancement whereas EST is supposed to be a female pheromone. I have begun experimenting with adding EST to my formula, and it has a powerful impact. The same can be said for P103.
The other thing I’d like to suggest you experiment with – it should be no surprise – is P86 and P87. After a good deal of experimenting I have come to the conclusion that the correct ratio of P86 to P87 is 5:1. I believe that P86 is more visual and P87 is more empathic, and 5:1 provides the best balance between aestheic appreciation and feeling. I think there is a big risk of P87 overwhelming the P86, though Tater’s “second base” formula uses more P87 (35mcg P87, 10mcg P86, 2.5 mcg P83, 50mcg MEO-EST). You probably want to keep your heavy EST, MEO-EST emphasis, so I’d suggest trying something like 12.5mcg P86 with 2.5mcg P87, if this experiment catches your interest.
Anyway, please keep us informed about your experiences with your “hot sex combination”.
W
Looks like you’ve been putting that EST to good use, Diane! Did you spray all that on yourself or mix it in a to-go?
Yes, Warren, I did read your posts on your sensuality mix. And I do plan on trying to incorporate P86 and P87. But, I don’t have those yet… next order.. heh. I received TAA recently as a free gift, but I haven’t had a chance yet to play around much with it. But yes, I will try to remember to do some contrasts… later… got a lot of testing yet to do with this mix! 
I’ve also been trying some variations of Tisha’s Bewitched mix, but my husband is so -none sensitive that he ends up bitching me out when I wear it even every 3 or 4 days… 
He did respond to it aggressively a couple of times, but the other times it was a real disaster!
My husband is a funny critter and it is very fun finding stuff that makes him feel really good. He’s one of those really brusque types, impatient, rough around the edges, take no bs, all-male. But he has very strong romantic, empathic, maternal, care-taking characteristics, and seems to be the very happiest when he gets to express those fully. So, he responds very, very well to the empathogens, and to those pheromones that elicite the care-taking response, like Est and P74.
But it is really fun finding a mix that lets him express and unleash not only those care-taking, but also the really masculine side of him. -None isn’t the way with him, so TUTH is definitely off the table. It turns him into an instant asshole.
That is why I was willing to try the P83, naked, as it were, without attenuating it with P86 and P87. The Est seems to have balanced that out really nicely. And I do find that I respond much more sensually and more immediately with Meo-Est than to -none, so the loss of TUTH is not a problem.
TUTH was hit or miss with me, but Meo-Est puts me totally in the moment with my husband. TUTH can be hot, but Meo-Est is pure heat, if you know what I mean <grin><snort>. TUTH can get me in the mood, but with Meo-Est it is as if I never left it.
And as for me, well I’ve already written a lot about what meo-est, TAF, and P103 together do for me. Once I took out the P74 (which puts me too much in my head) it really worked well, kinda timeless. And the Est… zomg!.. the way that it made my husband’s phero-signature stand out like the most attractive scents in the world… I just couldn’t get enough of the smell of his body and his breath. It was heady!
I really liked this mix, (can you tell?) but you know I gotta keep testing it over and over again… 
As for the “shallow Hal” effect of P86/P87 we already have a bit of a glamour between us. Neither of us has eyes for anyone else. We are very much in love with each other.
There actually was a little more Est and Meo Est in this trial than what I reported above. It was 164.2 mcg Est and 114.2 mcg Meo-Est.
Here is the mix details (all sprayed into a 5mL to go bottle):
150.0 mcg Est (150.0 mcg/spray) -> 1 spray
150.0 mcg Meo-Est (25.0 mcg/spray) -> 6 sprays
50.0 mcg TAC (12.5 mcg/spray) -> 4 sprays
25.0 mcg P83 (12.5 mcg/spray) -> 2 sprays
12.5 mcg Beta-Androstenol (12.5 mcg/spray) -> 1 spray
12.5 mcg P103 (12.5 mcg/spray) -> 1spray
50.0 mcg TAF (10.0 mcg/spray) -> 5 sprays
Perfumer’s Alcohol -> 1 spray
This totalled 21 sprays in a 5.0 mL to go! bottle. The totals per spray in the above mix were:
7.1 mcg Est
7.1 mcg Meo-Est
2.4 mcg TAC
2.4 mcg TAF
1.2 mcg P83
0.6 mcg Beta-Androstenol
0.6 mcg P103
I applied 3 drops of cops, neat: 1 drop split to inner arms, 2 drops applied to neck and chest. Then I sprayed two sprays of the above mix to my neck/chest, let dry, then covered with 2 sprays Pink Sugar. On top I sprayed 150.0 mcg Est and 100.0 mcg Meo-Est.
My husband’s first response was to take my hands and ask me why they were cold. I replied, “Because I need some loving.” That was all she took. He hugged me, kissed me, and took me to the promised land… Heh! Needless to say, I got hot really fast.
What was really interesting about this encounter and what made it very different was the quality of being so very right there and totally hungry for each other. This was the most passionate sex we have ever had. It was loving, intensely intimate, and primal.
Later on it felt as though his psyche was still permeating my whole being, very nice! I told him, “Husband, you rock my world.” He said I’m one hell of a roller coaster for him and he laughed. (He’s a roller-coaster junkie, btw.)
Thanks for your feedback, Warren. You’ve given me a lot to think about.
Diane
Hi, Takhisis. Both! See the post above.
Diane
We must have a similar biochemistry or something, Diane. I relate to your pheromone experiences. Personally I’ve had more bad than good experiences with -none products. Maybe it is because I am a blood type O. I have found that both P79 and P74 detract from my Sensuality mix. I like P74 in some situations for sure, but I’ve never found it sensual or erotic. If your husband doesn’t do well with -none, I wonder how he would react to P80. I do think a small amount of it enhances my Sensuality mix. It is suposed to be a masculine phero.
Given the circumstances, I wonder if P86 will enhance the glamour even more or if it will just be redundant. I am guessing it makes it even better, but I’ll be waiting to hear of your experience.
I’m O negative. He is A positive.
I accidentally gave myself a meo-est, est OD today. I put some 20.0 mcg meo-est/30.0 mcg est in one of those 5 mL rollon bottles from LS, and had added just a couple of drops of scent I made up in suspended in some perfumer’s alcohol. When I put the ball valve back on and shook it, the small amount of oil in the mix must have really lubed up the ball, cause it leaked all over my hand. Ah, well!
(It was a stupid idea anyway, cause there is no way to judge the dosage with those things. But all my little to go bottles got up and walked away somewhere. Note: put more to go’s on the list… sigh.)
I was home alone tonight so I thought I’d just leave it and see the effects. I took a nap and had the weirdest, most shimmery dreams! Very odd. I’m still noticing est’s ability to really enhance the sense of smell. And that was part of my dreams as well.
Thank you for the heads-up on the P80. I’ll give that a go also. But tell me, how does it enhance your sensuality mix for you? P83 seemed to give my mix a continual forward impulse to do, without the highjacking that you can see with P79. Is P80 sort of like that?
Yes, I do love P74 for its effect on others in the social mixes, and I don’t think you can do better for that, but it’s effect on me is more of an intellectual understanding, more of a global mental effect, and a desire for harmony around me. But it really shuts the heart centers down… so in a way although it promotes understanding, the understanding isn’t a viceral, “caring” kind of empathy. And I don’t find it sexy at all, actually the opposite. I think it affected my husband much in the same way. I had to take it out of my sensual mixes all together.
(Although, to be fair, P74 is totally effective in countering -none OD in my husband… it is astonishing how fast it works.)
Est, on the other hand, does give me a deep empathy and caring attitude - at least for my family. I noticed it really hard today, while fixing dinner. Cooking is an act that can be either automatic, fraught with annoyance, or a really loving expression of your nurturing of your family. While wearing est today and cooking, my attention was all on my family, how much I love them, and how proud I am of my kids and my husband. This is a really nice, easy, heart-bonding pheromone. I hope when the patent expires, and it becomes available again that Androtics will seize the opportunity to grab a piece of the action, and not worry so much about the cost. It is more than a cuddle pheromone… it is a cuddle because you love pheromone.
One more thing, my husband is very traditional by nature and family is important to him. But with the exposure to est, he is even more all about passing the understanding of family traditions down to his sons, and explaining to them why they are so very important. – nice!
Diane
That actually makes sense. There is a similarity between your and my tastes in pheromones because we are both type O’s. Are there any personality or pheromone differences attributed to the positive or negative Rh factor? I haven’t read of any. Type O’s produce more androstenone and your husband being a type A would, therefore, be less accustomed to -none and potentially overreact to it. Whereas, I, being a type O, apparently make plenty and, also, don’t need anymore.
To quote myself, “the ‘stop and smell the roses’ effect of TAF conflicts with the ‘hurry up and plough the field’ effect of P79.” It is hard to describe what P80 does, though it definitely does something important. It adds a sense of impetus and viceral desire without running away with it like P79.
I hadn’t noticed that EST enhances smell. I’ll have to be aware of that. Have you worn EST to a fine restaurant to see if it enhances the experience of fine dinning? Interestingly, I think that mixing pheros is more like cooking than anything else I can think of. I am thinking of mixing seasonings to get the right flavor. Have you tried P102? A couple of people have noted it enhances flavor.
EST is, “Oh, baby, baby!!” And I never use the word “baby” in that context – I’m not a child molester. But it gives that deep caring for your [adult] lover. P74, OTOH, is very cool cooperation. It is similar to P106, which I think is more chatty.
Frankly, I am sometimes concerned by some of the things that people suggest for seduction formulas. I know that peole react differently to different pheromones, but still it seems there are those who are looking primarily for cold, heartless, reptilian fucking. Even if I were going to have a one night stand, I’d want it to be as passionate and spiritual as possible. We are all just facets of the Universal One.
The EST patent thing confuses me. I thought you could not patent natural substances. That is the problem with synthetic hormones. They are chemically different from the real thing and cause nasty side-effects when the body doesn’t know how to use them. Aren’t pheromones natural substances? Does estratetraenol occur in nature or is it a chemical variation on something that does? Why doesn’t A.P.R. just synthesize the bioidentical pheromone that does what EST does? That shouldn’t be patentable – except by God.
There is so much to respond to here… I hardly know where to begin. I think I’ll start at the end, work my way to the top, and see how far I get before I need to turn in.
According to Tisha, Jasmin, and Mike Harris, Estratraenol is currently patented by another company for use in a single cologne, which they produce with nanomolecular amounts of Est. The patent will be up in a few years, at which point Androtics and others will be free to use it in a marketable product. At that point, Androtics may be willing to take on the considerable cost of manufacturing it again. They produced it at one point just to give us something to play with, but they cannot currently use it as an ingredient in any of their retail mixes… so it would be a money drain for them right now. I’m not sure about any patent loopholes, but my feeling is that Androtics is very dedicated to producing the real thing, not substituting a simalcrum.
We totally agree with each other regarding the reptillian fucking thing. I’ll have to post more on this later as my thoughts gel around it, but having gained some small experience in pheromone use, it is my feeling that these really do only enhance what is already there. For example, I don’t believe gallons of Est poured on a psychopath would make a single bit of difference. People are what they are. Maybe some of those who pursue cold, mechanical fucking, rather than the deeper, more spiritual sexual experiences do so because this is all they are capable of experiencing. This isn’t a judgement call and doesn’t imply any kind of superiority one way or the other. Genetically, we play the hand we are dealt – there is no choice in the matter. That doesn’t mean you can’t enhance what you do have, and I think that is what a lot of us are doing making our alchemical pheromonic brews.
The smell enhancement that I get from Est is very interesting. I can still smell traces of stuff I washed off very well with soap and water. But it isn’t universal, and it turns on and off - like my smell receptors have to have time to reset after a firing. So far it hasn’t enhanced the smell of anything negative - another plus for this pheromone. Note: this may be sex-related. As you no doubt know, this is the pheromone that is produced in abundance in the third trimester of pregnancy. Women, as a general rule have a better sense of smell than men… probably a survival trait, to ensure that really nutritious foods and substances are more attractive, and that offensive or dangerous substances are avoided.
I have played a little with P102, but I didn’t notice an affect at all with it. I haven’t given it a fair testing yet, and I’ll undoubtedly take another look at it in the future.
P79 is a very funny molecule. At every dosage I’ve tried, and in every mix, it just seems to launch random stuff everywhere. I’m ADD so this is particularly noticable to me. TAF, on the other hand adds so much crispness and beauty to my mixes, it makes you want to stop and appreciate. On its own it doesn’t quite do that, but it seems to actually remove some barriers to appreciation. It is like washing the windows so that the sun really shines through. Alone, the practical effect is that I am calm and centered without any of the internal distraction that even low levels of anxiety and self-consciousness can engender. Maybe this is some kind of ego balm, if that makes sense. Since the ego is really a warning system, whose job is protection of the physical body from real or perceived attack, a substance that calms those warning systems would certainly allow a whole lot more detailed stimulus through to the psyche. So the overall effect with TAF is that I’m a whole lot less in my head and a whole lot more in my physical/experiential self. And you know that is good for the sexy mixes, especially when you are in a relationship with someone you trust implicitly.
Okay, you’ve convinced me… <making notes: get P80!>… lol. This was one I hadn’t even looked at before. Thank you!
The Japanese have made a big study of Rh factor and personality. I think you may find something here in the archives about it.
Thank you again for a wonderful discussion. I’d rep you again but it won’t let me! You are a wealth of information, and I feel very lucky to be having these discussions with you.
Diane
Warren, I went back and reread your sensuality mix post thread. And I wanted to address something.
You are right that we are looking for much the same things in our respective mixes.
I was able to obtain the deeper sensuality by using Beta-Androstenol. After playing around with this pheromone a little bit, I found that using it with TAF and meo-est it does give an aura of immediate and immense, deep mystery. I didn’t want to use Alpha-Androstenol at all because I like my sex serious and deep, not light and giggly. The est provides the easy comfortable romance. So at least on this girl’s side, those two issues are addressed. As far as intensifying the purely physical sensation, meo-est and TAF… almost too much, if that is possible - -and Beta-Androstenol and TAF intensified the perception of the experience as a whole very nicely.
I’m looking back at that episode and still shaking my head… could that have possibly been real? It was that good. I can hardly wait to repeat it.
I made a nice 5 mL batch of this mix. To it I added 3 drops pumpkin scent, 2 drops of Lavender, and 1 drop of cinnamon. It makes a really subtle, clean scent, not at all overpowering.
K… I ordered the P80, P86, and P87 this morning… by snail mail… so I’ll get that sometime this week. I’ll make up some of the modified mix with these three and TAA instead of TAC. I may not live through it… LOL!
Diane
2nd Run:
Early this morning, after posting, I showered and applied 2 sprays of the following mix. The difference with this run is that instead of spraying both sprays to my chest/neck, I sprayed one to my chest and split 1 spray to my wrists.
7.1 mcg Est
7.1 mcg Meo-Est
2.4 mcg TAC
2.4 mcg TAF
1.2 mcg P83
0.6 mcg Beta-Androstenol
0.6 mcg P103
I left off the cops. Instead of spraying 150 mcg Est and 100 mcg Meo-Est on top to my chest/neck, I used 1-4-inch strip (roll on) 30 mcg/spray Est and 20 mcg Meo-Est applied to my left inner arm. I left off the Pink Sugar cover and sprayed a light Lavender/Pumkin/Cinnamon alcohol mix on top instead.
Then I climbed back in bed and enticed my husband awake with slow rubs up and down his back and promises of fresh, hot coffee… heh.
Usually, when he wakes he is up and facing the day, all business. Today he wanted to linger in bed. He asked me what my plans for the day were and I told him I wanted to finish trimming the tree, get some of the storage containers put back away, and jump my husband… ha! His response was to mumble to me that he didn’t smell any coffee.
He got up brought us both some coffee, then he jumped in the shower and I went back to sleep. That wasn’t intentional - I just drifted off. When he came back to the bedroom, he said, “Oh, no you don’t woman! You are not going back to sleep!” I opened my eyes and asked why not, to which he replied that I had too much to do. Then he jumped me, but in the nicest way.
The episode was very erotic, very passionate, and tons of fun, but not overwhelming. I still got the intensification of my sense of smell for my husband’s pheromonic signature. But I didn’t experience any of the overwhelming timelessness and sensation overload of the prior time. There was still an element intensification of physical sensation, but not quite to the same degree. Still a nice mix, but I think the two sprays to the chest, and a higher dose of Meo-Est and possibly Est was better. It was still good enough to knock me out for several hours, though.
Oh, and it seemed to effect my husband a little differently too. He was also not as overwhelmed, and though still peak passionate, he was more in control, and slightly more aggressive.
Diane
Monday (12/5/08) I decided to do a real world test of this mix to see what the reactions might be from those I’m not intimately involved with. I still have the flu, so I didn’t go out and about much, so this is a really limited test.
I had a Dr. appointment, so after showering, I applied to my neck:
14.2 mcg Est
14.2 mcg Meo- Est
4.8 mcg TAC
4.8 mcg TAF
2.4 mcg P83
1.2 mcg Beta-Androstenol
1.2 mcg P103
I also ran one strip 20 mcg meo-est/30 mcg est all the way around each wrist, and wore one drop cops underneath everything.
The drive to the clinic was about 20 minutes and I really noticed a desire to not be out and about. In the car alone, the mix made me feel vulnerable and a little sad.
Walking through the clinic I did not get any DIHL reactions, like I do when I wear MX335. But what was very noticable was the nursing staff going far and above and out of their ways to make sure I was okay and taken care of.
My doctor is usually all business, very pleasant, but busy, and she doesn’t normally waste time. But Monday, she took extra time with me and was a little on the more controlling and hand patting mode, kind of condescending. That was totally out of character with our many previous visits. But her concern for my well-being was also obvious. She put me on an albuteral nebulizer for 20 minutes, re-examined me, took 15 more minutes to talk with me, and made an additional appointment for me for Wednesday.
I had meds to pick up at the pharmacy. Normally the pharmacists are pretty curt, and Monday was especially crowded and busy. The pharmacists (I interacted with 2) were very nice and very patient, with that hand-patting feeling again.
Okay, so this was a very limited test. Even so, there was enough change in behavior (and it was really pronounced) to show that Est does engender concern and caring by those around the wearer. But it seems to really undercut any respect or authority.
Afterward I went straight home, since this flu is really kicking my ass too much to go shopping or anything. I do want to try it again in another type of venue, since people at a doctor’s office are supposed to be concerned for your well being.
But my initial feeling is that is great for intense sex, but unless you like being treated as an invalid or an infant, it isn’t so good for daily wear. I’ll keep my MX335 for that.
Oh, one other note: the meo-est/est/TAF/P103 that gets me so hot and bothered around my husband had zero effect on my libido while I was out and about. Isn’t that interesting? 
Diane
This is very interesting especially the vulnerable, sad, agoraphobic part. I wonder if that is a typical negative reaction to EST. It is always good to know what the down side is so we can steer the pheromone away from that. Also interesting that the mix that makes you hot for your husband had no such effect on non-targets.
Of course, we have to take into consideration that you’re sick. It is probably hard to judge how much that affects the outcome. Twenty minutes at the doctor’s office on the albuteral nebulizer – sounds like it is getting serious. Take care of yourself. If you haven’t gotten that new pneumonia vaccine, you might want to consider that when you get well. It seems your lungs are vulnerable this season. When I started taking N-Acetyl-Cysteine (NAC) I quit getting bronchitis every year. You’ve probably heard about the recent research that emphasizes the value of vitamin D against the flu. Get some sunshine if/when you can. I have a friend who’s a naturopathic physician who swears by cod liver oil. Apparently, there are modern varieties that don’t taste like crap.
It definitely sounds like they were treating you the same way people automatically tend to treat a pregnant woman! If I get into the habit of wearing EST regularly, I’m gonna have to determine the right amount of A314 to maintain a healthy level of respect.
Well, Warren, I just went through a whole year of tests because I have this esophagus that spasms so bad when I exercise that it causes heart spasm. They had to rule out everything before I can get a referral to a gastroenterologist who can finally diagnose what this is.
What the tests found out is a) my heart spasms when I exercise, in spite of my heart and arteries being in wonderful shape… great news considering I’m a 35+ year smoker; b) my liver is as smooth as a baby’s butt and works perfectly; c) all my endocrine functions are good; d) my cholesterol is good; e) my blood is fine; f) I have bronchial spasm and asthma (not news - been that way since I was 3); g) all my girly bits are functioning well; h) my upper GI is mostly normal; i) I have no incurable diseases; and j) I have a vitamin D deficiency.
Today, she put me on a short course of prednisone to clear up the residual inflammation, and I’m on long term Advair and albuterol… and of course supplemental vitamin D.
And yay! I finally have my referral to a gastroenterologist… who will do motility studies and finally undoubtedly tell me I have nut cracker esophagus.
Regarding the Fish Oil: I take Coromega… totally unfishlike… tastes like orange sherbet.
Regarding the Est… that’s funny! I was just thinking along the same lines today (re:A314), but in my case I believe that signature would really, really confuse people. 
Diane
o man, this is such a great thread ill be reading into some of the stuff u have in here that i dont have yet.. (TAC, TAF and meo-est) to see if i want to buy a bottle for myself
thanx!
Remmy - I have all three - TAC, TAF and Meo-Est. Each has their own little place in an arsenal.
Yup, and I’ve added P80 to rev his engine, and P86 and P87 for the “Gawd, you are beautiful!” effect - thank you, Warren!
So, I have a ton of xprmnts planned… Gawd, what fun!
Diane
i think i got TAF down.. its supposed to help u focus etc etc..
meo-est i think ur supposed to add it to help enhance stuff…
TAC i havent the faintest idea yet
so here’s a project for u, if u can say something about them in like one sentence, what would u say? 
(other than just go get urself a bottle of TAF so u wont be ADD )
<3