One of the things I noticed last night was my eye contact with people had totally improved. I’ve being trying to improve it for a while with a bit of success but I still felt uncomfortable looking at people. Last night eye contact was totally natural to me and I maintained it with everyone but I just put it down to how confident I was feeling. I can’t find a good source of information that tells you how to improve eye contact, its all like “look at some 80% of the time” so I think fine I’ll do that but where do you look for the other 20% of the time, especially if its a one to one and you can’t glance between different people. I didn’t notice anything different about my speech but I don’t think I would consciously notice something like that anyway.
I hope I don’t brake any social boundaries because if I didn’t I probably wouldn’t know. I mean, I’m trying to overcome shyness so looking someone in the eye can sometimes be uncomfortable, maybe I’m staring I don’t really have a good idea of what’s appropriate.
Nols in excess wil cause you to stare too much. Just go easy. Boundaries will seem to melt down, this is one of the ways it works. I find Androsterone (active ingredient in Instant Gentlemen) is good for balancing out eye contact- it doesn’t “force” eye contact as much, it’s very natural, especially if you have worked on eye contact outside of pheromones.
You don’t need alot of eye contact, it really varies by culture to culture and place to place, anyways. Just a little at the appropriate times. Too much is threatening or bizarre. I’m shy too and never really understood eye contact very well, but am learning.
Dont u THInk ur mixing too many pheros at once? I have by best times ONLY when I use a none product with 1 instant. But adding all those together would not be a good idea in my opinion. And ofcourse more experienced fellas might disagree
No, man. Androstenone sucks. I hate the stuff, I don’t even want to go near it right now, it can do nasty things to me in an OD (or to other people). It really seems to be a flight/fight/f*** phero- not very subtle.
If someone’s talking to you where do you look when you’re not looking them in the eye? I feel ignorant if I’m looking into space half the time and it feels inappropriate staring all the time. Like if I’m having a conversation with my friend’s girlfriend I can’t be staring into her eyes the whole time or it’ll probably freak her out.
Glance away, it doesn’t really matter much where you look (if you are standing in front of a store talking with somebody, glance into the store- move your eyes more than your head- occasionally look into the store by turning your head, but look back at the person to emphasize something). This stuff varies from culture to culture anyways- some cultures like in Russia love staring at people, whereas in Asia they don’t like much eye contact at all. The US is in between the two extremes and has alot of regional variation. Eye contact is a constant negotiation between too little intimacy, and too much, and everybody will have different boundaries.
It’s only important than you make some eye contact. You are always going to be the shy kind of guy. But if you can establish some eye contact, that will help. Watch other people talking, too, that gives you a good idea. The more you talk to people and get confidence, I think the more “natural” your body language will get.
I really need to get a grasp of this eye contact buisness. When walking round college I get a lot of girls sat down looking across at me they rarely smile just look, I don’t know if it’s intrest or disintrest.
Really the only way to do it is practice, practice, practice. When you walk around, SMILE, lock onto peoples eyes and when they are 6 to 10 feet (2-3 meters) from you say “HI” in a pleasant, slightly loud, way. You will be shocked at the smiles and "Hi"s you get back. Yes you’ll get some scowls and some people looking away. It may feel kind of goofy at first but you’ll get used to it.
One other tip. When in conversation there is a tendency to be very “left brained” which means you look at someones right eye and they look at yours. Practice shifting which eye you look at, not too much, that can get weird, just enough though adds interest to your vibe and helps engage the more emotion oriented right brain. (right eye-left brain; left eye-right brain) Again the only way to learn how much is too much is just practice.
That’s interesting that you bring that up. A while ago, I theorized that maybe it might be more effective to maintain eye contact with the right eye with women and the left eye with men to more directly impact the emotional centers in women and logic centers in men. I didn’t really think that sticking to one would be more dis-engaging. Any comments on sticking to one eye to connect to the emotion/logic center?
Phya, I could be mistaken but I think you’ve got it backwards. Left eye is in closer accord with right brain, emotional, functions. I’ve seen it said in some pu forums that sitting on a woman’s left is a good thing because it stimulates her right brain. What turned me onto this was a sales training program that advocated using the eye switching technique when switching from emotional to logical sales appeal. I’ve never used scripted sales pitches so I’ve never really been able to try it scientifically, but it made me conscious of looking from eye to eye and it does feel less intense and more open.
I know a guy who stares practically unblinking into my right eye whenevever he talks to me. I like the guy and believe he’s an awesome person, but I can’t be friends with him because of this eye contact thing. I asked him if he did it intentionally once and he said “Hell yea, I learned that from a car salesman. It makes people believe what you say.” I tried to nicely tell him that it was creepy but he wouldn’t hear of it. He was really proud of being able to do it.
Anyway, the best policy is to be as natural as possible. Eye contact is essential to communication but like everything else, it’s gotta appear authentic.
Yea, I did have it backwards. Thanks. Anyway, I couldn’t manage to just stick to one eye myself, and really, I glance around too much to creep em out with too much eye contact anyways. They’d think I’m uninterested before they think I’m creepy.
I cannot echo enough what Renny has said about eye contact and saying hello from a “safe” distance.
First, women LOVE friendly even flirty eye contact. They do NOT love you staring off into space or staring at their chest. Look at one eye, look into both eyes, half study them, analyze the color. Look at their moth from time to time when they are talking. They kinda realize sublimanally you are “drinking them in” but in an appreciative way - nothing creepy. Smile. My wife tells me that I am good at flirting with just my eyes. I tell her i have no idea what she is talking about.
I also used to do the hello from 6-10 feet away in college myself and got a LOT of hellos back. Now the hellos were just laying groundwork because it was often in passing. Sometimes made them wonder if they had met me in a party or if we were in a class together. But in reality it laid a friendly to questioning groundwork so that when we did encounter each other later we were already past the initial hello stage and could get right into a conversation.
It’s off topic, but I have a trick that would cure him of that pretty quickly. I can move my left eye side to side while keeping my right eye stone still. It freaks the hell out of people and instantly breaks staredowns.
This time, for an easy read and classification, I would suggest to present each report/experience thru the following:
TARGET: Identify your goal, is it to attract opposite sex/same sex and what type of attraction; is it to close a deal or pass a job interview; is it to aid you in your business/community/school presentations; to boost your mood; etc. any target you want is okay. The objective here is for us to have a point of reference as to how IG really worked out, and if it really helped you attain your goal.
STORY: Same old presentation of what transpired on actual testing/wearing. Includes savory hits and dismal failures.
FEEDBACK: Tell us here in two sentences what’s the effect on the user and on the receiver.
COIN: Then finally, coin your findings/conclusion/feedback in one or two words like “smooth” or “cool warm”. We must just find the best word here to coin IG for different ages/uses.
May I make a suggestion? IG is a fine product. 10 years old. Maybe it’s time to bring new products to market that people can afford. We have all these lovely molecules. Great things should be happening with P95, 94, etc. Some of us have stepped up to the challenge of trying to build MX’s. Including Wildflower. And yet, we are rebooting stuff from 8 years ago. With rare molecules that can’t be sold in 30 mL under $100.
When you have time, look around you at all the new formulas being tested at other sites. Don’t you think it’s time we moved forward? You know, I’d like to do things with P130 and whatnot. But, it’s the age-old problem here of grand plans going nowhere. The veterans start to get b o r e d. And I’m one.
BTW, the PM’s aren’t working. And another year passes, and we’re rebooting MX’s from five years ago. You really have some truly cutting-edge stuff, but you are at risk of getting left behind. And that’s coming from someone with positive feelings about the company. The average pricepoint for mones online is $30-75. A 30 mL of MX297 is double that. MX353, IH, IO, Instant Sexiness and A314 spray are all over $100 in the large size. And people like glass, because, after oveseas shipping, it doesn’t leak. But they can’t afford $100 for a basic social product. And the prices are only going one way. And it’s not down.
The future was three years ago, in the past.
Instead of talking about good 'ole IG (it’s good, no doubt), why can’t we reboot the formula with one of these molecules…something better?
What I am saying is that it is very, very hard to be a “researcher” here lately. If I didn’t really like some of the items in the catalog, it’d be hard to participate at all.
Oh, yes, where was I? I remember. I nodded off there for a moment. I will share something from my private test journal. Perhaps we can shift Ye 'Old Mones Board into 2nd gear.
I personally don’t feel much more than about 2.5 mcg alpha rone in IG.
I don’t feel TAK, TAH, TAL or TAC in it. I does remind me of about 2.5 mcg alpha rone and 12.5 mcg of another putative. I’m not saying which.
A314 reminds of a raw IG base with 5 mcg alpha rone, some -enone and some potent steering molecules that work at a about 1 mcg. 2 sprays of 2X IG is damned close to A314. Same respect, deference, etc. Not quite as much avoidance.
With some of these old threads, there’s no way to know if the current formula is the same as it was. They didn’t have 2X back then. A314 was way different, as was IJ and Sexiness.
Just so you know…even though I have some issues with how some mones sites do business, if we are going to be doing full-time pheromone nostalgia for the rest of 2014, I’m 'bout this close (holds fingers close) to joining the XS board. 'Cause I’d love to test me some named molecules for a change. My concern over certain issues over there is about to be mitigated by sheer soporific stupor.
And since Hitler and Stalin signed a pact, well, what can I say…
I am not privy to the plans for new products, but I assure you, that part of Androtics’ growing up, are exciting new products.
But those exciting new products will only see to life with proper research/data backing it up. I can only say that a lot is happening behind the curtains. So, let them surprise us.
Now, at the front of these curtains, I am seeing too the very things you are seeing. Some veterans getting bored, some actually stopping their active participation in the forums resulting to this kind of thread hibernating for almost six years. Some newbies contented to say hi, get the $25 GC, order and try, and vanish.
My point in trying to revive this thread is these: 1. There are plenty of new users coming around and we want to hear their take on IG too. It would be great for them to read the old entries, veteran’s experiences, but it would also be great for them to pitch in their own phero experiences and it would be much greater for us all (researchers included) to learn and relearn from the new guys. 2. I would like this to be a continuing arena of sharing of experiences, a field to maybe correct misconceptions in the past, and to affirm previous feedbacks and conclusions. 3. And lastly, I would like this thread to be a pool of data that might be useful for future releases. The future might come from here. That’s the reason I specifically asked for a TARGET. My observation on the past experiences posted is that some of it lacks specific target. Some users are content to be guided by generalities such as to attract girls and maybe get laid and so on, and thus some mistook IG as something and thus experiences failures in their experiments. Only a few forum posters did an excellent job in bringing the IG into the layman’s world, but I do feel we, and the new users coming, needs more.
Thus this.
(if this turns out to be a success, some old threads will be bumped back to life with this same simple rules/objectives)
On personal note: I am glad that veterans such as you are still holding the pherotalk torchlight. I myself, as a newbie researcher, am humbled that persons like you are always available to comment, share, and feed recommendations for new users and researchers alike. You and the all veterans around are our true online pheromones. And I thank you for that. We thank all of you for that.
About the PM problem, leak problem, and price concerns… i will bring this to the attention of the right persons/teams in the forums Thank you MMDI.
Some of these threads are new to some people. Others read or wrote to it long ago.
There have been many grand plans dating to the ill-fated consumer launch of retail AMMO. Less talk, more action.
My top priority will always be testing to obtain results. New, novel data that leads to new horizons. I think virtually all hardcore testers have this as their goal. 90% of all threads now are really basic combo questions answered previously and available via search or stickies.
Let us not turn this into an old-folks care home for pheromones. Many of the users in this thread, sadly, hav e chosen other forums or aren’t active anymore. I think that itself makes the point better than I ever could.
When people wanted to make ICM/MX301 or 353 or 203, John told everybody, “Don’t waste our precious molecules.” And guys like GHOST put forward some good mix ideas on sustainable mones.
It is good to have a learning forum for newbies. But really, we are devolving backward. We are supposed to take the training wheels off, not put them on.
Rebooting a few old threads once in awhile never hurt anyone. But it is not a substitute for innovation. We don’t need to reboot Kommander Whatever’s fallout thread. We need fallout formulas on the shelf that work.
Dude, sites out there are releasing new beta products and molecules damn near weekly. I don’t think there have been any MX’s totally made from the sustainable molecules, at least not anounced as such. No totally new MX’s this year. I think it’s a reality that has to be addressed if this is to maintain its cutting-edge status. If not you, who? If not now, when? And how will 353 or P96 endure the next recession. My fellow mature adults have come to know that downturns are a fact of life. Some products won’t survive the next one.
Now, I’ve edited a bit of this, because I don’t think the severe tone needs to be preserved for posterity. I think Brian has done a fantastic job. Very polite. And no other phero company, to my knowledge, is giving away $25 in free mones practically for the asking. I think there’s a lot to be said to that. And some pheromone designers at other companies have admitted not being truthful in their reports, losing respect in my eyes.
I think this quote may illustrate what I mean…and why a somewhat unclear mission statement at times creates unwarranted cynicism bordering on conspiratorial as Androtics name is invoked elsewhere. I never saw A314 as a conspiracy but a serious mishap that hurt the brand.
So, if the Golden thread of Jan. 2012 no longer reflects the Mission, you might instead articulate what does.
This is the exact opposite of the intent of an MX though. We are a research company who makes these MXs to test so that we can come out with new product. We can not waste resources making old product, we need the new products for research, which has been made pretty clear from the start. If we don’t get new research then we can’t release any permanent product like the Instant line or A314 . So if you want things to be around, then we need to advance our research. We must always move forward.*
Do you see what a great impact that was on female morale? To some newer employees/users…even Brian…you won’t be familiar with all the backstory. But for others, it stikes a chord. Not always a good one. Some people are still bitter over cops and A1. Think about it. You’ll see my point. Thanks.
You may return to regularly scheduled IG programming, already in progress…
Anyway, I couldn’t manage to just stick to one eye myself, and really, I glance around too much to creep em out with too much eye contact anyways. 
They’d think I’m uninterested before they think I’m creepy.