is he gay?

Field Reports & Anecdotal Experience Women's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports
21

#1 While alot of the reasons you have listed may be true it dosnt give him the right to treat her the way he did. Your right though he is not gay he is a a$$hole.

#2 You cant neg a person behind his there back so no we are not negging him. As I am sure you already know negging is something you do to his face because you have low self esteem and want to feel like you superior to the person. Women dont generally play the negging game to make us feel confident or better about ourselves. If we call you a A-hole we are not teasing because we think it will make you like us more.

#3 No we dont think all men are gay when they are not attracted to us. Fullmoon was just obviously frustrated by the way he was acting and trying to figure out why he such a A$$hole.

Tisha

22

Generally I agree. My psycho narcissistic GF was the first woman I’d met that constantly negged me. Mean-ass cut to the bone insults meant to make you cry. She had be in control of everything, even initiating intimacy. So I ignored her and she would somehow show up everyday to punish me. Lucky for me she was a nympho, probably partially why I foolishly stuck around so long. The OP’s friend sounds like a good match for her, even the same age!

Like Mineset suggests, there is usually an underlying issue. It’s likely he was hurt at a young age and is still wounded. Such behavior, however rude, is usually a means of protecting themselves. Perhaps he was molested, beat or rejected at a young age. My GF told me her stepfather molested her for years, so I cut her a lot of slack, but ultimately you can only take so much. It’s best just to steer clear.

As for the gay comments. I think most folks simply use it as a generic derogatory label and rarely mean homosexual. I overhear my students using “gay” to describe red guitars, tight British rocker clothing or unusual behavior. It’s an unfortunate use of the term but seems to be standard issue college and HS vocabulary.

23

apologies for unintentionally causing discomfort by using the label ‘gay’… it is just that i was extremely frustrated by the situation.

i am also very disappointed in him, nuff said.

24

oh, I took the gay thing to mean homosexual, given her description of him in her initial post (Christian, possibly in the closet, asked her out but didn’t act truly interested in her as a woman). I’ve known a few like that; they try their best to be straight, bless their hearts.

Her followup post revealing his assholery cleared all that up, though.

I would never use “gay” as an epithet - it wouldn’t make sense since there’s nothing wrong with being gay!

25

The bolded part is where society is extremely flawed. I still cannot find a smudge of evidence that can validate these claims that anybody other than the person themselves will ever know anothers sexual orientation. I’m still trying to decipher what defines somebody as being ‘straight’ and ‘gay’ other than attraction itself, which again isn’t determined, and cannot be detected by an outside source. The only way of ever knowing a persons orientation is if it is blatantly confessed.

If you want to argue that it is genetics, environment, or nuture… that’s one thing, but this ‘gaydar’ nonsense is just that… utter nonsense.

26

I agree, though I’m still wondering about the other side of the story. Perception is reality, and thus there’s no telling why he re/acted the way he did unless you had witnessed it firsthand. I cannot say, and refuse to say that fullmoon caused him to act this way, but the fact that she detailed that he WAS interested in her in the beginning, and then just slacked off to start insulting her makes me think that she either did something to trigger his disinterest in her, or some outside source like peer pressure may be the culprit.

I consider negging to be any form of negativity, whether it be in the presence of the subject or not. Personally, I do not like negging to the extreme that this guy took it (insulting). I do think that women utilize negging in certain situations, but I don’t think ALL women do. Actually, I notice that when certain women are attracted to me, and I do not find interest in her, she will nag to no end until I pay her attention. Neg/nag, what is the difference in this case?

I understand fullmoons frustration, but these derogatory comments in society have been pawned off for too long. My point is that you shouldn’t assume anything about anyone regardless of what you think may be true, because the fact is, you don’t know until you know. I know that she didn’t use the words ‘queer or fag,’ which is good, but I don’t know about what would have been said in public. People pass off as being these accepting open-minded individuals, yet they resort to these labels, assumptions, and stereotypes, all the while revealing their true colors.

Now as far as women not thinking every man is gay if they’re not attracted to them… it should be apparent that on some level you jump the gun, and assume that if a guy fits the stereotype, then your ‘gaydar’ starts firing. In my experience it seems like women resort to this as a means to protect their ego. I can’t say that all women do this, and I can’t say that the majority do, but it happens quite frequently in my locale.

My point should be clear… don’t ever assume anything about anybody regardless of how right you may think you are, because there’s so many factors in human psychology and social interactions that extend way beyond sexual orientation that it’s mind boggling.

27

Yes, I absolutely agree with your comments. The term ‘gay’ has been overused, and quite frankly, in an unfortunate way. To be honest, if you’re frustrated enough to call somebody ‘gay’ in the literal sense, then you should be gutsy enough to just ask them for yourselves. If they say ‘no’, and it goes against your perception of things, then whatever, let it go…there’s no need to badger or ‘gaybash’ people until they feel coerced into satisfying your assumptions…presumably on a false pretext, anyways. I’ve seen it all, have actually lived through people’s ridicule, even though I have always known myself to be straight (yes, I know my bodily functions, and there isn’t a soul on earth that can tell me otherwise… I can’t help the fact that I love women). This explains why I’m so defensive about the display of ignorance that I see everyday happen to other people. I was typically categorized as being ‘gay,’ going through high school, because I was the loner-type who had a few good male friends, but was too shy to approach the ladies due to a harsh childhood of rejection, through high school, and even into this present moment. No, not a virgin, lost it at 15 with an 18 year old girlfriend that I managed to get. Still, because I fit this stereotype, people assume and badger… oh, how innaccurate that ‘closet gaydar’ really is.

28

It’s all good fullmoon. As a lady, you shouldn’t have been treated in the manner that he displayed, but I do hope you treated him humanely as in not to be the reason for his behavior. In other words, as long as you treated him with respect, then his actions were uncalled for. Some women think they can disrespect men, and then in return, expect that man to be humble at your service. Unfortunately it doesn’t work that way, and I hope that’s not who you are. Definately let this one go, and find a man suitable and compatible with your wants and needs.

29

I don’t know about ‘science’ or knowing things with absolute certainty, but my sense is the term gaydar was developed to describe a real phenomenon. The literature on Androsterone:etiocholanone ratios and the impact I have seen on peoples perceptions and behaviour as I modulate my own pheromonal signature suggests to me that somebody’s vibe does communicate information about their orientation.

Appreciate that it’s a sensitive topic for you though, mindset, and that many people may not be all that attuned.

30

I did ask him, he said no. Well, I did wonder if he was gay in the beginning (closet gay in a strict Christian household) and was just asking me out because he wanted to try out a relationship with a girl. Hence the post about Inst Sexiness - not many chances to try that phero out since my job is crazy hectic, so I sprayed four + top-ups every hour on that night. Major OD? It was a smoky environment. I am not a bad looking girl, I got goo-goo eyes from almost every single man seated around us but the one in closest proximity (him) was absolutely, soul-disappointingly, lose-faith-in-Androtics-way unaffected, instead getting very excited and gesticulating wildly to me about a conversation with a male co-worker he had earlier that morning. I tried emulating his wild hand gestures to wave some Inst Sex in his face but … no effect. The rest of the night he watched bewildered as various men tried to ‘get to know me’ on the dance floor. Hence the original post title. Conversely, he could be a virgin.

Perhaps I didn’t pay enough attention to him after he ‘ignored’ me. Hence he felt I was making use of him for drinks. But I must point out that he is by character a very insulting person; people who know him have commented on that to me. He considers himself outspoken.

Will have to agree with you on this one. But we know how to do it (ie: flirtatious tone). He just looks angry when he insults me.

Oh well, OH WELL. I am getting too old to play games. I am twenty four. Perhaps I shall up my requirements to MATURE MINDED MEN THIRTY AND ABOVE ONLY. I honestly would rather go out with a man who has had girlfriends in the past and who knows how to treat a woman.

31

I was extremely nice to him. I kept my smile on even when he said something very VERY INSULTING (by the way, he turned up an hour late and when I asked if everything was alright, his reply was that he is always late and to get used to it) in the car although I could feel tears brimming. There I’ve said it. I put in so much effort to hang out with a person who asked me out and I was hurt when he thought I was stupid for putting in that much effort. I am still a girl when all’s said and done, I am not a toy to play with. And I’m furious because I wasn’t even attracted to him in the first place- until he started playing mind games.

Like I said, majorly insulting a woman only gets her into bed with you if she has major psychological problems. I think I have mild psychological problems alone agreeing to go on a date with someone like that.

groan I need a stiff drink.

32

I think that is all societal misperception at work, Pheroquirk. As individuals we are swayed by various sociological factors that we’re unaware of as vibes are inconclusive. Thoughts are not tangible evidence of your complete package, because they materialise as fast as they vaporize with or without our conscious awareness. I find it hard to believe that if you stood next to me, you could detect my orientation. I still stand by the fact that attraction is psychological, rather than biological.

33

YEAH! Exactly that. I told him about my job and he laughed in my face basically saying that he can’t stand people in that particular profession, and they are all whack jobs. He then proceeds to tell me that I have no life as I work all the time, unlike HIM who apparently parties every night and enjoys life. Every time he asked me about myself, he would shoot me down with an insult. At one point he told me I could walk home if I couldn’t take his ‘sense of humour’. He also uses phrases like ‘SUCKS TO THE MAXXX, MAN’ and arghh… this is too humiliating to go on… I think I went out with a 15 year old trapped in an almost 30 year old body.

where’s that stiff drink…

34

Not to hijack the orginal thread, but what do you think of the papers on etiocholanone:androsterone ratios? Have you played around much with etiocholanone and/or fem mones? also try wearing highish but civilised doses of very masculine mones whilst dressing/behaving in a more stereotypically effeminate manner… my experience is that people believe the mones, more than anything else.

35

Very interesting!

We probably all have psychological problems, mild or otherwise.

Amazing that you were not attracted at all until he started with the “games.” It appears that some of the games were hurtful.

Would you care to share just what “games” sparked your interest?

I’ve no doubt that many of the PUA tactics like negging are effective, but one always has to ask to what degree one is willing to degrade one’s own personality in order to achieve a goal.

There are cutting and hurtful people on both sides of the gender gap. It may be unwise to adopt those tactics to get in bed with one of them because they have good hair. ( I think it’s mainly guys that do that. Women in general have different reasons for being hurtful.)

36

Geez, at least someone can learn from my experience. He played the curiosity/insecurity card. Never really noticed him at all, just one of many faces. RANDOMLY one day he stalked me down via email from a friend who knew a friend and started trying to get my attention after work. I wasn’t sure if he was interested or not and that piqued my own unhealthy interest (in whether someone was interested in me; talk about being narcissistic). He played intense hot/cold and finally asked me out after a period of weeks when it was pretty much guaranteed that I would agree due to my own morbid sense of curiosity. Mostly I also wanted a sense of closure to this weirdness.

Does that help? Oh, he also told me I was hot… usually followed by ignoring me for a bit. Then again he was probably not playing mind games and is just hardwired that way.

37

definitions, fwiw

Negging <> an insult.

Mystery Method Ebook

The first sort of neg is the shotgun neg, which is an innocuous statement that would only be uttered by a sincerely disinterested person. It’s an indicator of disinterest. Of course, it’s not that you dislike her; not at all. It’s just that you hadn’t considered her a potential romantic or sexual partner. This IOD diminishes her sexual power and disarms her peer group. The power of the shotgun neg is in its apparent sincerity. She’ll honestly believe that you aren’t trying to impress her. Then she wonders why…
The simplest example of this is pulling out a tissue and blowing your nose. She’ll sincerely believe that you aren’t trying to impress her; (otherwise you would never blow your nose in front of her.) It won’t even occur to her that it’s really just a ruse.

Contrast this with the tease neg. Teasing conveys a cocky, playful attitude. It’s not perceived as inadvertent, but rather as deliberate flirting (but done properly.) Examples of this are “pull my finger,” “You can dress her up, but you can’t take her anywhere,” 'Don’t make me come down there," etc.
Urban Dictionary: neg

.neg[http://static.urbandictionary.com/thumbsup.gif](javascript:void(0))145 up, 30 down[http://static.urbandictionary.com/thumbsdown.gif](javascript:void(0))A light insult wrapped in the package of a compliment. Used by pick-up artists to gain and maintain the attention of women who possess uncommon beauty (9+). These women are immune to standard complements.
The classic neg

pua - “you have beautiful nails, are they real?”
(9+) -“not really”
pua - “Oh, I guess thats still cool”

pua - “that’s really cute, your nose wiggles when you speak”
(9+) -“no it doesn’t”
pua - “ha ha, there it goes again, sorry, its just really cute”

“I just kept tossing neg after neg at that 10 standing by the bar, and she loved it, she was giving me crazy kino”

38

I must say that would sound suspect, and most likely I would have started second guessing. I don’t know exactly where he stands sexually as in whether or not he wishes to be sexually active since he is a Christian (a lot of Christians are apprehensive when it boils down to any kind of intimacy - courtship is encouraged in a lot of family upbringing), but the way he acted towards you in the end is what throws all of this off, because if he were that strict in his beliefs, he wouldn’t have resorted to cutting you down like that, or so you would think. Sounds like a bad case of male pattern blindess, and perhaps frustration with himself since it’s possible he couldn’t feel connected with you.

Sounds like a lot of personal issues on his part. All I can say is that he will need to find out where he stands in life, otherwise he will end up lonely. Maybe he does have gay feelings, maybe he doesn’t, maybe he’s just confused as to why he cannot connect with women, or maybe he’s just a callous individual trying to compensate for a rough childhood. Again, that’s his problem, and he’ll need to get it sorted out. But, you need to find yourself somebody who will appreciate you. Let this guy figure it out himself. I’m sure that a lot of guys would love to have you around. You sound very real as do a lot of the women on this board, which I applaud.

There are definately mature men around your age, fullmoon. I just wish I could run into the mature women - in my locale. :wink:

39

Forgive me, but I don’t believe you mentioned that part. LOL. Sorry, but now it’s starting to get to be a little eerie, but then again, there’s supposedly a 45 year old virgin on the new Mystery VH1 show. I definately have ruled out the fact that he was using a form of negging to no discretion, he was just blatantly insulting you, which we have all now concluded based on your account. Yeah, you don’t need a loser like that… the guy needs to get some shit sorted out.

40

I’m up in the air with natural pheromone excretion, and their effects on people. I do know that androtics products work, but I’m unsure if it’s just a chemically induced reaction since they are synthetic. We still have yet to find out whether the VNO activates (atleast the last time I checked, which was awhile ago) in the presence of pheromones. By the way, no, I haven’t tried that out. Sounds like an interesting experiment, though.