ITNerd799's Excellent Adventure From Friend to Oh Baby!

Huh :confused: Where did you hear that ? Its not for more extroverted people. It helps open up deeper communication and connection. Increases feelings of intimacy. It can also give relationships a feeling of newness. It sends the same signal whether your introverted or extroverted. Extroverted people may respond more but you can say that of any pheromone.

I am one of those that prefer IH and while I like it all the time there is times when it will serve you well and times when it wont.

I think you should use a little Ammo and IO to cause some interest and a nice sexy attractive comfortable vibe. Maybe a little P83 with that as well. Take her to a scary movie. I love P83 in scary movies LOL. She will grab onto all sorts of things. When your alone like watching a dvd at your apartment thats when you break out the TUTH and IH. I would add the P83 but you dont have to. Use a 3 to 1 ratio. 3 sprays of IH for every 1 of Tuth. See how that go’s :wink: If things get serious I will teach you the glory road trick LOL

Tisha

Okay mini freak out time. So I talked to her this evening just before coming here to write this. We had a long lovely conversation as usual in the IMs. I told her I would be finishing setting up my apartment and once it is set up she will have an open invitation to come whenever she wanted if she just needed to get out of the house for a while or anything. She said she was going to be home alone all week but she would text me if she gets bored. Then her internet started crapping out again and I told her she should let me take a look at it to see if I can fix it free of charge of course, I could even come right now. She said it was not necessary to come right now, maybe tomorrow. I said okay just let me know tomorrow so I can make sure I am available and she said okay.

Okay stepping back for a second, she told me she was home alone for the next 5 days then said she may have me over to fix her computer issue. I can look at this a few ways, she is just using me for my computer skills or this could be some serious business since she is going to be home alone and might be having me over. I am not sure if it is official yet as she did say maybe tomorrow. I am freaking out a bit because I do not know what to do or how to proceed. I was expecting to go slow and steady and ease my way in but things seem to be escalating, at least they could be but what if I am reading this completely wrong. Should I keep approaching this cautiously. Should I try a sexy mix then? Or should I stick with what I used last time if this is even going to happen. It seems like a big deal considering she told me she felt uncomfortable with me being in her apartment alone with her when I was going to visit her across state lines at her school. No mention of discomfort here. Maybe it is all wishful thinking I am so oblivious half the time lol.

Keep you posted when I know what is going down tomorrow!

ITNerd

I might have gotten a little too excited over nothing, I might have sounded too eager, now it is down to we’ll play it by ear.

Should just leave it like that. That didn’t sound very inviting.

This is AFC behaviour. You bought her a rose, paid for a dinner, and are now offering to fix her computer for free. You are supplicating for her attention to you and making the wrong type of appeal.

I think you should really look into the PUA / seduction world and start reading books that are out there since this type of behaviour would be frowned upon by that community. This would be a cardinal sin. You are acting like her friend, her intellectual hor. You need to be more masculine.

Now you are going to run a risk of being incongruent to whatever pheromone you try to use to beat this friendzone. You have to learn to find some other way of appealing to her rather than trying to buy your way with her, otherwise, she will see this as manipulative and resent you for it. This is why women claim to hate nice guys.

This sounds like the wrong foot. Try wearing two or three drops of A314 an hour before you call her or see her.

She’ll probably be using you to fix her computer issue.

I think you have sounded tooo eager there. But her comfort with you has improved, but I’m not sure if the attraction has. Friendzone is really comfort without attraction. You sound like you are both best friends right now, or you are up in her friendship status.

Let us know how it goes – but try to supplicate less to her and use pheromones that are masculine. You want her to like you because you are a guy and like you for you, not to feign anything because you are supplicating to her by buying roses, dinner and fixing her computer for free.

Okay well I guess you are right. I have been down this path before and it has never ended well. I guess I see what I want to see and not the reality of the situation. Thanks for the advice I will take it to heart. I really don’t want to mess it up if I am making progress at all. I need to keep a cool head thanks for the wake up call! Maybe I am just not cut out for this, who knows, I am doing my best though.

I think when I call her after work I am just going to tell her I am too busy doing a bunch of shit for my apartment and I would not be available. If I take the initiative and say I am too busy maybe it will give me the edge that I need making her wonder why I canceled when I was so eager to help out last night. Making her wonder if she did anything. Wishful thinking maybe, I dont’ know, but I am so damn tempted to say I am available but I am trying not to be weak damnit!

By the way thank you kindly for this advice it is always helpful to get a girl’s perspective on what mones work, I mean after all I think you know more about the effect it has on women then most of the guys so your advice is invaluable. I will try out your suggestions and let you know how it goes!

Not going to get into too much detail, but here is the golden mix.

4 sprays 20 mcg p83
3 ih
3 drops a314

Basically long story short, I think mission has been accomplished, Jillian and I are together now. I don’t know if the mones really helped or if this was just destined to happen anyway, but I am grateful for them either way. Thanks for all the help and input. If I do any more testing in the future I will let you guys know!

ITNerd

Awesome, dude. I just managed to snag a girl-of-my-dreams 10/10 as well. Been working on it for 5 months now. Not sure if the 'mones helped, but I’m sure they didn’t hinder :smiley:

Yeah sorry about that, my little sister is a bitch. Anyway I left my computer on with me logged into the forum and she decided to mess around by planting false information. I haven’t even seen Jillian since our date last Tuesday. This is the mix I plan on using next time I am with her which I had written down in a notebook on my desk. She just took the info and decided for some reason unbeknownst to me post the info, hence the lack of details because as you have read I am pretty detailed in my retellings, I would never just say success and not explain the details. Disregard that post, in fact I am going to edit it out completely and be sure I do not leave myself logged in anymore lol. The mission continues I assure you!

Well congratulations for you! I am hoping for the same thing, if only it were true that I was successful, like I said my sister is just stupid lol. I would love to hear about it, do you have a journal that you kept during the 5 months? I am just curious what kind of mixes you used.

Ok, I know I’m far from average (in talking to guys on my dating site), but I don’t share “very intimate details” with male friends. Only with guys I am interested in.

Just be busy. Fill your schedule with hobbies, exercise, and activities with friends. This way you are not lying and it is not a game. Yes you actually have moving to do, which is good, but don’t even think of it as a “trick.” Just do what you need to do. Games suck, and when I’ve found out a guy was disingenuous it was a breach of trust that in many cases was impossible to repair. :frowning:

If a guy tells me about other dates, I just assume he’s not interested EVER, at all.

Another possibility is she’s hoping you use her advice on her.

You “decided to flip out”? That again is deception, and fighting sets a bad tone. Try calmly explaining what you said. Be firm and a little reserved to show your displeasure. Otherwise, every time (in the future) she will question your affection with every disagreement, as opposed to merely acknowledging that the two of you disagree on something. If you want a real, good relationship, making her question your affection will just convince her over time that you don’t truly care, and she will look elsewhere, or otherwise break up with you. Remember, studies show that the brain automatically weights negative experiences ten times heavier than positive ones. Like you might have to ride ten rollercoasters to forget you dropped the last scoop of your favorite ice cream.

Also, you should apologize for the manner in which you approached the disagreement. This does not mean you are admitting you were wrong, just that it was inappropriate to “flip out,” especially over such a small thing.

This will make the difference between appearing to be a man and a player.

/IMHO

Wow this is excellent advice. It is so hard when it comes to the dating world sometimes. You see I have tried and failed so many times and every other guy tells me to use the art of seduction and it all involves playing the game and playing with her mind to make her fall for you. I never really believed in any of that, but since I keep failing I must be doing something wrong.

I have since talked to her about when I flipped out and it is way behind us now. I don’t know it just all seems so confusing, all girls seem to be different, and all guys seem to be different and yet they all seem to be able to find at least someone in the long run. I have yet to find anyone, never had a girlfriend before and I am 24 years old it just makes me feel pathetic at times. So I decided to try and change myself but it is so much harder than it looks. I hate being deceptive so I have since stopped doing that and only tell her the truth 100% of the time.

The problem is I did try to be with her, we actually met on a dating site, and then went on a couple of dates, but she said I was the absolute perfect guy on paper but something was missing. I have been trying to hard to figure out what it was. I finally think I understand.

She has to know I still have feelings for her, it is really no secret so I wonder if she is just ignoring it hoping it will go away or if she really wants me to take action. The one thing that really makes me think she doesn’t want to be with me is that I offered to fix her computer issue and she said she didn’t want to just use me to fix her computer she will manage until she goes crazy. I told her it is not using me if I am offering it up freely, to which she replied jokingly that then she will use and abuse me every chance she gets. I don’t know what to make of some of the things she says it is all so complicated at times.

Now I am just walking on eggshells with her, I pay her the compliment every once in a while and basically tell her she will find a guy who is right for her, and I basically describe myself and she agrees that that guy sounds good but probably doesn’t exist. It makes me think she really doesn’t see me that way and never will so I am just trying my best not to come on too strong, but I don’t want her to stray and find someone else either. It is a delicate situation and I don’t want to mess it up forever.

I shall take all of your advice to heart as being a girl you probably know way more about girls than I do so I believe you when you tell me these things and I will do my best to do this. It is just a matter of how long I should wait until I make a move, how often we should hang out and let her feelings develop naturally if they aren’t already there, proceed cautiously but not too much that she loses any interest she may or may not have already.

Some of the techniques of “seduction” may be good in practice, especially for those of us who don’t know what we’re doing. :wink:

Like, being brave enough to touch her arm (I’m not, that’s why I mention this). Or learning to be busy. This actually means you are a well-rounded person with your own friends and activities and thus will not depend on her for all your entertainment, or otherwise “encourage” her to never leave your side. (Creepy, if you think about it that way.) This means you bring more variety and can offer up interesting outings for dates and throughout a potential eventual life together.

Just don’t assume the pretense, the “game;” not if you want something with an honest foundation.

You are NOT pathetic if you are selective in who you want as a girlfriend, but good job on changing your life. Do it for YOU, however, and not the possibility of a girl.

I dated:
• a 31-yo virgin IT guy who’d had a couple gfs (reminded me of a brother) :frowning:
• a 27-yo virgin chemistry grad student (long-ish distance, so he conveniently found someone closer)
• a 35yo machinist engineer who’d only had one teenage engagement, one ex-wife of 2 years, and one gf of a few months.
• a game designer who’d had one gf and one ex-wife of 8 years. (Then I moved out of state).
They were great guys, who had just been somewhat shy, and selective.

It seems many guys these days fall under society’s impression that you must “bang” as many as possible, and “stay free” as long as possible, but I am learning so many guys go against this norm, and most are insecure about it since they don’t know what they’re doing is common.

The “something missing” could be something far beyond your control as well. Although I’ve never gone on a second date with any of the few guys who physically reminded me of someone in an awkward way (family member or creepy guy), so I doubt that’s it. Then again, I’ve never accepted a date with anyone I wasn’t genuinely interested in. (I don’t do it for the “free food and drinks” as some girls put it.)

There are a couple guys I have remained friends with at their request. Some I would date again if they had not rejected me for another girl. Some I would not, but I told them I would not date them before they suggested still doing things together. (I did not say “let’s be friends.”)

It’s not my nature to attempt friendship with someone I’ve barely met, if we don’t share a common somewhat-unique activity, like rock-climbing as opposed to hiking.

I have no idea what she knows. I, personally, am oblivious, and have been surprised when guys I thought were totally bored asked me for a second date. Mostly the ones I lost interest in fastest were the ones that did not attempt physical flirting, or the ones who (almost literally) tried to jump straight to sex. But as I said, I’m different. I apparently thrive with the guys who have been told they “are too ‘doting’,” the ones who jump past the faux-disinterest stage, and have the respect to wait for sex, to let that intrigue build on its own, but still show they have interest in that aspect. :wink:

I wish you the best of luck. I would however, continue to meet and date ladies from your dating site, just be circumspect about it. Quiet, gentlemanly, but not “hiding” or lying, and without lessening your intensity with her. That will distract you, and make you seem (to her) less over-focused on her. If you asked my advice on dating, I would assume you were not interested in me, so maybe don’t ask hers, or play the “try to make her jealous” game.

Also, learn not to think of women (even annoying related ones) in such terms. No woman wants to hear a guy talk about another woman this way, and even thinking it will show in your body language. If Jillian hears this, she will think you might talk about her like that one day. If you even think like this, it will accidentally slip out some day. Remember – you wouldn’t want some other guy (related or not) talking about Jillian this way.

Don’t be the “distant jerk,” just jokingly tell her she can buy/make you lunch/dinner as repayment if she’s uncomfortable with the arrangement, and thus you can “use each other.” :wink: (Make sure to sound very joking – call her, don’t IM or text.)

Wow thank you kindly again for all of your advice. Like I said a confusing and delicate matter. I am trying to achieve that jokey/flirty tone with her and we are developing a good rapport because of it, at least I think so I am pretty oblivious at times when things are real, and big on imagining things that aren’t real, which is why I have such trouble with girls. I can never seem to be on the same page as them so I tread lightly.

I would call her but we have established that neither of us really like to talk on the phone, but we love talking on video chat for 4-6 hours, at least we did when she was away at school, ever since she came back not one video chat so who knows what that means.

I am just going to keep up the charm and subtle hints that will get more and more obvious until I finally feel comfortable to make my move. I am afraid if I jump to quickly into it when it wasn’t too long ago that she said something was missing, but at the same time she has told me that she fears people leaving her when she shares her deepest darkest secrets because people have left her in the past before because of it, and that is probably why she always pushes me away. I took that to be a huge IOI’s but maybe I was wrong it is so hard. That is why the plan is to just spend time with her one on one and see if anything happens between us, and if I happen to be wearing mones at the time it won’t hurt, as long as I don’t OD lol.

Just ordered some MX297 because I decided to blind test something and I have heard people bring it up a lot as an amazing mix, but I have no idea what effect it has, I gathered it is more of a social/charismatic effect which is what I am going for I think. So having mones to reinforce that would be helpful. Along with some p79 which I still don’t know what that does either.

Any advice on the two? I was planning on trying them each alone to gauge the effect but if you think it should be paired with something else let me know. When I run some more tests I will report back!

ITNerd

Hahah, I see. Nope, I hadn’t had time to do any sort of “sweet-spot” testing, I just went in blind. This college summer class is only 6 weeks or so, so I had to work fast. I’d basically friend-zoned myself last semester and had to change my entire game to get her. Apparently some combination of these things (mostly my game - I can tell) worked. She now likes me even more than I like her - something I thought was impossible.

I used A1, A314, P83, IH, IS, TUTH (@ her house), & AMMO in different combinations depending on the mood I wanted to project. She says she thinks she might have to move away from me in class because her mind just goes blank when she’s sitting next to me. So I guess I’m doing something right, hahah.

PM’d you a picture just to give you a little frame of reference. Good luck in your continued quest! I’d suggest beating on your sister a little :stuck_out_tongue:

Cool I have played around with all of those a bit, except for A1, that is one that I don’t have in my arsenal. I don’t know much about A1 do you think it is a good mone to have or am I good sticking with everything else I have and seeing what works?

I am also working on my game and hoping that I will be able to up it, but not in a way where I have to be manipulative I want it to be natural and truthful so I am just trying to find that perfect balance of nice guy and asshole, at least that is what Jillian keeps saying is what her ideal guy should do, so of course I am taking her advice to heart. If I can be that guy for her it will work out beautifully!

I hear that it’s like P83 in how that creates a “crush” effect in the girl. Except A1 doesn’t do that. Apparently it creates lingering thoughts to where she’ll be thinking of you when she isn’t with you.

SECRET TO THE UNIVERSE RIGHT HERE (from my perspective):
I think the overwhelming majority of where my game came from was from saying “No.” (A main tenant of DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating - where I pulled it from.) I’d never known to say it to a girl constantly. Sure I’d do it for a bit at the beginning, but then I’d become constantly compliant and let her walk all over me.

Saying “No” or “Let’s do this instead . . .” or “That day doesn’t work for me . . .” or “Nah, I’ll tell you later” Is what she fucking loves. I am a VERY nice guy - I definitely put the pussy on a pedestal. But now by saying no, she’ll very often tell me “You’re the meanest boy I’ve ever known” or “You’re such an ass” or “I’ve never had someone be more cruel to me” or “I hate you” . . . and then she’ll continue making out with me, saying “How are you so fucking cute? Ughh.”

I’m convinced this is the majority of the reason girls want a “rebel” or whathaveyou. Difference being, I let her see that I really care when it’ll melt her heart. And rebel-types usually blunder and fuck up.

An example of a conversation we had in lab (before BF/GF):
Her: “So, tell me about yourself.”
Me: “I’m a male stripper, I already told you.”
Her: “You were joking about that, though . . .”
Me: “Oh, you think my major is a joke? Optometry is a great minor, but it’s not gonna give me much bank. I need to focus on what I’m good at.”
Her: “You’re retarded.”
Me: “Now you’re definitely not getting anything out of me.”
Her: “No - I! . . .” Angry pout
Her: “. . . So wait, you never told me how old you are.”
Me: “Yeah I did. 33 . . . thousand. Years old.” (I’m actually 22)
Her: “Ahahah, yeah? What year did you graduate?”
Me: " '72. Got held back a few times."
etc., etc.

Or making fun of her fat toes. Or pulling her shirt down when we’re making out and her midrift is showing, claiming she’s showing too much skin. (To which she responded “Wow, so maybe I should just cover up everything?” Me: “Yeah, a burqa would be nice.”) Or going to the bathroom and then going to play some videogames with her little brother while she’s still waiting in her room. Or withholding from kissing her because she says something bratty and finding it hilarious when she can’t withhold from me - her record is 11min. Or not letting her know whats on my mind EVER when we’re intimate. Apparently I make a face to where I look like I’m about to tell her something very deep. But never do. That kills her and she bugs me for days.

This is could be very hard with Jillian since she knows so much about you - but if your life is changing a lot you can probably tease her about how little she knows about you now. And mix in some IG for a mysterious feel. I think to get out of the friend zone you have to convince them that they don’t really know anything about you.

Swear to god I’m not plugging DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating here, but it helped me a lot. Shit, I didn’t even buy it myself, so go out and torrent it, hahah. That single tenant revolutionized my game. And it’s so easy, flirty and most of all **FUN!

**I disagree with ScienceStudent, btw. If your sister is acting like a bitch, feel free to say so. Saying all women are “bitches and whores” and saying your sister is acting bitchy are completely different. Always call girls on their shit.

It could work, I dunno it seems so underhanded, but I guess it is probably what needs to be done. I have to get her to see me differently and if I don’t change myself and my demeanor she will just keep me in the same spot. It really does make sense, I shall take that into consideration, thanks for the advice!