I just got my order in today. So I’ve took the afternoon off and just sprayed 60mcg of EST on myself…
Well, I feel alright!!! Not that it was a stressful morning, but it was a busy one. But now, it seems like a switch has been flipped. I am just really chilled out at the moment. This is good stuff LOL
I wonder if this is how women feel when exposed to A1, or something like it? I have had some blatant DIHLs off women wearing IFM or raw A1, and I often wondered what was going on in their heads. Sounds like an intractable philosophical question when phrased that way - “what is going on in another person’s head?” - but I mean more like I wanted to get in the ballpark of what women in general might be experiencing with A1.
I mention A1 because EST, from what I have read, appeared to work in an analogous way to A1 but for men. I also got some Instant Jerk, and soon I’m going to be combining the two for some wacky experiment. Also TAA, and a free to-go Spaceland (thanks April!)
Well, I should go out and find something social to do, see how people treat me while wearing EST. But I see why a poster (I think it was Sigma) said, in an old thread, that it’s (I paraphrase) difficult to get one’s act together and get motivated to do something with EST. It is a bit like… like I’ve taken a couple of codeine tablets or something. The “comfortably numb” phero
Thank you, Bubblebob! Well, I think this could be like “Instant Man Magic” or something. From what I read about EST it seemed like the polar opposite to Instant Jerk in a lot of ways… so I wondered what would happen if I combined the two - would they cancel each other out, or work orthogonally? If I added a bit of p79 to that, then things might get very interesting…
Oh, my typing has screwed up again it seems. I’m making loads of typos (but correcting them as I go) That aspect reminds me of my first androstenol experiences with IO.
Still haven’t motivated myself to get out of the house, LOL - an aspect that is very different to androstenols, in my experience (the self effects of IO for me, at least at first, were like “Let’s go out and say hi to the world!”)
That might well work, Diamond! As EST is produced by pregnant women it could be a potent signifier. If some guys for example are a bit lairy, the EST-signal could say “Calm down and behave yourself, there’s a pregnant woman present.” I can think of a few pubs where they should dispense a bit into the air… Also, it might help the wearer get good service, jump queues and what have you, in a very different fashion to A314.
Yeah, there’s possibly some sort of “homemaking” or “stick around to protect your mate and unborn child” thing to it - an evolutionary strategy by females to get the man to stick around and not run off leaving her to raise the kid on her own. Whereas -none may be like the man’s strategy to potentially spread his genes as quickly as he can - then he falls into the woman’s EST-trap
Congrats ntk, I suppose that makes you one of the oldies on here now!
In all seriousness, it may well be an avenue worth pursuing, if only to offset any aggression caused by wearing any of the -none products. Like you say, Instant Male Magic!
Also, P93 seems to be good at buffering even large amounts of -none, and on some level it appeals to both men and women. Tisha has said that P74 is the closest thing to EST out of the putatives, again that’s like “Instant Everyone Magic”. I wonder where P93 fits in, if that’s close to EST? There might be a spectrum of potential molecules with varying mood-uplift effects on men and women - so imagine A1 at one end of the spectrum and maybe EST at another (needs further testing!) and perhaps P74 and P93 are compromises towards the middle of this hypothetical “spectrum of sexual dimorphism”. Molecules that haven’t yet been synthesized could be “30% appealing to men and 70% appealing to women” or something like that, anyway.
I must drag my lazy ass out of the door now, and go and see how others are going to react to my EST-signature
Great report and interesting. I have never tried EST before but see it could be beneficial to my next order. I like p79 and think it could help with the EST. p79 sure enhanced my other combo’s.
I see EST to be a awesome vacation pheromone. Relaxing is one thing but to the max is another. I would be asking for room service all the time. Poor waiters lol.
P93 recruits others to help do stuff. It is a team player molecule. With P93 you are more of a team member and what you want gets done because everyone is just willing to pitch in and help.
Est recruits others in more of a care-taking role, which might include doing stuff for you if you are wearing it, but it is not the same. With Est, you are fragile and stuff needs to get done for you so you don’t hurt yourself. You are too valuable to risk. That’s the vibe.
I went outside… for about ten minutes. Yuk! the weather has turned atrocious. I ran back inside!
Thanks, Luke! Well, the EST could be tempered also, I feel, with some other pheros, to give it a bit more “get up and go”. It actually sheds some more light on P74 - the chilled effects of P74 but more pronounced. And as I recall, adding Instant Shine to P74 gave a bit of zest to the mix - not that P74 is a “lazy” pheromone in the way EST seems to be, but there’s something of P74 that hints at that. What I am going to do now is add a couple of blasts of my new to-go of Spaceland It will be interesting to see how things change.
Recruiting others including women too. I’m searching for threads regarding women reporting EST self-effects and women or men reporting EST effects on other women. What skews a simple comparison of EST/A1 regarding their effects on men/women respectively is, I think, the “same sex” effects of pheromones that seem to be targeted to the “other sex”. I’ll explain, while in another window I look for your recent EST-threads, Diane
Some men wearing A1 most notably get depressed as a side effect, this has become an important caveat for new users looking to get some IFM. Others, like myself, are lucky enough to not be affected in this way. But I have never read a report from a man that states that the wearer felt any positive effect from A1 either.
From reading the abstracts of the studies on A1 and EST, it seems that gay men should get a positive effect from A1. But gay men probably don’t have as many compelling reasons to buy a product called “Instant Female Magic”.
Now, I shall have to do a bit of a search to confirm, but I don’t recall any report of a woman being depressed or causing another woman to be depressed with EST. I’m still searching for the positive self-effects of EST among woman testers. But it is clear that it influences other women around the wearer to support the wearer, as well as men. Of course A1 does no such thing. Quite a few men will keep their distance from the wearer.
Possibly this is down to different reproductive strategies between the sexes. The A1 side-effect would make sense in the context of male competition, the man might seek to make the other guys feel subdued by the use of pheromones, and at the same time charm the female - both objectives acheived economically by the same molecule!
A pregnant woman is not a reproductive competitor to other women in the same way. Also, even without taking actual pregnancy into account, there seems to be other cooperative “group-reproductive” strategies among women like synchronised menstrual cycles. One theory is that the women of the tribe would take a coordinated stance and basically, at a given time of the cycle, tell the men as one “None of you are getting any, so you’d best go out and hunt for a few days.”
Any molecule that was a trade off between one set of effects and the other would serve the wearer well in a great many other social situations. Along our evolutionary history, we might expect an increasing amount of semiochemical diplomacy to take place: the basic sexually-dimorphic messages would be tailored to more diverse ends.
So I don’t think P93-cooperation is the same as EST-cooperation, but that it might be somewhere along a certain spectrum of (non-androstenol) bonding molecules. And with that the spectrum of response elicitation would change too, filtered by our sophisticated neurology and society. That is just one axis of a multi-dimensional taxonomy, of course.
hey check it out, I became a “Pheromone Master” all of a sudden! Must’ve been when I made my 1000th post or something. The Force is with me
Well, I just applied a couple of sprays of Spaceland. Pungent, but the initial pong seems to have died down substantially. I was finding something very hilarious before… what was it? It was something in my kitchen, something not really inherently funny at all… Ah, memory lapses, LOL Must be another Spaceland thing.
These are nice theories, except that evolution is not consciously directed. It is all about survival strategies that work. Women in their third trimester of pregnancy are extremely vulnerable. They are awkward, can’t climb up trees or run to avoid predators, can’t lift and carry, etc. The women who produced more of this pheromone, which elicits help and care-taking, and protective feelings survived to give birth and raise their children, and hopefully pass that trait on. It makes sense in a survival way.
So do the synchronized cycles, and not because the guys have to go out and hunt. Rather, when women cycle together they are more likely to be pregnant and giving birth timed closely together. With the extreme vulnerability of women during and shortly after childbirth it makes sense to have as little extended downtime as possible, and not having women in the group giving birth at too extended a range of time. Also, if all the women are breastfeeding at the same time, they can all look after each other’s children, while a few go out to gather food. Remember, men hunt, women gather. Looking at this as a survival strategy makes more sense.
Androstedienone makes sense in this way also. Men produce aggression signalling pheromones, like androstenone. It makes sense that those men who produced more androstadienone as well, and made themselves more attractive/less threatening to women because of it, would have a mating selection and reproductive advantage over their competitors who did not.
And some pheromones (maybe all of them) are context dependent. I read a study recently that showed that women did not report the same mood enhancing effects to a male pheromone when the tester in the room was female. They only showed effect when exposed to the pheromone when the tester was male. These were double blind studies, so the women did not know that they were being exposed to anything and neither did the testers handling the questionnaires. I don’t remember which pheromone this was, but I believe it was either androstenol or androstedienone.
At any rate, since some pheromones are dependent on environmental conditions and context, those things also need to be taken into consideration as well. And I do see this with Est. My husband responds to Est much differently than you do. But he’s responding to me wearing it. In that context he is not just chilled out. He is very active in taking care of my needs as he perceives them. He is also serene and calm and loving, too. But there isn’t the lack of motivation you seem to experience without a female target wearing the Est.
In the general public when I wear Est out and about, alpha female types respond to me in a bossier kind of way, like I can’t take care of myself, and they know what is best. Beta males respond in the same fashion. Beta females respond much like my husband does, only with more verbal reassurances, and more looking for direction from me. Alpha males respond much like they always do, by taking charge and directing others to take care of me… lol.
Est does not have a crash and burn element to it like androstadienone. The only effect I notice consistently after nearly 4 months of almost daily use is a greatly enhanced sense of smell. And when I’m not wearing it, I see no difference in mood or energy level or feelings of well-being.
Androstadienone, by the way, does cause crash and burn in women after 9 hours, according to the studies I’ve seen, with the women feeling depressed, more down, and dysphoric. I don’t know if this is what the rebound is like for men, but it may just be the nature of this molecule. Androstadienone has been shown to affect different parts of the brain in men and women that is clearly gender dependent. I believe Est is the same. I certainly do not get the euphoria, serenity, and peaceful effects I see in my husband. I do get a bit of that with Meo-Est, but Meo-Est is a sensual molecule for me, not a care-taking one. But if he were wearing it? I dunno. I’ll have to test that.
oh, I don’t mean to suggest that it is consciously directed. I say eg) “the man might seek to make the other guys feel subdued by the use of pheromones” for the purposes of brevity in an already tl;dr post . But all things being equal, the man who manages to have that particular A1-differential effect on men and women does indeed get a survival strategy that works. But for how long, if that’s all he has in his pheromonal bag of tricks?
With increasing societal sophistication (I don’t mean things like agriculture or what have you, but selection pressures that favour brains that do increasingly more complicated “social accounting”, awareness of reciprocity and consequence), phero molecules that achieve more nuanced sexually-dimorphic bonding effects may become more useful. Or IOW, mutant individuals who produced pheros that were more in tune with the prevailing “zeitgeist” would have a reproductive advantage.
The sex-strike menstrual synchrony theory isn’t one of mine. It’s out there somewhere. But I don’t believe that theory, or any one theory, on menstrual synchrony, is the whole of that story. It would just be something that may have conveniently got the men out of the way and perhaps doing something useful for once , en masse, and as that may or may not have contributed further selection pressure.
Yeah, directly spraying on 60mcg of EST is probably substantially different
for a man. I know not to spray this on if I need to do anything important that particular day. I daresay if any compelling need had turned up today, be it someone else’s or one of my own, I would have got my act together to sort it out. Of course, EST cannot just be a simple strategy to get the man to “stick around” in mere physical terms, since the man has to go out sometime, so it’s a little more than that. Back in ye olde “nasty, brutish and short days”, men who spent all their time basking in their mate’s EST-glow, without going out to hunt occasionally, would have been selected out for sure, along with the female and child as well.
er… it’s 8 hours(?) in now. Not a perfect test, cos I just sprayed some Spaceland before, but I do feel… different. I hesitate to call it a “crash” because to me, a “crash” seems to follow a period of hyperactivity, but it’s… I dunno. I feel even more lazy.
maybe I read a thread of yours, or someone else’s, that described a strong self-effect of MEO-EST instead, and got the two mixed up. So, no real strong self-effects for women wearing EST then? I am not actually finding any searching the forum.
The only self-effects for me with Est is the ability to seriously pick up hubby’s pheromone signature on his body and breath, and to smell other stuff I wouldn’t normally be able to smell. I get no psychological effects, no relaxation, no excitation, or any other pleasant or unpleasant effects when wearing Est or afterwards. I’ve worn up to 200.0 mcg Est alone and with TAF and gotten zero self-effects other than the sense of smell thing.
My husband has shown no rebound effects when I stop wearing it. He just goes back to his normal behavior mode.
More likely L-dopa, norepinephrine or GABAA. I haven’t tried Androstadienone yet.
I do get a hellacious rebound from P107 + TAF, and that definitely felt like norepinephrine burn out. It took me 3-4 days to begin to recover from 2 days of testing: day 1: 20.0 mcg P107, 20.0 mcg TAF; day 2: 10.0 mcg P107, 20.0 mcg TAF. I’ve never had rebound from TAF alone at any dosage.
