This one is curiously missing the intended purpose notes. Unless I can find early comments I or Harris made about it, I’ll have to assume it was a happy accident.
Come to think of it, it may have been a Chemical Charisma mix. It doesn’t use the same structure as MX252 at all, though. I guess it doesn’t have to. We try different mixing theories all the time. I just wish it went into the database with more notes.
One better. We get enough to send out… maybe… 30 testers of each. 60 if we go 2.5ml.
So you get the full monty, in the right delivery format. I just gotta go to our other lab to get the samples, or have the fragrance house remake them and send them to LA.
I added these comments to the above:
"Ideally, any “fallout” of any of our mass scale would be beneficial to everyone around – so it has a sort of “world changing halo” type effect. A better world is a type of profit to all. Since you cannot escape the world, wearing a product that has a side effect a better place makes also makes it better for you, your family, etc. It’s a positive cybernetic loop that effects everyone.
If only Coke thought that way before putting out another can of Coke Classic, the world would be a better place with less diabetes and happier people. Their mainstream product should the healthy “Coke +” (the one with vitamins and minerals), the niche product should be full sugar Coke."
Please read and understood these words carefully.
Mike Harris nearly killed himself repeating our mantra over and over, and so did I (but mostly over the phone). Please understand who we are, and what we’re doing. We’re not a typical company that’s out to create sickness and disease for money, don’t care to be, and never will be.
Don’t even think for a second about what a typical company does. We could’ve gone public years ago if we wanted to poison people for money.
Commercial to us means most beneficial to as many people as possible. Win-win-win-win-win-to-infinity situations. If a mix doesn’t create wins for tons of people, it’s not commercial grade to us.
What do you guys think we’ve been working so hard for all these years? We could’ve sold out long ago. Only people with a greater purpose work this hard, and under such trying circumstances.
I think I understand. Most of us were thinking that the release was intended to be a product that will attract the most customers, therefore we immediately thought a more sexual product was necessary (after all, sex sells, and it sells the most).
However, I think that if mx297 (or a version similar to it; I still reccommend the addition of one of the -Nols to it), is the best if your intentions are releasing a product that will still attract a crowd (maybe less than if you released the next axe), but one made up of individuals looking for something else than just to get layed. Those who come back (and I’m sure many will), will buy it because of the many positive qualities that add more than just simply making everyone find you sexually attractive.
Also, I still find that mx297 can be sexual, but maybe this is definitely more related to personality and behavior combined with the pheromones.
For example, Steve finds the mix very girly and he could be completely right, but I’ve been thinking about this and I believe that just as he is very alpha, there are many different types of alphas.
Maybe the type I am seems to work with this formula as in “he’s a tough guy on the outside, but he’s a cutie on the inside” 
, while other alphas can wear it and make girls think in confusion “he looks very masculine, but something about him seems contradictory to this. Maybe he’s not out of the closet yet”.
Remember guys, Think Different
We don’t live long enough to do a crap job, or to harm the world through reckless thinking. Neither does Steve Jobs:
Listen very carefully.
Lots of great and valid points. Obviously we want it to be as attractive as possible.
Just… please don’t think we’re about to drop MX292 or 301 as Ammo. You do that, you make something popular like that, you destroy the world, I guarantee you.
There’s different rules in the mass marketplace, except for companies that truly don’t give a toss. It’s a different scale. What you do in a niche world does not translate to the mass world.
Simulate it in your head. Small amounts of some of those hardcore mixes are OK (even if they’re great for 1 user), large amounts BAD. Bad for everyone, including the user. Flooding the world with something like androstenone would be like launching our very own war on the planet. That’s irresponsible to the core, perhaps worse than Coca-Cola promoting Type II Diabetes in their dancin’, singin’ commercials.
If you don’t think MX297 would provide a good “Friends” TV Show type effect (the guy everyone likes that also doesn’t have many problems with the girls either), please recommend other MXs or this MX with mods that fit the criteria I’ve talked about above.
We’ve always liked P74 for the Ammo type effect. It’s just a bit too exhausting in large quantities.
Keep in mind, btw, that Axe is a true mass market product and delivers nothing. Conversely, Pherlure is a niche product that probably has the highest “pheromone sales”. It’s from a company that uses a fake University of Chicago study and other tools of con men to fool the gullible (and perhaps create a placebo effect).
Axe uses innuendo and the mass market, while Pherlure uses blackhat fraud, and both have equal results at the end of the day. They’re zero sum games, except for the people making the money.
Compared to those market leading products, how does MX297 compare?
Compared to these and other top mass market favorites, which MX would be even more appropriate if you wanted to add something to user’s life and the world around them?
The mass market has nothing to do with absolute accuracy, it has more to do with responsibility and, to us, a proper halo effect. Everything pollutes, and we want to pollute with good feelings. Nols, p74, TAA, etc.
Planning positive fallout. Sneaky but wise.
But once this “Globe-mix” comes out, won’t there be a massive amount of people trying to get their hands on other amazing things androtics has to offer?
MX297 kills them all. I can’t even imagine mx297 in a spray can like that because people (especially teenage males) like to break the lids off and throw them perpetually spraying and spinning down hallways. Phero “bombs” would be everywhere. Now that I think about it though, having somehting like IS mixed with spaceland stuffed into a “Phero bomb” and letting it go at a party would be pretty crazy.
So yeah, compared to other mass marketed “favorites” mx297 would be my first choice to compete with them AND it would destroy them all.
How would they know who we are? A truly commercial project will probably be sold through a licensee, not us. We’re not setup for that at all. Even a soft launch on Google and with an affiliate program will probably require some outside help. Again, since we’re simply not setup for that. We can only handle very low volume.
Remember, this is an R&D project that embraces and involves high bandwidth individuals. If you’re highly active here, you’re really not part of the mass market. You are the leading edge.
Even if they found out, the mass market really isn’t welcome here, and never would be. We already scare away about 99% of people who click over from Google as with our participation rules (give quality feedback or go somewhere else). The mass market doesn’t care for that. For many, that’s even insulting to them.
Remember that few people even use forums. They seem like a big thing to you, because you use them, but most people don’t. Companies that make forum software are even struggling to stay in business, as forums are starting to die off.
The mass market, if there is any online comparison, would be more the world of Facebook/twitter/etc. Many people on there wouldn’t even bother with the complexity of our registration form.
We also don’t have enough material to supply them. Heck, we ran out of the grade of androstenol we depend on a few months ago and almost went out of business. There’s not many people who make academic grade molecules. I just learned that one of our chemist’s turned 80. There’s very real, hard limits to how hard we can push production.
As open as we may appear to be, there’s tons of barriers to being involved here.
Imagine how many people a project like Pherlure sells to without anybody so much as mentioning it here. We have an idea of how many, since we supplied a project that sold massive amounts of products with a similar type of ad early on. An Axe type product. (not talking about PheroProof, different entirely)
Difference is, they used real stuff for their Axe type effect, until they figured out they could drop that cost. We amazed at how much a well trained marketer could sell. For the “mass type” markets, they get such bad product even placebo sometimes suffices (which is why Axe sells millions of bottles a month)
I just had to laugh about the dildo pheromone company 
I completely understand your intention and MX297 perfectly fits it. The longer i use pheromones the more i am myself much more interested in social benefiting products like MX297 or A314 than in strongly sexual “one night stand” mixes (at least most times i use them 
).
I also agree that a commercial product should in no way be offensive or agressive sexual…
But i think most new unexperienced users get interested in pheromones in the first place because they hope for some immediate signs of attraction from the ladies (or they have even more unrealistic expectations)…
MX297 delivers proof that pheromones work im many areas of life, but you have to look for it and be aware of the benefits… and i think - maybe i am wrong - that most average joes are first and foremost looking for DIRECT reactions from the ladys. I think there are those who also notice the other benefits of MX297 and those who measure the effectiveness of the product primarily by the effects on women…
And yes it has positive effects on women - but often it takes TIME (exposure time as well as time to capitalize on popularity/social proof)
I am not saying make it more sexual, my point just is that it would benefit the product if you could add something to produce more initial attention from stangers (like eye contact / head turns etc) - i think thats what would be the one thing to improve to make MX297 perfect for most newbies…
I think that MX297 would make an awesome front line product, and a PERFECT initiation product. Attractive and fun but still very work safe and family friendly. Now I do have one teeeensy suggestion if I may.
Since this is a product you want repeat business on, and possibly even a “gateway” product, how about a special offer for first time buyers that includes a small paper back “beginners guide to pheromones” with tips on congruence and how to identify hits.
Thus reducing the odds of somebody missing effects because they don’t know what to look for and writing the product off.
297 would be awesome to use as a commercial launch.
I’ve had a lot of fun with it this summer.
In a way it’s definitely a bit more mainstream- rather- it’s probably a more socially acceptable sell to the mass public than a lot of the other mixes. Fun sexy vibe with respect.
The first time I used 297 I was impressed.
See now there you go. You’re thinking the right way.
You have to ask yourself “What would happen if this MX actually became Axe?”
While I don’t think we could ever do that, that doesn’t mean it’s not a good exercise in both commercial viability AND in ethics.
Yeah, visualize it being let off in hallways of colleges, in offices, at parties. Really simulate what happens, the good and bad. It’s a killer thought experiment, and essential to any company that wants to be a responsible member of the world. Enough companies harm the world through negligence or carelessness. The world doesn’t need another one!
All the companies we like the most do their best to be responsible. To add to the direct buyer’s life, and to those they effect. Branson (Virgin), Jobs (Apple), Trader Joes, Tony Tshieh (Zappos). These are “our peeps”. Even though I’ve only hung out directly with 2 of 'em, they’re still our peeps in spirit. (and I don’t even think there IS a Trader Joe!)
The type of responsibility I’m talking about does NOT mean “NOT FUN”. All 4 of those companies above are more fun than almost anything else on planet Earth. True responsibility makes people happier and healthier, and who can ultimately have more fun than someone happy, healthy and high functioning? Right??
So MX297 and IS+Spaceland are your choices for a truly commercial grade Ammo 2.0? Happy, fun, healthy, cool?
Guys, read this description of Zappos on suggestionbox.com so you can understand we’re not the only “nuts” that feel they way we do:
“Zappos is a collection of people who want to change the world! We think such a simple thing as helping someone find a fabulous pair of shoes can change one’s life! Our spirit is one of service. We can only hope to pass along some of those good vibrations to others. Industry terms might call us an “online retailer” however, each individual that works for Zappos.com considers our work infinitely more meaningful than that. Our mission: To Deliver Wow Through Service, is the foundation for all we do here.”
Yeah, they sell more than a billion dollars of shoes online every year. They make some serious money these days, but from everything from phone service, to delivery, to working there, it’s a NEW way of doing business. This isn’t just talk, this is a real thing. You can visit and see for yourself. A better form of business is descending on the earth, and making the whole planet a better and more ENJOYABLE place to live.
Visit a Trader Joe’s sometimes and understand there’s something different going on. Look up “Richard Branson” on youtube, too, so you can see what I mean. There’s a new renaissance of kind, elevated business. Changing the world for the better (and “funner”!) through business.
I’m going to be the odd man out here.
This is the ICM mixes. Seriously, take out the -none and replace it with P83 or P75 and you would have a real winner, without worrying about the negatives of -none. I think that the ICM mixes are really what you are looking for, and it is definitely doable without the -none or at a much lower dosage. Its P74, P93, beta-nol, TAA and TAC without the -none. All happy feel good friendly molecules that really work in synergy with each other. Hell just take out the
-none and don’t replace it and I think you would have a great mix still.
297 is a good mix, but I have never gotten hits like anything from 301. 297 is more respect and star vibe, where 301 is more I want to get to know you and have fun type vibe. I have had people stunned with me while wearing 297. Subway lady got confused making my sandwhich, gas station attendant couldn’t figure out my change. Girls seemed to be slightly intimidated I don’t think thats what we really want from a mix thats going to be mass marketed.
Now that I have tested P74 a few times by itself, I think its the driving force in the MX301 that makes it work, and I don’t seem to feel P74 in MX297 like I do 301. Actually, I think p74+P93 together is the real winner, but I haven’t tested those together by themselves yet. Maybe I will tomorrow now that its in my head.
Only problem I can think of is its a costly mix, but I bet 297 is too.
If they come out with a mass release, I wonder if they’ll use research grade chemicals?
Why isn’t AMMO 1.0 wearable? I get pretty much similar hits as MX297 PLUS sexual desire from girls, lol.
P.S. ALMOST any mone gets you noticed in SOME WAYS (except probably a-nol; at least for me)… Good or Bad? Depends on what you are looking for.
Great feedback, thanks! “I want to know you” vibe is perfect, you’re right.
A few things.
P93 isn’t usable in a commercial project. How much do you feel this creates the social vibe?
TAA we’re looking into. I think we can green light it.
I think we can green light p74, too.
TAC may be usable, but we’re not looking for personal dissociation or personal disconnection. I know it has positive self-effects on the wearer and great bufferig aspects, but we’re looking to connect people more with each other with larger projects.
So doesn’t this, in a way, reduce this mix for certain social purposes? Isn’t this here mostly to reduce the negatives of the -none? Without the -none, is it really necessary?
Also, if a whole town had TAC dumped onto it, would be the mass effect you figure?
Mike never liked bnol for “sexy mixes” unless it had lots of -none and other parameters, but I don’t find it unsexy. Maybe he meant “sexual” not sexy, or sexual under certain circumstances. Or maybe as a woman I just see IOIs better. 
Anyway, most beta molecules aren’t usable for something like this due to difficulty of synthesis, low yield and thus cost.
That’s the rub with using something like bnol. While we introduced to market, what 7 years ago, it was the cloners that made a cheap version.
Due to problems with our chemists operation (even if we gave them the $ it’s unlikely they could make a high enough quantity any time soon), we may have to do something very weird like buy a batch from a cloner in order to be able to afford to use it in our own product. Now that’s weird!
Almost nothing in common use is in MX297, making it a perfect mix to augment with suggestions here!
Because androstenone over a certain level is poison.
Anything above minute amounts of androstenone is best left for a low production niche. It doesn’t scale well. If a version of Ammo took off that was high -none, we’d all be doomed in a sense.
Or think if Ammo 1.0 was instead the next version of Axe. Not only would you lose your edge, but you’d run into lots more grumpy people with a short fuse.
Maybe… Think of the whole world as dose dependent. A little bit might help, a lot might kill. Imagine dumping a molecule onto an entire town. That helps you to figure out what negative side effects can be, and if inclusion of that molecule is a good idea or not.
A lot of things are dose dependent. A little bit of water every day keeps you alive. 8 to 12 cups you’re really healthy. A couple gallons a day, you die. Painfully.
You’re exactly right. In a way, almost any molecule will do… but we have so many, and have so much feedback, we may put a bit of work into it pick the right ones.