Mx297 good enough to be Ammo 2.0?

Field Reports & Anecdotal Experience Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports
41

Those are some good counterpoints and things I didn’t think of. I could tell there was no P74 in MX297 right away after my first few tests of it solo. I do think that P74 is something that should definitely be in a commercial mix. Self effects are positive and uplifting, and seems to be a molecule that makes people want to know you.

For the Beta-nol, MX302 used Alpha and had almost the same results. So it might very well be possible to replace if you guys don’t feel its what your looking for.

When thinking of alpha vs beta it comes down to how the user is going to use the product. If someone comes to it looking to enhance their relationships with people they already know, then beta is the way to go. If there are looking for new relationships, alpha is probably the better choice. I will agree that Alpha is more attractive when your first getting to know someone than beta. However, that instant connection could spark something attractive for some people, or freak out others.

TAC, I have no experience with it by itself, so I guess I can’t help there.

P93 I have limited experience, but because I know the effects of TAA and -none (the only other two in the mix), its definitely adding something special in the mix I feel, but it can probably be worked around if its not possible.

My personal opinion, A good mix would have P74, TAA, and one of the nols as a base. It might need something to give it a bit of more edgy for attraction purposes. Maybe P83 or P75, but I haven’t tested them with P74 just yet.

Hope this helps lol, kinda just a mess of thoughts. I could really just be the oddman out with my opinion lol.

42

I realized a long time ago “research grade” meant nothing since companies sell the lowest end chemicals were using that term. It’s a shame, since the words themselves provide a great description. They could’ve described what we need had they not been co-opted and subsequently corrupted.

“Academic grade” is the non-tainted descriptor I’v been using recently, that’s a big no. Can’t do use anything made in 1 to 2 gram parcels (unless we use traces), but we can have some molecules made in larger quantities with decent quality. Still vastly higher than what you find elsewhere.

The only popular molecules of major concerns are the betas, and some really oddball molecules. TAH, TAL, P90. Those are some of the great molecules we’re having trouble with.

For some reason, we still can’t get enough great quality anol, either. It comes in in drips, which threatens this project. I know the issues with the other molecules, but still have to get to the bottom of what that’s about. Anol has been in use for at least 30 years. It seems almost commodity like to me, so that’s a weird one to have trouble with.

43

Hahaha, that’s soooo funny. With the same design restrictions, your suggestions are starting to look a lot like what Mike wanted a long ways back. Either you’re pullin’ my leg and read his old posts, or that’s too funny!

The concern he had was some of the status diminution effects of some of those molecules. He didn’t want people to put on something, and be belitted, pushed around or looked over. He always looked at mass mixes through with “father to the world” type glasses on, realizing that small errors on a mass scale can create a lot of unintended pain.

As a “hack” to get around that, he thinking of using tiny amounts of A314, even traces, since even a small amount can help take away some of the disrespect you can sometimes get from molecules like TAA. Not enough to get an A314 effect, just enough to sort of “buffer out” the status lowering effects of the socials, much like lots of users use some molecules to buffer the negatives of -none.

Large amounts of P74 he found to be just about perfect for a “mass vibe” he wouldn’t mind “unleashing on the world”. That world, however, would be very tired after a few hours!

We wanted to make sure you could use this almost anywhere, and still remain high functioning. Smaller amounts may be best, augmented with other less tiring stuff to fill in.

MX297 seems to be uplifting in a different (and compatible?) way, minus a lot of tiredness P74 can seem to bring.

For the design parameters, I’m thinking small amounts of a few social, friendly, good times molecules = better than large amounts of one. In another thread on here, I was talking about Ammo perhaps being no more than 5mcg p74 per spray, then augmented by a bunch of other tiny doses of fun molecules. TAA, 83, etc.

44

My bit of observations:

  1. Even someone socially inept /wallflower, can get some results from MX297. the results are not too subtle. however it does not have a sexual pull. so its work safe but may disappoint those looking for axe effect.

  2. It makes you popular with both men and women. totally male and female boss safe. can even get you out of trouble with bosses sometimes :smiley:

  3. Combine it with IH, you can get to be the best buddie of that hottie in less than a week flat.

  4. What I found lacking in it is the sexual attraction. Attraction/ disinhibition is there but not a sexual pull. Now I understand that for it being worksafe, you may not want to do anything about it, but still I found that some shots of Heavy AMMO didnt hurt. So may be a dash of something a bit sexual would be needed in it to make it more rounded.
    Despite using heavy AMMO with it, I am having trouble in escalating the KINO I get from 297.

If that can be fixed, this would be the most amazing product and would be an absolute commercial hit.

This is coming from the idiot who has horded 5 bottles of 297 fearing it may not be available

45

Great!

Keep in mind, Axe doesn’t give the Axe effect, either. If we can use similar tongue in cheek advertising and give them SOMETHING, that’s probably better than the big 0 they get now.

I don’t know think we have the tech to give the Axe effect without some heavy lifting. Because of the way nature works, I don’t know if anybody really will. There has to be a high biological COST associated to intense mating signals and activities. Think the peacock. Think evolutionary psychology.

There’s Project UF for that, and the mixes of that that I think will work best use very expensive and rare molecules. It cannot come without a caution that wasn’t serious (with Axe type products you can make one up to be silly)

There’d also be fallout from heavy use of the types of mixes Project UF has.

That’s why it has to be the opposite of how Coke does it. The hardcore stuff is niche (Full sugar Coke Classic, Project UF), the healthier stuff mass (Coke Plus with vitamins and minerals, Mx297, nols, etc).

A responsible party puts out something good enough for the mass level. Think 37signals.com and Basecamp. The niche guys benefit by having access to more intense tools, and the dedication to use them properly.

Perfect!

Also great!

Tiny, tiny amounts of -none could be used, just nothing substantial. We can safely bring it back to human levels to counter our tendency to overwash.

If you’re not even able to escalate touch with Heavy Ammo, maybe you’re using too much MX297?

Maybe we should use less 297 and more 74, p83, etc?

This is some GREAT feedback, thank you… but shhh… careful what you say around people you took it from!

46

A strange question but… Jas, ,according to feedback, which guy in “Friends” does this mix come most close to? Ross? lol

47

If he’s the one you’re most attracted to, then yes. lol

That whole dynamic displayed on the show is one most of the country was attracted to. That interpersonal dynamic is something people want in their lives on a very deep level, even if they might not know it consciously. Some other shows have similar interplay going on. Even Big Bang Theory and Eureka. These are the types of shows people watch, because they want their lives to be like them.

We can help create dynamics like that in real life. I’ve seen situations like those induced many times with our tech. We just gotta find the right balance and put a goofy name on it (since that’s what people trust nowadays).

48

OK so maybe I’m suffering from mone induced neurotransmitter depletion but is it actually going to be called Ammo 2.0? Cause I seriously like the name “Spotlight” better for 297…it feels like a real likable celebrity vibe.

49

I thought I should mention this. I just asked this cute girl some questions such as the following:

-Who do you most prefer/admire?

  1. Johnny Depp
  2. Brad Pitt
  3. George Clooney
  4. A dude from “Friends” (ie Ross, Joey, etc)

-You are stuck in your room in a hot summer day. Which of the guys above would you like to go with?

Both times, she said a dude from “Friends.” She said because she watched the show and she liked them as cool characters. Also, she said she doesn’t care much about big name celebs. I am mentioning this, since being projected like a dude from “Friends” isn’t necessarily terrible, lol

50

Good name for the mix!

Yes, the intention of “Ammo” was to always be a real product name that would see the light of day outside this forum. Version 1.x gives it a “placeholder” mix, and if people still want it here, that’s fine. If we lose control of the name, we can even just turn it into an MX. No big deal.

We never thought the original mix for v1.x of Ammo was all that brilliant or refined. We’re talking about our work on it. We know it works just fine, but it’s not exactly something we’d be proud of and say “here, look at this engineering marvel!”

Ammo won’t necessarily be 100% MX297. Just trying to gather feedback fast, so I can do what needs to be done. Out of much of the mix feedback I’ve seen over the years, it seems MX297 accidentally hit most of the intended design parameters for what we wanted Ammo to become.

It’s a timing issue. It presents what is perhaps a good opportunity to save this project without doubling or tripling the prices on everything here. I also know many people have wanted to promote one of our products with an affiliate link. Something impossible for Androtics Direct, as what we do here is completely dependent on having no middle men besides our Google ad.

If we take this learning opportunity and the second of of Ammo becomes MX297 based, it’ll likely be modified. It’s not we can ever leave good enough alone. We tweak each successive revision, until we get something dialed in and refined.

As for specific designs… an earlier idea for the the next version of Ammo was to center it around P74,. Maybe it’ll be a hybrid of that, what we’ve learned from MX297, and small amounts of a few other molecules. If we can afford it (depends on how much stock we can get for what price, in a small timeframe), maybe something like MX297 + tiny amounts of CTTM, P74, TAA. Maybe add some P83 or P75, or traces of -none.

There’s a few different ways to go about it. If people feel MX297 can be built upon and/or modified to create the feel good, “Friends” type effect we’ve been looking for the next version of Ammo, then I’ll take ideas presented here and make a 5 mix pack.

If people here feel MX297 makes no sense for it, and can’t be “repaired” with modifications, then we’ll consider other MXs.

Of course, it’s possible the timing isn’t there at all. But we are actively seeking a greener pasture or two fast so we can save our chemist’s operation. This is an option. There’s some other options as to what we can develop sales for. There’s also investors, as a means of last resort. We might be able to eek by without him for some things (we can have non-novel molecules made elsewhere without too much fuss), but he he helped us early on and we’d like to stick by him.

While it is kind and ethical to do so, there’s great benefits for doing so. It’s unlikely we could not continue to operate Androtics in any way you’ve seen so far without the aid of him. He knows every significant steroid/hormone/pheromone chemist in the US and Europe. There’s not that many of them (some were around for the introduction of “the pill!”) so it’s not like there’s really anybody else that he doesn’t work with, anyway.

There’s less and less of a demand for this type of chemistry (except in our world), so there’s really nowhere to go should we want to continue innovating. You innovate with typical, dirty chemicals, and that’s an innovation you can’t keep. Some are okay for finalized commercial product, but they’re too batch dependent for a reliable development cycle.

51

Those are my honest opinions, no checking mike’s posts lol. Yea P74 definitely has a tiring effect, I ordered it at 15mcgs a spray, and now it seems that it might have been too high lol. 5mcgs is what is in MX301, so that seems like a perfect dose. And I agree that it definitely cannot be too social or pushovery, which is why I suggested the P83 or P75.

I agree with Aghor that MX297 kinda doesn’t make it easy to escalate.

Thats hilarious that I had the same thoughts as him haha. I’m gonna give MX297 a shot tomorrow with a single spray of P74, lets see what happens. That or add some -none to it. However I feel in the morning I guess.

52

MX297 is the perfect product to become the guy from Friends. The guy everybody loves to be around, is easy going, and funny.

The problem I see here is that Axe is successful because they market sex. Every high school guy who buys it wants the effect they see in the commercials. I honestly think with a touch more “masculine sexiness” in this product it could be the best thing since sliced bread.

Edit: That was a great post about the girl saying she would love to hang out with the guy from Friends over George Clooney, Brad Pitt, etc. That’s completely true - the only thing is that if you asked any guy that same question they would have different answers, and they would be the target market for the product.

53

I would like to see ammo 2.0 with some P96 in it. I know it will be more expensive but, what is the point of wearing mones if the person you want is not attracted to you.

I have read in DJ’s journal that P96 has a possible “reset effect” on people. Here is what I read “Even people who are not normally inclined to be attracted to you or have no connection seem to be “reset” and see you in a new light. This “Instant Chemistry” effect could definitely help open people and generate attraction and intimacy that can easily be built on.”

I honestly think this is what most people are looking for is Instant Chemistry. I feel that most guys are not looking for some random girl to bang in the club bathroom when they wear mones, they are looking for a true connection with a person… maybe that’s just me?

54

I’m a pretty big fan of MX297. And, to be completely honest, I was pleased with it precisely because it did what I thought AMMO should have.

I’m relatively new to pheromones and, like many, AMMO was my first purchase. But (and I couldn’t really tell you why) I had a tough time getting a handle on AMMO. Sure it’s well buffered and easy to use; I think from the dosage standpoint it was a fun place to start because there was lots of room to safely experiment. I know I certainly did. But the new scent seems a little strong to me at work with 2 or 3+ sprays and even when I think I’m in my sweet spot I don’t see the same results as with MX297.

From my admittedly inexperienced perspective, AMMO is sexual and aggressive, but in a controlled way. The more I use it the more I’m beginning to understand it, and there are just times in my conservative work environment that being congruent with that is inappropriate, or it simply causes women to back off because it’s too blatant. AMMO has it’s place, for sure. But in my situation that’s after work and usually with some other 'mones.

MX297 seems much more work friendly. The attraction and the respect are there, and in a way that’s less threatening. I feel MX297 produces hits 1) more often and 2) more obviously. As I primarily test this at is work I haven’t escalated any of these so I can’t speak to anything past that initial attraction. But boy, that’s there in spades. On the days that I wear it women literally find excuses to hang around and hover. Also, as the mix currently stands, the scent isn’t overpowering (like the full cologne strength of AMMO) and I can wear it solo; That’s both easy and convenient.

I know sex sells. But so do results -and MX297 delivers. Like a lot of things, your mileage is going to vary… a **LOT **depends on how you game your mix. But where I started off interested in the strong sexual combos, I’ve gravitated more toward the socials because I think they have a wider range of practical application and work a lot more congruently with the laid back, easy-going style I maintain.

TLDR: MX297 already is my AMMO 2.0

55

I dunno about you guys, but AMMO’s worked well for me. And remember this is before I started becoming active on this forum

56

AMMO (game) = DIHL , when I first wore it

it was freaky when that happened. My friend’s wife was giving me DIHL’s (almost in trance) while her cleavage was hanging out :open_mouth:
At that moment, I learned that mones have some potential :wink: Of course, nothing happened, because I don’t get involved with any girl in a serious relationship. All the products here do different things, and they are great. It just depends on WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR :slight_smile:

57

I’m all for it.

58

You guys thought the design metaphor was terrible? Maybe that’s the problem!

My dear did you think we were completely stupid? The people who made A314 and IH are just mindless whackjobs, are they? :stuck_out_tongue:

No, it’s not terrible at all.

Yeah, never mind people’s words. Look at behaviors. It’s nice that your friend was so honest, but generally words lie and behaviors tell all.

The reality is that guys like the the dudes from Friends (I know several) score big time socially with men and sexually with women. Having spent much time in LA I know for a fact that many of the brand name actors buy sex. I think I’ve mostly seen musicians and, oddly, David Spade (he’s everywhere!) out on many real dates. Despite their stage personas, the musicians who succeed socially tend to act just like the cool, joke poppin’ “Friends dudes” in person. Easy going. Easy to talk to. Easy to “love”, heh.

Women may dream of and talk about one type of guy, but they always go for another. It doesn’t matter WHO they talk about, look at who they go for. The Friends type guy is one type they definitely go for.

Some women even feel outclassed by a Friends type guy and don’t feel “good enough”, so trust me, you’re still up there in status land.

Based on reality, not words, it’s a perfect goal for us. Maybe not as the marketing concept or even as something talk about here, apparently (hahaha!), but as a functional design goal.

In the mass market, they market cars are freedom and nature loving devices, whereas they’re just efficient, sometimes comfy was to get to and back from work and the market. The design goals are different than the fantasy advertising, but at least they do something useful after all.

While we don’t do that kind of marketing think here (it destroys R&D), the marketers will likely sell Ammo in a similar way as Axe, and instead of delivering nothing, like a car it’ll deliver something useful and maybe life changing.

59

Nope. While Mx297 is one of my current favorites to experiment with, it seems to affect some in ways that aren’t terribly work safe/compatible.

Work safe depends a lot on what exactly the work is, of course. There’s a big difference in what’s “work safe” between working in a Starbucks, office, flying aircraft, or doing microsurgery on kids. I have friends doing each.

60

You’re very right.

I wouldn’t use any mones, or recommend any, for someone flying or performing surgery.

Maybe I’d personally use a small amount of a parental competence one like A314, but that’s my own choice. Only after lots of long term mone experience would I make that choice. I wouldn’t necessariy recommend that to others, ever. They’d have to use their own judgement.

Mostly life threatening jobs and mones don’t and shouldn’t mix.

“Office safe” is perhaps a better way to state the specific goal. Most office work isn’t life threatening, per se (and if it it’s error corrected by someone else), but those environments are also more conservative than some entertainment and retail based jobs.

I’d also say there’s a scope to how “office safe” it needs to be. In a case like Ammo, it’s not even designed or named for the office. Office is more of a design consideration. It shouldn’t cause any unduly disruptions on it’s own should someone choose to experiment with it at work. If the user gets in hot water, it should mostly be due to their own behaviors, not because of the spray alone. “Office Safe Enough” Not made for the office, but not necessarily a killer blow to your work life, either.

Heavy -none products some people wear to work, and it makes me cringe every time. I would never recommend that, and it does them no good at all. Unless it’s a very unique office, or they’re old enough to be using -none as a “supplement” of sorts, there’s no good that can come out of that. Ever. I don’t understand why people even try.

Actually, I may know why. There’s heavy -none products out that that recommend you wear them to work. I think Primal had that in their ad. How ridiculous can that be? Obviously the copywriter never actually used the product. It’s a dumb thing to recommend.

In a case like A314, scope is different. Obviously it’s a match for an environment like that. It often elevates both perceived and real competency at work. The only fallout tends to be the normal fallout of any corporate climber. When we make new versions, we try it more than merely safe for work – we try to make it more perfect for that environment. It shines both there and at home. We try to optimize to those specific environments when we tweak it.

Ammo might be sold for a more specific use, but we know most people will use it multi-environment despite that. We just need to design around that, so using it in an imperfect environment isn’t fatal. On the other hand, if you use enough Primal Instinct even once at your office, you may be fired or demoted.