ntk23's journal

Field Reports & Anecdotal Experience Men's Journals
21

copy/pasted from the men’s forum: My heaviest combo yet - and a P79 report**

Heavy combo:** Yesterday I went to a party, a daytime, outdoors (with marquee) affair, and went a bit OTT with the pheros, for a noob like myself anyway, but not only did I get away with it, I rocked

http://www.pheromonetalk.com/../images/smilies/biggrin.gif

I applied 4 drops of A314, 4x Turn Up The Heat, 3x Instant Openness, 40mcg beta-androstenol and er… about 6 sprays of Instant Shine… later on I repeated the trick of spraying 6x Instant Female Magic from a to-go on myself, cos I got such good DIHLs from women last time. I delivered my DHVs to the right people, was awesome and quit while I was ahead and left fairly early leaving a nice scent trail behind

http://www.pheromonetalk.com/../images/smilies/smile.gif

I was networking for business and pleasure simultaneously, haha. Let’s hope that grapevine effect kicks in soon. My most radical phero-signature yet, and it’s looking quite good actually. I was, er… on pheromone-autopilot again, so I can’t remember many details apart from I was very good

http://www.pheromonetalk.com/../images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Wow, it was like they were old friends or something, who had my back: the friendly alpha-spirit of the A314, the motivational twinge in the loins caused by Turn Up The Heat, etc. It was the betanol component that was putting me on the mystical trip, and I felt like I had these… guardian phero-angels, LOL. I’m not a New Agey sort of person normally, at all, but I was ready to believe in fairies yesterday

http://www.pheromonetalk.com/../images/smilies/smile.gif

I absolutely love beta-androstenol, it makes powerful associations in my mind, to lots of different good states I have experienced in the past, going back to childhood right through to the present day.

So today, I sprayed on, not a lot judging from other people’s posts, but 7.5 mcg of P79 (3x 2.5mcg spray) today and set about my Sunday just chilling, having a walk about essentially. And I still probably have traces of yesterday’s pheros on me still

http://www.pheromonetalk.com/../images/smilies/smile.gif

** P79 observations:** Focus. Yes. With regards to the Meyers-Briggs typing thread, it actually made me feel extra INTP, so I wasn’t very aware of the world… or maybe one thing at a time. I was simply content to walk about, do some introspection, and also do some people-watching today.

Also, it has been, for a change, a lovely summer day in the UK. Lots of attractive women around. But I felt much pickier than usual as I was eyeing them up. And I’m not talking about choosing the ones with the nicest physical assets necessarily, not at all. I am giving a mental “pass” to the girls who carry themselves well, who look classy and like they have a good deal of self esteem, and rejecting about 99% of them. I am in fact very much more discriminating than usual.

22

copy/pasted from the men’s forum: A modest “work combo” proves to be formidable - P79 effect?

So I was out on a job today, at a place where there are lots of nice women, in fact I had 10 minutes of DHVing with one of them the other day, outside of work, (details in this thread: P74 and Instant Shine report)

I thought I could wear 1 drop of A314, 1 Instant Shine, 10mcg P74, and I even added a spray of Turn Up The Heat because I’m of the age where I can get away with that during the daytime. And I sprayed on 5mcg of P79. A modest combo, I think, that I can get away with in the workplace and just spread some vibes while I’m at it

http://www.pheromonetalk.com/../images/smilies/smile.gif

Anyway, the female attention I got was incredible. One woman was really giving me serious IOIs. Asking me a lot about what I do (which is, er, boring old IT, haha) and… well giving me looks. Like serious ones, LOL.

The girl who features in my other thread, I had the fortune to see her again; she was giving me these lovely wide eyes, her body language was open and she looked well pleased to see me… should I need to, I know how to “accidentally” bump into her outside the work environment again, LOL.

http://www.pheromonetalk.com/../images/smilies/biggrin.gif

She is very pretty, but shy I think.

I joined some other ladies on their break and I was having eye contact that lasted for just that little bit longer than is normally socially-sanctioned, from two of them. With my peripheral vision I was noticing that they were staring at me when they thought I wasn’t looking.

I didn’t even add that much P79 to the combo really, at 5mcg. But I’m sure it has indeed had an amplifying effect.

So with all that good stuff, why did I get a bit depressed later on? Well, later on, I bumped into a friend (male) who was a bit down himself, seemed I could do little to help even with the pheros. Did I catch a little of the blues off him (P74 is said to have an “empathic” effect), and did the P79 amplify it, I wonder? I will have to be careful with P74 and P79 combos if that is the case.

OK, but I’ve shook off those blues now, just thinking about how today went. Remarkable.

http://www.pheromonetalk.com/../images/smilies/smile.gif

23

OK, a funny thing has happened. Like a lot of single guys, a huge motivation for joining this community and grabbing myself some phero products was of course to get women. But something has happened to me. I still want to get women, of course, but that highly selective feeling that happened to me two days ago trying out 7.5mcg of P79 has not gone away yet. Even on my day off any phero usage. I don’t know if it will go away or not.

I basically have been thinking: instead of “I want to have sex with her now”, “I want to get to know her better to see if she is right for me”… is this a result of a prolonged A314 adventure? I am looking for, well, my idea of a high-status woman, which does not necessarily mean someone with a high-powered career, PhD and all that, but someone who has a certain way of behaving, I can’t quite describe it. Someone who is a warm person who spreads love and caring vibes around, from a position of strength.

But anyway, I’ve got the strong frame for screening women to see if I want to be with them or not. Looks will only get you the interview, ladies, LOL. Well, I’m glad I have the betanol now, it should help me foster deep conversations and find out the important things I feel I need to know about the women I’ll be screening.

Of course, I may get -noned up and change my mind, and enjoy some sort of fun and meaningless shenanigans with a lady. I don’t know.

24

Hi ntk :slight_smile: Just thought I’d pop in and have a look around your journal. :smiley:

I’m lovin’ it! Excellent reporting! Reps!

Glad you’re diggin’ the Honesty. It’s by far one of my favorite products and I’ve reported on it often. I wish I had a little more time right now, 'cause I’d really like to chat with you about some of your findings.

I’ll pop in again if you don’t mind having a nosy/curious little lady around. :stuck_out_tongue:

Bella

Hey, I’d love it if you’d stop into the Ballroom if you have a chance. We have a lot of fun in there and occasionally I even put in a report! :smiley:

25

Thanks ever so much Bella; it’s great to get feedback. Yes, I feel very much “in the zone” at the minute, that feeling which I can try to describe in writing but always resists an easy description. I’ll certainly pop into the Ballroom, it is always good to hear of your adventures!

While I’m here, I should relate a hit that happened today, LOL it was pretty cool. So I had, er, maybe one and a half drops A314 on (a “big drop” came out) 10mcg betanol, a spray of Turn Up The Heat and 10mcg of P74. So at my usual coffee shop I noticed the interesting design on this coffee pot and asked one of the girls who worked there if she knew where it came from.
Four of the girls jumped forward and were clamouring to give me the answer! Awesome :slight_smile: So strange. When I say girls, I doubt that any of them have reached 20 years old yet. Far too young for me, but what a nice ego boost for a guy approaching 40 :smiley:

And then there’s the smiles from women as I’m out and about, I’ve always been one to say “hi” and usually it is reciprocated, several times today the smiles and eye contact are just that little bit more warm it seems. I’m glad of my interest in body language, dating back a few years, as I’ve been a keen people-watcher for some time, and it gives me a baseline to compare my new experiences to.

Guess it’s been a nice hot day as well in the UK - good for diffusion.

26

Funny, I’ve been thinking along similar lines and I thought maybe it might have to do with the Glauberman CD I’ve been listening to for a while.

I might have asked A out, but I don’t want to be her bf atm. As you said looks only get you an interview. :slight_smile: The best way I can put it is, this alpha (me) deserves an alpha woman to match, and knowing that the qualities of an alpha woman, like an alpha male, depends more on their character and actions than their physical attractiveness. In that sense, you might even say that it is a more female style of mate selection. My alpha woman is hot, sexy, fun, warm, and can lay it down if she needs to. But she doesn’t have to because she already has their loyalty. It doesn’t have to do, as you said with any status symbols or financial wealth. She could be found organizing a fundraiser for children or some other organization.

Maybe this is thinking too far down the line, but would she raise my kids well? Obviously there is no way to tell absolutely, but there are definitely some girls I wouldn’t even consider baby mama material. Definitely from her own upbringing, you can see how she might raise her own children. I couldn’t have kids with a woman that thinks their kid is a dog and puts that body harness on them. (Watch your damn kids people!)

Anyways, just popping in to say hey and wanted to comment.

27

Thanks Phya. Yeah it’s a pretty good feeling LOL, I mean, they tell you to actually fake that kind of selectivity on many PUA boards - the advice is to put yourself in the frame of being the choosy one who is screening women to see if they measure up - I think David DeAngelo talks about it or someone like that. But to actually feel it experientially is another thing altogether.

I am very impressed with women who hold eye contact with me when I am wearing 3 drops of A314. I have been working on holding EC for a little bit longer, getting out of my comfort zone, a thing I got from a body language manual.

28

Hey ntk, do you have Kevin Hogans Body Language course? Is it pretty awesome?

29

Hey ntk, which body language course is better, David DeAngelo’s or Kevin Hogan’s?

30

I am not familiar with Kevin Hogan’s material. David DeAngelo’s stuff - what I have seen of it - looks pretty good. I wholeheartedly recommend a book by Desmond Morris called Manwatching: A Field Guide To Human Behaviour, it’s an old classic. It’s not written as a “how-to” manual but… one can easily see how to use the information therein to read and project nonverbal messages of one’s choosing.

Oh, it appears he’s done another one called Peoplewatching. I have only just noticed it, I imagine it’s pretty good if Manwatching is anything to go by:

Also, I like this site very much, the “Nonverbal Dictionary”, by the anthropologist David B. Givens, some of it is very technical, some of it is not even body language but things like advertisers’ and product designers’ tricks, but there is some good scope for application there:

entries

Then there is “How To Read A Person Like A Book” by Gerard Nierenberg and Henry H. Calero, another excellent book.

Oh yeah… Tisha has a link to a site on body language in her signature. I haven’t looked at it myself - I might do so now actually - but I imagine she has made a good selection specifically for newbies to get acquainted with the subject. There is a free course right there, that will only cost you the time it takes to read it!

31

OK, I am looking at Using Body Language right now, it’s indeed a good one.

I just remembered this little idea I got from Desmond Morris’ book.
On the page “Power Body Language” it mentions that the dominant party initiates more by touching people more. This is something also in the Morris book and in just about every reputable source.

Now, you may not feel comfortable actually touching some people in some contexts. I read about the “intention signal” in Manwatching. It is a gesture you make in the air that conveys intent. So if you don’t want to go full out and touch someone, because the time isn’t right - and I do this all the time - just make a hand gesture as if you were going to touch them, and let it just stop somewhere in their personal space. This may take a bit of practice to get to look natural and effortless as you do it. It is like a casual, palm-down movement as I do it.

Like if someone was taking a course of action that you thought might be a bit rash, you might give the “Hold On A Minute” gesture, which is to put the palm out facing them. It is a symbolic way of “restraining” someone’s misplaced exuberance without putting your hand on them to stop them.

Watch the professionals on TV, the hosts of various shows, interviewers and people like that, see how they conduct themselves. Pay attention to posture, hand gestures, the way they lean in and out at particular times, etc.

32

we should all try to master reading and displaying body language signals, reps. have you checked out the link on tisha’s signature?

33

That is the link in my last post. It looks good, I’m just skimming through it at the minute.

In addition to body language it appears to have stuff on assertiveness, language use and all sorts of other things. I like it: it is a jargon-free explanation of various persuasion skills and techniques.

Also, I’ll post here this guide to “NLP anchoring” which I just quickly Googled up. This can sometimes take a few goes to get right, but it is pretty good when you get it right.

Anchoring Techniques: Practice These NLP Anchoring Techniques Frequently

34

Yea the link on Tisha’s posts are from Kevin Hogan and that’s where I saw his course advertised too. The situation at work is, I am watching a lady I am crazy about and have been working on for 9 months, being taken right from under my nose by a married guy who just started working there 3 months ago. There is nothing I can do to stop it as I have been apparently been sending “non-attractive” signals that I was unaware of all along, even though that was not apparent verbally. I used to spend every break with this lady (no more…I am basically banned from her personal space) one-on-one plus I work on a team very closely with her the rest of the shift. I am finding out about body language too late and 'mones alone aren’t doing anything. Thats the situation I was trying to turn around.

35

Yea the link on Tisha’s posts are from Kevin Hogan and that’s where I saw his course advertised too. The situation at work is, I am watching a lady I am crazy about and have been working on for 9 months, being taken right from under my nose by a married guy who just started working there 3 months ago. There is nothing I can do to stop it as I have been apparently been sending “non-attractive” signals that I was unaware of all along, even though that was not apparent verbally. I used to spend every break with this lady (no more…I am basically banned from her personal space) one-on-one plus I work on a team very closely with her the rest of the shift. I am finding out about body language too late and 'mones alone aren’t doing anything. Thats the situation I was (and still am) trying to turn around. I was devastated for weeks to the point where i felt like I was in the fires of hell, so tormented I was. The sting is beginning to subside, but I will still feel like a loser if I can’t turn this around somehow and regain

36

Ouch Sheraphim :frowning:

It still may not be to late to pull this iron from the fire. I mean this other guy is married, right?

Nine months is a long time to be working on asking her out for a date. You say you weren’t aware of the “non-attractive” signals you were sending out. I’m not sure if I understand…you mean she was getting signals from you that you didn’t find her attractive “in that way”? Does that mean you were also unaware of signals that she may have been sending you? Any signals during that time where you think she may have found you attractive? It makes me think you must have a really good reason for not making a move. If you don’t mind :slight_smile: my gently asking…what’s been holding you up?

Who banned you from her personal space? Did she? Or does he, somehow, always manage to come between you?

Because you and this woman have been friends in the past, there’s no reason you can’t remain friends despite this guy. Unless she’s the one pulling away from you…then you must be careful she doesn’t feel suffocated or imposed upon by your advances, as that will only work against you. They may even get together. Frankly, no good comes from situations like this and more than one person usually ends up hurt. This type of attraction is often short lived. Chances are, especially if he has children, that this will be a fling at least for him and will burn itself out.

Choose your pheromones carefully and keep yourself in as close proximity to her as you’re able. Keep this guy close too. Engage him, befriend him. I know it sounds crazy. See if you can find some common ground with him besides your obvious interest in the same woman. Ask him in a nice way about his kids, his wife…in front of her…sometimes it doesn’t hurt to point out the obvious…:roll_eyes:…just some thoughts…

I’m going to recommend A314 or Instant Gentleman, Instant Female Magic, Instant Shine and P74.

Like I said do what you’re able to do to thwart it without being evil, overbearing, or pushy. How you proceed will depend on the response you get. If you’re that attracted to her and you don’t at least try, you’ll never forgive yourself. So you gotta take a shot, 'cause at this point you don’t have much to lose.

The other thing is…if you’re forced to totally back off and you’re able to retain a semblance of good feelings with her…after this fiasco runs it’s course…there may be another chance…maybe…depends.

Gee, I just butted in here and ran off didn’t I? :roll_eyes: :stuck_out_tongue: Well, take it for what it’s worth…and now I really will run off…

My best to you, seraphim. :slight_smile:

Bella

Sorry for the highjack, ntk. :o

37

Thanks for your post Bella! No need to worry about highjacking my journal, you are welcome any time :slight_smile:

It is sometimes extraordinarily difficult for us guys to show interest, there is a weird tension between “playing it cool” and “showing interest” that can be hard to get right. The fear of rejection can be absolutely overwhelming, and so we settle for the next best feeling that “at least she was nice to me today, and laughed at my jokes”, or something like that. It is possible to get into a vicious circle, and it is not the lady’s fault at all, it is an escalation of one’s own paranoid thoughts. Recently, with the pheromones it has helped a great deal, I’m learning to love -none for example. I have studied the PUA stuff for about a year (modified for my age and personal situation) and the pheros have a subconscious effect so that I don’t feel remotely like I’m faking it anymore but genuinely being the person.

I think Seraphim54 might mean that he was sending out too many “needy” signals and not enough alpha signals. It is very difficult to get right when so much is at stake emotionally. “Nice” is important, Instant Female Magic will do the job of sending out the “nice guy” signal for you, and then some, while you concentrate on showing her that you are alpha. There are different ways of sending the “nice” and “I am harmless” signals, but it is easy to pick the wrong approach and send out “needy”, beta male signals. When the “nice” signals are sent from an alpha standpoint, they are of course more effective and you haven’t disqualified yourself as a potential partner. Seraphim54, is that your situation here?

*Ask him in a nice way about his kids, his wife…in front of her…sometimes it doesn’t hurt to point out the obvious…

http://www.pheromonetalk.com/../images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

…just some thoughts…*

LOL Bella that’s awesome. Seraphim54, you may have to get a little more Machiavellian with all of this. Keep in touch and relay any details that happen with the situation. You could make some other surface changes too, along with wearing the pheros, a new haircut and clothes if you can. Nothing radically different, just new. Because this will help sever the associations with the “old you” as she sees it, and you may be able to start afresh. But keep an eye out for other women to talk to, maybe not at the workplace, I dunno. You should have more options especially with these early days of phero-testing.

38

So you are still having conversations with this woman, in some form or other… try and get the subject onto her, her life, things that she really loves. The best holiday she has ever had, the best Christmas she ever had… Sound enthusiastic and pleased for her as you are leading her to talk about wonderful experiences she may have had in the past.
Remember the adjectives that she uses to describe these experiences, and use them a lot in your own speech around her. She uses these words because they resonate in her mind and are linked to the great experiences she has had in the past. She will like it when you use the same words.
Wearing… Ishine ?

39

LOL I just thought of this little thing. Seraphim54, you may or not find this useful. More wicked, Machiavellian stuff, haha:

This other guy, when talking to him/about him - even better if all three of you including your target are together - this other guy is “the type of guy, who…”

Say this sort of thing to him, don’t overdo it and do it in a friendly tone “So you’re the type of guy, who X…”

X doesn’t have to be negative, it can even be mildly complimentary. You’re in the business of making friends with the dude as Bella says, and meanwhile subtly setting the frame that you’re alpha and he’s beta. He is the type of guy who does whatever. He is predictable, stereotyped and his individuality is called into question. Great if he goes along and agrees with you, Seraphim54, which he might do if you’re delivering complimentary “type” statements.

You on the other hand are not the “type of guy” to do or be anything. You are your own man, who sets the frame for any interactions. You are the alpha dude, who has the betas figured out.

More random thoughts to come. I might use this myself sometime, if I am competing with a guy who deserves it through being a jerk. But I’m not the type of guy:smiley: to go AMOGing other guys as a rule…

AMOG (verb) = to pull a technique to set yourself up as the alpha male and another guy as beta…

Well, I did “type” myself here in this report, LOL. I’ll have to be careful not to do that in future…

40

Thanks for your interest and input Bella. Trust me, I have made moves. I even told her I loved her (which I do), which I didn’t feel after nine months was too soon. BTW I have been wearing A314, Instant Female Magic, and Instant Shine for the last 4 work shifts (I only just recieved my order). The closest thing we had to a date was when she offered to pick me up to go to the hospital with her because our company was requiring all employees to take Pee tests. Afterward we went to a thrift store and browsed for about 1/2 an hour, then she dropped me home (even though I tried my best to extend it). Yes she is very independent and I guess I was suffocating her (explain why a woman would react by crying when I told her I loved her? Then she threatens a sexual harassment complaint, but never follows through with it). I also made the mistake of reacting with jealousy when this guy, who’s intentions are obvious, starts butting in. Well she decided I wasn’t going to tell her who to be friends with and when I tried to resume taking our breaks together, she sat far away and turned her back on me and wouldn’t talk. This jerk was making a habbit of showing up at breaks too (even though he works at another building) and muscleing in on my convo with her. Anyway, since she obviously didn’t want me around and wanted time alone with him, I started taking my breaks elsewhere.
I am happy to report that last night went very well and I believe that the 'pheromones and my keeping myself scarce is finally working. Although I had believed that he had the deal clinched and I was history, it at least appears that she was just asserting her independence. Also he’s started chasing her big time and that will turn her off. She gave me a ride back to the key station from our building for the first time in 2 weeks. So I think I have discovered something here and I’m not about to make the same mistakes I did before. I will continue taking my breaks elsewhere until such time as she asks me back. To answer your question, he has four young children! What a scumbag, pardon my vulgarity!. He’s NOT smooth at all (he even gave her the tired old “my wife doesn’t understand me and our marriage isn’t going well” line!) nor do I think he’s better looking than me. I think I just scared her. I know she was hurt really bad by some jerk in the past just by some things I pieced together (she didn’t give me a beginning to end narrative…there was just something she blurted out angrily one night at me, but which I could tell wasn’t about me at all). What I can gather is that some jerk knocked her up and then ditched her and she had an abortion. Researchers are now discovering that abortions traumatise the mother in varying degrees depending on their sensitivity. Now she tries to play it tough, but I know her well enough to know she is very sensitive.
You may wonder why I don’t just throw in the towel and look elsewhere. Well because she is that special. I’ve never met anyone like her.
So to cap this off, I don’t believe she has consumated this relationship yet. If she has, well then I have misjudged her because I have always percieved an almost saintly virtue in her.
Thanks for listening Bella and your womans viewpoint will be most welcome. I’ve been accused of not being “Alpha” enough but doesn’t my sensitivity count for anything? This guy is a complete ape compared to me.
Anyway, from what I saw tonight, it looks like he went off half-cocked because he wasn’t getting what he wanted. But it’s too late to say that he’s out of the picture yet.