Our Friend tacitus - RIP 12/2010 - A compilation of brilliant and exhilarating posts

[Androtics]

These are Private Messages posted by PheroQuirk in the lounge area here: https://pheromonetalk.com/t/some-non-personal-pms-from-tacitus/48957

For posterity reasons and to ensure they are properly archived I am posting them here as quotes.

@PheroQuirk

I am not posting these without some hesitation, but I have removed anything private and I don’t think he would have objected to these insights being more generally shared.

(re none buffer)
would fit this modus operandi. I’ve tried erotic mixes with and without, buffering strong -none. clearly has a softening, calming action against the hard push of -none. A1 has never made me depressed, edgy, or combative, nor is true dineone strongly fragrant. It is almost odorless with a slighly sweet tinge. I have a suspicion that something else, such as androstenone, may have been labelled as -Androstadienone… you have to be very careful who you deal with in this business…

Having said that, -Androstadienone seems to be greatly improved when it is mixed with A314

Also should say that I am about 50 years old with reduced hormonal output, perhaps with a man in his 20s, -dieneone would cause an overload and some kind of overcompensating depression, such as the aftereffect of taking a strong stimulant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PheroQuirk
Now, what do you suppose it is that is in WAGG, Chikara and A314 (not neccessarily the same compound) that allows one to wear higher doses of 'none with reduced chance of very negative reactions?

Androstadienone on it’s own can’t be it, since none of the products above make men depressed (and I don’t suppose Chikara could be scented if it were).

Have you had much experience with pure 'none-Androstadienone mixes?

Originally Posted by PheroQuirk
*Quote:
Originally Posted by tacitus
Androstadienol would fit this modus operandi.
Does it prevent freak-outs by chicks? Or do you still need to add generous Alpha Androstenol ?

for erotic purposes Alpha Androstenol + androstenone remains one of the best plays in existence, assume you’re already in agreement about what you’re planning to do next, i.e raw sex. some added -Androsterone seems to round it out. -Diol is too smooth for passionate sex, more warm, conversational, not at all animalistic

for pre-erotic purposes, testing the waters, - is a welcome add in, small doses though, it isn’t chatty or blathery like the -nols WILL be, a quieter, almost sedate form of communication, although it has its depths too.

re Alexander Technique - one can practice this on a multitude of levels, like meditation it can be either horribly boring or subtle and enlightening, it isn’t a linear, go in and take two of these and call me in the morning activity… you will find yourself simultaneously outgrowing some lines of inquiry and growing into others, I remember waking up one day and thinking that I’d outgrown the NLP crowd, or they changed, or whatever… sometimes I feel like AT can be sort of retarded and low energy and other times lively in an internal way.. the advanced people do seem to be woken up in ways that most people aren’t, physically and mentally… there is a lot of crappy AT on the market too… the gurus of the world have a rendency to speak to a lame brained element of the population, it is hard to find a teacher who actually is “all that and a bag of chips”… so you find the best you can and work with what you’ve got… balancing planes of development is tricky, you work like crazy to master one plane and you lose touch on another one, so if you can find some way, any way to accelerate the process, that’s pure gold.

The NLP front ? Don’t I wish there was a teacher so compelling that I would drop all activities and seek this being out ? My eyes are always open, there isn’t any strong subsurface rumbling to suggest a hidden master lurking in the depths, frankly, Bandler used to be a hale and hearty fellow, if more than a little , errrr, excessive at times, now he looks awfully imploded, possibly he still has something unique and vital in him, couldn’t say for certain say… there is the big Alexander annual congregation at Sweetbriar college in Virginia, a two week event, quite long by seminar standards if you want a grand tour of the art instead of noodling around with a teacher here and there, hoping you’ll find a good one (the not good ones are hopelessly bad)… this is the winter of our discontent or something like that in the body/mind field, you’re either a pro athlete or a corporate droid now, there isn’t a good middle ground, I think this is the outcome of corporatizing life down to the calluses of its feet, now there are too many dregs, jerkish leftovers pandering to the consciousness scene, very sad, very enrevating…

“wow, changed so recently. i don’t know about nlp . seems to me like they are on to something (and people i respect think it can be helpful). yet every person i have met socially who has been into nlp has been a bit odd in one way or another (in a mildly disturbing rather than purely eccentric way), maybe not the best inspiration for invoking a desire to pursue it further.”

it appears to have been a glacial process, every gifted charismatic group proceess teacher I have known has some of the “wounded healer” archetype going, the thing that is broken in them also gives them the neurotic intensity to inflate in front of an audience… NLP can fill its’ adherents with fantasies of special powers, all the old legends of Milton Erikson and his hypnotic craft, Richard and his outrageous stunts, Tony and his great empowerments… everyone seems to be overcompensating… and some of the foundational NLP theory is unverified crap, that we think in Visual, Auditory, Kinesthetic systems, when my experience is we think in an impure mixture of these modalities… the most real teacher along these lines my be Stephen Gilligan, who has a real PhD in clinical psychology and is really respected in the professional community, and studied closely with John Brinder and Richard Bandler . For more information:

stephengilligan.com

[re cults]
once you’ve been through the drill it isn’t a fresh the second time around, same with me and EST , the next one had all the wrong aromas. Scientology with their E-meters was laughable and scary… an OT6 walked up to me and demanded to know “why is a tree a tree?” Say what ?

a’how did u make the move from biochem to acting? was the drive toward self-realisation the reason? or did u get into all this stuff to become a better actor?"

another long glascial process, some cultural anthropology made me wonder about group processes and collective trance, and how groups migh be coordinating the processes

"yes, the mechanics of how groups makes decisions in practice seems poorly understood. and i’m not sure the neocortex is as much in charge as it likes to think.

how often/in what situations do u think collective trance plays a part in things?"

Gilligan has much to say about trance states, they are really common phenomena, although they aren’t usually directed with much cortical planning. Some charismatic types seem to have an intuitive grasp of their processes and manipulate them somewhat at will.

After years of study will every NLP “master”, Gilligan, and across several cultural platforms I find that I do eneter into a state that is both directed consciously and unconsciously (or from the second attention as John Grinder, borrowing from Carlos Casteneda, likes to call it) where I will do group trancework… at times I have achieved gratifying results when a member of an acting class spontaneously demonstrates a sudden flash of hightened competence afeter a piece of trance induction… of course you can learn to be so covert about these things, and the group is in a nice eyes open trance, I did one thing recently where there was an electric heater shifting off and on, making a metallic buzzing sound, so I gave the group the suggestion that it was a Sitar they were listening to and the buzzing was the sitar drone, and then i talked about the beauties of Indian classical music and it’s subtly shifting harmonic cores, and pretty soon the heater was doing the induction for me as the room dazed on the suggestion that they were listening to sitar, then of course on to the idea that one could experience dramatic increases in their general life competence… another corporate girl named Janis I suggested that we sing Janis Joplin duets so she could beging to feel all the human complexity she couldn’t in a corporate setting… ya know, you can do some very nice stuff…
"yes, the mechanics of how groups makes decisions in practice seems poorly understood. and i’m not sure the neocortex is as much in charge as it likes to think.

how often/in what situations do u think collective trance plays a part in things?"

Gilligan has much to say about trance states, they are really common phenomena, although they aren’t usually directed with much cortical planning. Some charismatic types seem to have an intuitive grasp of their processes and manipulate them somewhat at will.

After years of study will every NLP “master”, Gilligan, and across several cultural platforms I find that I do eneter into a state that is both directed consciously and unconsciously (or from the second attention as John Grinder, borrowing from Carlos Casteneda, likes to call it) where I will do group trancework… at times I have achieved gratifying results when a member of an acting class spontaneously demonstrates a sudden flash of hightened competence afeter a piece of trance induction… of course you can learn to be so covert about these things, and the group is in a nice eyes open trance, I did one thing recently where there was an electric heater shifting off and on, making a metallic buzzing sound, so I gave the group the suggestion that it was a Sitar they were listening to and the buzzing was the sitar drone, and then i talked about the beauties of Indian classical music and it’s subtly shifting harmonic cores, and pretty soon the heater was doing the induction for me as the room dazed on the suggestion that they were listening to sitar, then of course on to the idea that one could experience dramatic increases in their general life competence… another corporate girl named Janis I suggested that we sing Janis Joplin duets so she could beging to feel all the human complexity she couldn’t in a corporate setting… ya know, you can do some very nice stuff…

“oh yes - it’s not going to be a very controlled experiment”

TAF feel like a great adjunct pheromone, it lacks the warmth of the -nols or the passion of -Androstadienone or -none… although in combination with them a raw dopamnine surge might be interpreted as a thing of erotic wonder, a great fragrant night blooming orchid bursting out of a clump of wet moss… ergo, (have a look at jasmin’s latest post about TAF in the vacinity of methoxy- est ) one might want to be extra particular about the circumstances when running this experiment. You could get pounced on by a hungry spider.

“oh yes - it’s not going to be a very controlled experiment”

Re: MOET
"we need to get an abbreviation for this
thing

I may well be imagining this, but did seem to see a shift in vision on inhaling and again music seems different. Find it hard to articulate what the difference is though. So keep an eye out and let me know if you do end up noticing any changes in perception"

let’s allow a critical mass of impressions to form… it is doing something, that’s certain.

I suggested to Jasmin - next stop 100mcg TAF and 2 shots of absinthe

ummmm, yukkkkk, I think Baudelaire said that waking up from an absinthe hangover was like sleeping in shit. To me it’s plain nasty, a foul, vile high…

I’ve never done acid or e, but I wonder how TAF would influence that experience.*

Might be too much of a good thing. I was reading that “serious trippers” (is that an oxymoron or what ?) were gravitating towards adding small doses of sedatives like banzodiazapenes to soften the trip… there have been reliable reports that pheromes can have a powerful, perhaps too powerful for emotional comfort, impact when used with strong cannabis. Emotional stuff may arise that some are not prepared to handle…

what do you think about taf’s use in meditation btw? i heard one chap was ordering it for that purpose.

meditation… too alert for that, move you away from the classic meditative theta state, up to a higher frequency beta…

Quote:
there have been reliable reports that pheromes can have a powerful, perhaps too powerful for emotional comfort, impact when used with strong cannabis.
yes, i saw reports to that effect at the other place from one of the more interesting posters there.

cannabis has evolved into powerful mind altering stuff… I now hear reports of uses self admitting into health clincs because they are suffering from (hopefully temporary) memory loss… the late generation hydroponic growing technology and more sophisticated plant genetics have unleased another one of the great unintended consequences on us… wouldn’t want to expose the users to a high intensity -pheromone unless they were solid stable individuals, and me, I wouldn’t be there in the first place…

Re: ‘polishing coconuts’
believe it or not there are now philosophers who contemplate this sort of thing… I think they call it “manifestation theory”… there’s a guy in Encenitas, California who studied closely with the legendary Milton Erikson, one Stephen Gilligan:

Milton Erickson | Hypnosis | Self-Relations | by Stephen Gilligan Ph.D

he’s not a manifestationist, although he does some heavy work with the RAS and the ways filters are set… he can do deep work with the unconscious mind and how it creates what the conscios mind takes for reality

Quote:
Originally Posted by PheroQuirk
was thinking about taf and reading up on the RAS in google when I came across the following - thought you would find the description of a social dynamic to be interesting

SoulfulLiving.com - A Feature Article on Writing and Intention - Write It Down, Make It Happen, by Henriette Anne Klauser - Soulful Living

Re: hi
from a brain science point of view:

Political bias affects brain activity, study finds - Technology & science - Science - LiveScience - msnbc.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by PheroQuirk
will reply over next few days. about to head to spore. thought you might find the below of interest

http://www.gmu.edu/jbc/Tyler/PrideandSelf.pdf

Re: TAK afterthoughts
after considerable experimentation it seems reasonable to conclude that human brains are gestalt forming organs, the lower regions of the brain take in a huge amount of undifferentiated information and progressively trim it, refine it, compare and map to the higher brain regions… so it is exceedingly hard to pin down any specific “IT” that shapes one’s present sense/feeling/congnition about what reality is, whether social reality or physical reality…

Pheromones and sensual odorants obviously adjust this mysterious process in some interesting ways which may lead one to disregard the full bundle of forces at work

John Grinder of NLP fame was very focused on the idea of unconscious state matching (i.e. rapport creating) and state dis-matching processes which he believes took place outside of conscious awareness.

In some converssation with him, he appeared to be thoroughly innocent of pheromone chemistry or theory, more surprising his cluster of adherents were overtly hostile to the idea of pheromones as having any contribution to this rapport business, as they may have undermined certain of the basic tenets of the NLP model…

Funny thing was that Grinder was a big fan of Thomas Kuhn, author of The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, that suggested this very thing, that a new piece of information would arise which would be highly discrepant with established paradigms, and that the old generation would feel that their authority, learning, investments, and prestige would be threatened by this novel thing…

It was the appearance of pheromones on the scene that threatened to have a Kuhnian impact on the orthodoxy of NLP, and the NLP community reacted in the predictable way… which goes to show that one have have an intellectual grasp of a topic yet be fully unable to comprehend its’ relevance to the present situation.

What makes people tick is complicated… the tactical approach of body language, pacing, leading, immediate social signals, may disregard the importance of long standing cultural forms, family dynamics, early childhood experience, education or lack thereof, political and economic frames…

One could ramble on at great length here…

Quote:
Originally Posted by PheroQuirk
awesome post. one of the most insightful on any topic I have seen, even amongst yours. possibly life-changing. do you suppose the something else is mostly a chemical messenger? (some derivative of cortisol?) or due to a bunch of things including posture, body language and subtle facial expressions etc?

cc michael in case anything to add

Re: impi
can’t name any novel ones… spent time with the head of research for a fragrance industry trade association… he said that sesquiterpene synthesis can’t be done except at extreme cost in the laboratory, they have to get them from natural sources, except now they are testing trans-genetic technology to do it by putting the right DNA into yeast… aloeswood/agarwood, assuming you have the real material, is definitely psychoactive and quite pro-erotic as well as unbelievably fragrant… a sesquiterpene complex…
vetiver, also a popular sort of unpleasant scent IMHO, another one…I would suspect many of the fragrant wood oils, esp the southeast asian variety, are combos of various terpene classes..

Quote:

Originally Posted by PheroQuirk
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacitus
wonder if it one of the psychoactive sesquiterpenes from a bark or root where such things are found ?
interesting - are there any other sesquiterpenes in partic you have found helpful (beyond the ones you mentioned on LS)?

e: phero burnout
it seems to be a general thing, varies for pheromone to pheromone.. that’s why I don’t use them every day, maybe every 4th day maximum, because they really work my neurological-endocrine axes pretty well, it would be like drinking a lot of strong espesso all the time… and balancing the yin pheromones with the yang pheromones is a good idea too, so you aren’t over stretched in either direction.. Androstadienone can, but not always, have this backdraft effect of feeling sort of unsocial and not into talking to people..

Quote:

Originally Posted by PheroQuirk
I think I tend to experience same with high doses of Androstadienone. Feel grimey, blah and depleted. Have you noticed this with anything else? (It doesn’t seem to happen for me with none for ex).

tw was reminded v much today of your point about importance of voice/tonality etc. had been making a conscious effort to work on this (for now just simple stuff - paying attention to breathing and singing scales and arpeggios in shower) with I think some useful effect.

The best thing to do is get a good recorder and a good microphone (with a wind “pop” foam cover so you don’t overload the microphone with air blowing over it) and listen to yourself reading text. Shakespeare is perfect because of his use of meter… sometimes when I listen to old Londoners talk, people now in their seventies or so, I remember how refined, how disciplined, and yet how unselfconsciously beautiful, and clearly expressive on multiple levels, emotive and logical both common speech could be, with no affectations, and I think a great confidence came with that, that one could be understood and that one could easily understand, and many emotional planes could be at work without being precious or excessively denotative…
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