interesting thread. special thanks to markL for introducing to discussion the question of how a host of factors, simple inebriation not least, may effect a users impressions of the effect pheromones are having on self and others. a quick review of recent scientific studies yields the following conclusion–pheromones play a bigger role as biosocial determinants than previously thought; more studies needed. why this should be such a grudging admission i can’t tell. there seems to be an old and powerful interdict against suggesting that pheromones are anything but vestigial and superceded in evolutionary terms. it;s a scientific prejudice stangely enough, but science is changing. just to be clear, i am guardedly optimistic that i’ll see effects comparable to those reported here; and that on the strength of the posts ive read at this forum alone. of course i’ll really only be seducing my wife, so i won’t have to discriminate pheromonal effects from those produced by alcohol consumed in a singles bar, say. and thanks too to ali for enlightening post about pheromones as gild and the ethical dimension of pheromone use.
It seems that i have drifted from the subject with all my chat.
When my skin has no accumulated pheromones and i only apply 1 spray of TUTH 2.5mcg of v1.1 it does give VERY mixed results. This is not ODing. It’s more the fact that the girl is NOT in a in a fertile part of her cycle so she isn’t attracted. Also, if i look like crap while wearing TUTH, girl will not be attracted. We shouldn’t always blame it on OD. Ohhhhh shit, hot girl on msn, GTG!!!
I agree, they simply had low self-esteem.
I’ve had experiences with OD’ing on Primal Instinct, which has very high androstenone content. I think it’s 21mcg/drop. In response to the OP, let me explain my experiences with OD’ing. In a way, yes, it has to do with congruency. But, beyond congruency, it should also be noted that pheromones have a very real effect on other people, and therefore, it makes interactions very awkward at best.
Even though I may have mentioned that I’ve been using pheromones for several months, one thing I did not learn until coming to these boards is that not all products are appropriate for use at all times. You may think “duh,” but for some reason it didn’t click until I read the warnings on the product pages here, that said for example, “do not use this product at work, etc.” Then I noticed the stickied threads atop this forum, that recommend certain products for certain situations. What a discovery!
I decided to try Primal Instinct about a month ago. I was blown away, and I thought I was living in some sort of fantasy land because the results were so unreal. I was very careful at first, but I started to OD inevitably due to build-up. For about a 2-week period I felt like I had permanently OD’d. On Love Scent, I posted about my “permanent OD” to which most replied it must be “all in my head.” There were other variables such as caffeine that could have made me nervous or overly observant. It may appear unreal, but about a week ago, before finding pherotalk, I OD’d again on Primal Instinct (without any other variables present). Anyhow, the same reactions happened, including walking into a room and having every single woman, no matter young, old, fat, tall, short, skinny - all of them crowding around me - and on the other hand, all men being repulsed and staying at least 10-20 feet away.
What I learned from these experiences is that certain pheromones are only appropriate for certain situations. I will never again use Primal Instinct during the day. I can’t believe I was so stupid. It should be reserved for clubbing or the bedroom only. Even then I’m going to have to deal with build-up the next day.
One observation is clear: women don’t expect to be that turned on during the day. Primal Instinct is incredibly strong and very easy to OD with; 21mcg of androstenone per drop is no joke! Often, I found that getting that much attention reduces my productivity during the day. It doesn’t break the ice, it melts it! Still, it was difficult to really get connected on an emotional level with most women because of the aura I was projecting with the high androstenone. The only environment that Primal Instinct proved very effective has been clubbing/nightscene where nonverbal communication is the norm.
I want to also mention that Carrie is right about cover scent. Too much cover scent can also make people around you uncomfortable. I learned this the hard way as well.
Great post Ail! Terry posted something similar to that on Love Scent a while ago.
Lastly, I’m going to have to try the Oxi-Clean. But what do you mean by “ozonating”?
Great poste. Somehow, for all this time i never caught on to the idea not to wear TUTH in the day. BRB, i’ll go lock my TUTH in my safe and put a note on the key that says “Thomas, is it night time, are you clubbing?”.
(Really, i’m gona do that right now!)
No,you read me wrong - I should have put " this guys mental ".Was just repeating what they said - not calling you mental. jeez!
LOL, sorry man, this must seem bad, your second post and some asshole (me) starts blasting you. sorry man, my apology, please stay in this forum.
(If you read back through the posts, you’ll see that i said sorry)
“mortequine flagellation” LOL ROTF Will have to remember that, although I will have to write it down and repeat it to myself on a regular basis to get it to stick.
Great opening post MarkL, and a good question. Many things are a matter of degree, not a simple cut and dried thing.
And the convo sure took off there. Whooo…
Also: Shall we start the Mensa/Intertel/Triple Sigma threads now too? This forum is better than the monthly meetings. (I only qualify on the Mensa one…)
I admit, I also had this thought. Maybe I still do, but in no way I mean to blame you. I rather think that you were going through an experince that is fascinating to do more research about. And I thank you for sharing it.
Assuming that there were a lot of situations during your “pemanent OD phase” when it was physically impossible that your pheromones reached others - and yet you still perceived strong reactions - there are only two possibilities:
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I was really only your perception.
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There are other ways for you to unconsciously trigger those reactions in others.
I either case, your nightmare was probably triggered my an initial OD of androstenone.
I believe and experience that there may be an energetical level of communication between all people. There is not much science about this yet, though. I am open to the idea that you may have communicated your OD experience energetically to women in other cars etc.
I believe that we experience what we believe about ourself and that there is more to this truth than selective perception. And you sure experienced what you believed (even if you did not like it): That you were a walking OD dose of androstenone!
I would be very interested if someone did more research about it.
Ah, you mean something like a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I, personally, believe in a philosophy known as the “law of attraction,” which has recently been popularized by a movie called “The Secret,” now floating over the Internet. Anyhow, I concur, when you really believe something it can manifest to your reality.
So, perhaps, I was creating these reactions, that is a possibility. I have thought about this a lot actually, and that possibility has led me to think about ‘how effective are pheromones, really?’
What if you could achieve the reactions of pheromones, simply by visualizing the end result of those effects, such a turned-on woman, or lots of respect from coworkers, etc? As a believer in being able to manifest your own reality, I have thought if I have really done this, why do I even use pheromones? I could just splash on some water.
For example, one thing I consistently already manifest with this thought process is free parking spots over and over where 95% of people have trouble.
Anyhow, without going too much off topic, I think it is possible to produce pheromone-like results without the actual products, but I just have not achieved such a powerful state of mind yet.
So, I definitely understand your logic…I got waaay off topic, but hopefully you found it interesting
HAHAHAHAHA SMOOTH!!!
isnt it funny, everyone who sees that movie (the secret) cant help refering to it every chance they get.they did a big thing on it on Larry King Live and the Ellen show.
have you seen “what the bleep do we know?” too?
my family and i have had devasting results with Androstadienone , and it never occured to me other than maybe slight yuckiness that the possiblility for suicidal depression was there. my son was exposed to high levels of this stuff (not from here) and flipped out to the point of id rather not say.heh not manifested intentionally,i assure you.
OD’s can happen at different levels with different people and different stuff. when we think its “fun” to OD purposefully, i wonder what we are doing to other people,who are not used to them at that level, and dont know why they feel so bad. until we know more about pheromones, i use them with respect to my environment (and little ones that dont understand their feelings ) as well.
It is interesting, not only because of all the Secret and Bleep stuff.
We can not really tell how much of the pheromone effects that we notice on others are due to the effect on ourself and the nonverbal communication we send out because we feel better (or worse). How much of the nonverbal communication is of energetical nature, we don’t know either.
We also don’t know to what extend we can (do) actually change the universe, even change matter, with our beliefs.
Since you and I believe that we do that, pheromones play an role in this. Anything that is capable of affecting us psychologically, will have in influence on what and how we manifest. And pheromones are affecting us psychologically, very much!
Lor, that is ‘spot on’ – at this point we don’t have any way to do an “environment impact statement” or a “social impact statement”, and perhaps we never will.
But there is both an ethical and aesthetic dimension to using pheros, beyond the instrumental and economic.
It is a moving target.
You change daily, your phero output, mood, and even the temp of your body and environment.
The other person changes as well, physically, situation, mood, own phero reception ..
It is quite a dynamic setup, no wonder all the mixed results.
What can be done, is use the theory of average, divided by 2:
If you worry much about OD and OK to sacrifice some effectiveness, and you know a dose of a mix that works well (on average) for you … use half that.
That most likely would minimise your OD chances significantly.
hahaha, sorry Lor, I couldn’t help myself The Secret, certainly is not a “secret” when I’m around. Actually, I haven’t seen that movie, but I’m going to rent it soon. I’ve heard a lot of good things about it.
I really like how you put it, Sunny, that perhaps it is the way pheromones make ME feel that makes me believe I can have that effect on other people. You’re right though, there is no way we can know.
Mak, you also make an interesting point. I didn’t think of that, and it definitely makes sense.
We don’t need to believe that how we feel has an effect on others. It always does…