https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-often-does-androtics-make-new-batches/41215/23
(How often does androtics make new batches? - #24 by P51Mustang)
Wow, thanks for making new posts out of my replies. That’s really great!
I was just talking to someone about the Game scent privately, btw, and he really appreciated what we did about it… that it diffused amazingly well. That was the primary thing about that scent we loved. The fresh scent Americans like, combined with enormous diffusion power, like a 300 watt halogen lightbulb.
We have been looking into alternatives. We’ll launch a test pack soon w/our own diffusion experiments.
We’re LOCKED out of using certain molecules companies like IFF keep to themselves, but we do have a few tricks up our sleeve. We’ll definitely see what we can do about the diffusion problem! It’s just a little tough with the “ultra captive” molecules that are only used by “house perfumers”, and the inability to use lots of polys which will banned shortly.
hah… maybe that was the biggest reason i was getting more DIHL’s with the GAME, lol
IFRA seems to be loosening up their pro-ban stance at the moment, probably because the perfume industry can’t handle new development during a bad economy, but there’s still bans on the table in the EU and elsewhere.
Here’s the proposed GS-50 (GreenSeal 50) proposed bans for personal care products:
2-butoxyethanol
Alkylphenol ethoxylates
Benzophenones and its derivatives
Butylated hydroxytoluene
2-butoxyethanol
Ethoxylated chemicals
Ethylene diaminetetra-acetic acid or any of its salts
Formaldehyde donors
Halogenated organic solvents
Hazardous air pollutants
Heavy metals including, lead, hexavalent chromium, or selenium both in the elemental form or compounds
Methyldibromo glutaronitrile
Mercury-containing compounds
Mineral oils
Monoethanolamine, Diethanolamine, and Triethanolamine alone or in compounds Nitrilotriacetic acid
Nitro-musks
Optical brighteners
Parabens
Paraffin wax
Petrolatum
Phosphorus-containing chemicals
Phthalates
Polycyclic musks
TRI PBT chemicals
Triclosan
Enough people have complained saying they don’t care what’s in their cologne or perfume as long as it smells good (look at the revolt against new formulations on sites like basenotes and the perfume blogs), so these bodies seem to be backing off a little bit on the actual fragrance category.
However, the appearance on this list this does mean they consider these items at least potentially toxic. We take that seriously, especially when alternatives to some of these exist. For example, why use parabens when there’s much safer preservatives that don’t cost much, if any, more money? It’s not the worth the risk.
We figure, even if it’ll be 2015 by the time some things will be banned outright by EU and IFRA, we might as might well do our best to comply now and try to make safer products in the process. What will be considered harmful enough to ban in 2012, 2015 or 2020 is still dangerous now. It’s important to be ahead of the curve on safety.
Yeah, it was amazing. Many didn’t like the scent due to personal preferences, but you couldn’t argue with the results!
I guess if we could scrape up the money, we could re-order it, but it would only be up to 2010 IFRA standards, whereas we try to figure out what the standards will be a few years ahead.
IFRA hasn’t banned much this year at all at their 45th conference, maybe 3 to 5 substances. They seem to have backed off a bit on their safety agenda due the economy. Even the giant companies can’t seem to afford the R&D necessary to create alternative molecules right now.
So where should I make the check out to?
I’ll have Jessejester hand deliver it to you personally
How about having the option to choose GAME over the other two scents. You can charge additional $3-5 for togo (GAME) and 5 to 10$ for 20ml GAME;
Whoever doesn’t want to pay the extra fee can settle for FF21 or FF22, lol
I, as well as many others, are willing to pay a bit more.
P.S. I am not going overboard like Jesse and say I will pay 25$+ additional fee - haha
State of the economy, making brand new batches, THAT could be tough.
I hope you understand that it would be for the hundreds of kilos, or whatever the minimum order is now. The perfume house we got it from became very anti-small business the past few years. Very prima donna like.
It’s seriously something like “You like that sample, huh? Ok, well you’ve got to buy 50k bottles of this stuff at once, or else!”
Ugh!
But hey, if any of you guys have enough cash to help with something like that, I’ll sign a prosper.com like loan at 10 to 12% for just about anything you want. We can always pay back things over time. We’re good for payments, often pay up early (which is annoying to lenders, I know), and I definitely have the provable credit to back those statements up last time I checked. We don’t like keeping debt around, but we’ve always used temporary debt to get ahead. It’s great when the money is around to lend! (something banks seem to have forgotten)
It’s not about the extra fees per bottle, it’s ordering this stuff without proper credit lines anymore.
I have mentioned we – after working hard to have perfect credit – lost 2 credit lines several months after dear president put the bankers on a trillion dollars of welfare, yes?
It apparently rewarded their bad behavior instead of “saving” them, and saving our economy.It also seem to have “trickled down” mentally and made many people lazier as they thought “Ok, they got rewarded for being lazy idiots, I’m gonna do the same thing and wait for my check! Whee!”
Anyone else notice that everyone in the US seemed to become more difficult to deal with for a whole year after that fiasco? I think that’s why. Bailouts make people go crazy and give up doing the right thing for awhile. That was a major part of my stress problem in '09 and most of this year. Too many people I had to deal with become an impossible to deal with a*hole.
NPR actually ran a piece on this, I remember now!
Normally during a recession people become nicer and work harder, like the culture at Trader Joes. But with the banker bailout and housing bailout, and this bailout and that bailout, many people became indifferent and some nasty instead. It was bad for the country’s mood and sense of responsibility “Oh, I’ll just destroy things and act reckless, and money will rain down, I know it!”
Also, the particular supplier of game only wants to sell a ton of it due to ever increasing min order quantities. Probably more than we’ve used in our entire 7 years. Just a ton. It’s tough coming up with that money upfront. Even the freight and cold storage fees for that much fluid are pretty high!
It might just be better off working with our new perfume house to come up with something better than what they’ve provided so far.
There’s also the diffusion split test pack Harris wanted released for awhile now. Now that we’re re-organizing the company to put out new things again, that should be on the agenda.
You know my stand on it you have my PM’s. You let me know what I can do, I will try to get you the lowest lender possible.
That’s right, did I not thank you for that yet? If not, I’m apologize! Thank you!!
There’s also two smaller banks I wanted help evaluating. You’re more than qualified to help with that, too, aren’t you?
The first thing I’d do with a good general line, is fix our chemist’s operation and stock up on corevpheromone molecules.
Not sure the old Game scent would be as high on my priority list without a more substantial vote, but if we were given a “Game cologne” only credit line by our actual clients, I could hardly say “no” 
From a business standpoint, I honestly wouldn’t do game scent, there are other things IMO that would be best spent money on. FF21 and FF22 really aren’t that bad. Heck I love Neroli, and my next AMMO order I’m going to custom it for Neroli.
You know there is no need for thanks Jas, this forum, the members, you, Steve, have all helped me in my personal development. Without AD and A314, I wouldn’t be as successful as am today. Without the confidence, and help I’ve gotten from here, I would have been set back further, I know I would have gotten there eventually but this just pushed the envelope.
There are certain things I have to keep private, but you have my contact info, so anytime, you let me know.
Damn! Jasmin, you’re a gem!!
As for Game scent… Yes, it’s very tempting to beg to get it back. The scent was okay but it was the results I really, REALLY fell in love with. I say, for now, lets check out the new scent packages you have in store for us. With the right results, I will change my scent preference to fit my successes. 
maybe this has already been answered , when you guys talk about greater diffusion, do you mean that it diffuses faster? thus making your signal more concentrated and stronger ? or do you mean it stays airborne longer endust carries harder increasing your range ?
I can say with confidence that you share the feelings of a lot of people that own small businesses. As for comments specifically with banks I unfortunately can’t do that. There are too many things out there that people can use in a negative light.
Somehow certain scents really allow mones to travel well. Not just travel well, but seem to assist in reception of the brain. That’s why MX292 (by all reports) outperformed MX353. Same mix, different scent. Jasmin even admits there was something about Game scent that really did the trick. It’s not greater diffusion, but better.
We deal with all of the problems perfumers do. Gettings things off the skin, and into the air in the right concentration for the right time. At the same time perfumers want diffusion so you can smell a scent easily, they also fixation, which makes sure it doesn’t happen too fast.
It’s a complex series of parameters, really, but that gives you an idea of what we’re looking for. We need the functional equivalent what perfumers use for their class of chemicals, for ours, which are a little bit different than typical perfuming molecules. There’s some overlap, but not all of the same diffusion and fixation methods work as well with mones.
Beyond that, we also think in terms of both a followable scent trail (or sillage) that would like a smoke trail if you could see it and an “auric” one that radiates scent outward equally, like a lightbulb.
For social products, we just wax maximum diffusion, we don’t care if it leaves much of an identifiable trail as long it spreads around the room and effects many people as possible. Let the good times roll.
For identity (a314), sexy (Ammo), and sometimes certain emotive (Shine, estratetraenol, TAH, p74, etc) products, we want more of an identifiable scent trail so the brain can associate certain feelings with the wearer. For times when you want the receiver to know who the sender is.
I don’t just admit it, that’s exactly why we picked it. 
I know it wasn’t the most complex scent in the world, but it was crazy diffusive. It also happened to be very clean smelling, like a lot of guys like. For our purposes, as a pheromone development project, it seemed close to perfect. Non-offensive, diffusive, clean.
That scent uses a LOT of perfumers tricks and some propriety tech from the perfuming company that made it.
It, along with Akuto an the original Ammo scent, made by the world’s #1 secret producer of department store type scents, the winner of about half of all FiFi fragrance awards. They have some serious perfume tech going on.
They were a natural partner for us. We prided ourselves on using the very best pheromone chemist in the world, and coming his work with one of the very best perfume tech houses in the world. Then their CEO left and replaced by a guy who runs it more like a commodities trading floor than a creative fragrance house. He made it difficult for us to contact the creatives, and raised order minimums to a level far above what we can easily handle at our order volume. The lack of credit in the US compounds all this.
The newest perfume house we’ve been working with is fine, but I don’t think they fully understand what we need yet. Either that, or they’re locked out of the kind of propriety tech the other house has.
To get around being captive to some outside scent tech, we have been working on our own diffusion package. We actually need to slowly split test our way to a good one that works for as many people as possible. We’ll likely be conducting public tests on here within the next few weeks.
It’s an art form definitely appreciated here.
For everyone.
Which is what Game did so well. Glad you guys are working on more great scents that compliment the product! Really excited to try them!