We already know what body chemistry is needed to product what pheromones (except the putatives, remember - those ‘act’ like pheromones but may or may not be pheromones themselves)
So if you had your sweat analyzed/blood tested for hormones/etc. then you could get a good idea of what you put off.
The book is called Eating For Your Type and is old enough to make multiple, regular appearances in thrift stores. I loved this concept and it clarified LOTS of things for me, personally. I found it to be an accurate description of my best eating pattern. I have a bunch of weird food intolerances and a couple of odd allergies - for example, I’m allergic to aloe vera 
. I actually didn’t like steak as a kid, and my blood type (A+) doesn’t process beef well and is the only one to benefit from caffeine! Yay. Just an example.
Given the weaknesses of the ABO system, what about Rhesus factors? It’s gotta have an impact, since A+ can’t donate to A-. Maybe that would be an intensity factor? And possibly a reverse result? Like maybe the +'s max out earlier? As in less is more for the positive’s? Possible? Maybe this is one of the things that may be clearer with a large cross-section of data.
What I did was to take the lists, and just start observing how many things in a day/week I ate that were on the non-beneficial list. Then I just started not eating that last bite of that food. As your body readjusts, you find that that your taste buds readjust. However, there are a bunch of things on my beneficial and optimum lists that I’m severely intolerant to.
I’m egg albumen (white) intolerant! Never liked eggs as a kid; and the only way I would eat them was if they were boiled for 20 minutes - that way I was sure that stuff was cooked. Eeeewww. Turns out, that all the things that made me cry to have to eat when I was a kid - I’m intolerant to. Leaving me with a taste for a bunch of things I now miss, and seriously couldn’t stomach as a kid.
Folks, if you want to believe in this eating for your blood type stuff, that’s great – it’s a free country and all. But please don’t believe it is at all scientific.
Those lists are in the original book: Eating for your Type. At least, that’s the title it was published under in Oz. I ended up giving the book away and just keeping a photocopy of the lists - in the kitchen. Made it real easy. Plus at the time, my 2 closest friends were the same blood type as me 
Made for some feel smugly good about ourselves time.
And I’ll defend your right to say so, but please, take note of where we’re discussing this.
Well, we are in the “Pheromone Theory” forum. To me, this is the place to discuss science-based ideas. That is why I cringe to see this here. I’d probably cringe less if it were in the lounge.
Remembering that not so long ago, Pheromones were not considered to be in any way scientifically measurable or proven to actually impact human behavior. This is a (comparatively) new concession from the scientific community. Every new discovery is hokum in the beginning. There is still a flat earth society.
Astrea, that is not really true about pheromones and I think you have some misconceptions about how science works.
Human pheromones have been long suspected, and scientific studies, such as McClintock’s work in the 70’s, have at least suggested, if not definitively proven, their existence; these go back a number of decades, at least to the 60’s or so. The concept that human might have pheromones was never exactly hokum, though biologists who were overly confident of the concept without sufficient data to support the strength of their convictions would probably be called out on it.
In contrast, there is no scientific grounds at all for the blood group diets, certainly there is no scientific basis at all for making explicit, detailed recommendations that certain people eat certain foods because of their ABO blood type. Also, the evolutionary history of ABO alleles as presented by the proponent of blood type diets has been proven wrong by very strong molecular evidence that is widely accepted in the scientific community.
Scientists and scientific studies can be wrong, but real science has mechanisms for correcting wrong ideas and mistakes. However, the ABO blood type diet author has all the hallmarks of pseudoscience – he mentions “science” alot, but there are no scientific studies that specifically address all the claims he makes. He cites sources that look scientific, but close examination reveals they are either irrelevant to his central claims or they are not really scholarly sources. I doubt he’s open to falsification of his pet ideas. He selectively ignores all evidence that doesn’t support, or that falsifies his claims.
I’m not sure how the Flat Earth Society adds to your argument. If any it strengthens mine because it shows how readily people will wallow in ignorant, irrational ideas, even in the face of insurmountable evidence that conflicts with those ideas, just because the ideas appeal to them.
edited to add: also, RE “discoveries” starting out as hokum. You are right that new knowledge is sometimes slow to be accepted; that is one of the self-correcting mechanisms in scientific methodology. Not only that, but the more revolutionary the idea, the stronger the data supporting the idea need to be, in order to gain acceptance. But – and here is the important part – Scientific discoveries are outcomes of scientific studies. The ABO diet guy did not plan experiments/studies, implement them, draw conclusions, and then write a book about it. He just wrote a book about it. He skipped the “research” part. That is not a “discovery” in the scientific sense. That is just a quack selling books.
Thanx for the lecture. I have done my science for my business. I have been socialising with scientists since before college. Empirical evidence is only empirical when the community decides the change to current theories is acceptable. “Scientists” routinely ignore anything that doesn’t conform to current parameters.
Just because You don’t see the value (your a medical researcher?) doesn’t mean it’s valueless. I’m officially bored, now.
This is a subforum for discussing science; all I’m doing is offering a scientific perspective for anyone reading this thread who might be interested in exploring such. My “lecture” was merely a reply to statements that you addressed to me. My first post in this thread was not addressed to or picking on any particular person.
If it matters, I am a research biologist, though not in the field of medicine. It has not been my experience that empirical evidence is ignored if it doesn’t conform to current parameters. It is actually just the opposite: additional evidence supporting already-tested ideas is not considered nearly as exciting as evidence that pushes our knowledge into new areas. In fact, the top-rated research journals in any field will generally only publish papers that present new discoveries and/or overturn traditional or previously held ideas.
If someone did a real experiment that showed dietary differences between ABO blood groups, there would be no particular reason why the study would be suppressed or not accepted for publication in a decent peer-reviewed journal. There are, in fact, some papers in the medical literature that report diseases and several cancers that have slight but statistically significant risk differences among persons with different blood types. The scientists who conducted these studies were able to publish their work. Why would the blood type diet doctor (or anyone else) be unable to publish data about diet and blood types?
Like everything I do in life lol —I’m A+
Some possible blood type info below…
Blood Types do seem to have an effect on pheromones only because certain type O seem to have an easier genetic ability to digest protein which leads naturally to higher testosterone and more muscle. Those with higher T output of course higher levels of things like Enone and possibly Erone, likely from increased Dopamine output. Eating Mickey D’s every day I’m sure would counter any genetic’s however lol… Same as anyone who supplemented to counteract their genetics… Looks like non muscular A’s might need some Betaine HCL to assist their stomach acid perhaps.
It seems to all tie in to the testosterone levels.
My theory is that the easy OD on none is caused from the already higher testosterone levels that increase the output of dopamine -> adrenaline -> pheromones.. And Type O blood has easy protein digestion with higher stomach acid. This leads to higher muscle mass from the protein and intake of things like zinc, which leads to that higher natural testosterone with a proper diet.
Here is a link to a study that shows a relationship in T and serotonin for example…
Testosterone Supplementation May Increase Serotonin Levels in the Brain | MD Magazine
I tested the theory with using L-Tyrosine which boosts dopamine in large quantity around 3000-5000/day and it increased output of hits. I believe a few others have tried this like Pagodiero as well. So did using copulins several times a day which led to higher baseline T… I would think celery in large quantity would also temporary raise the levels increasing hits because it contains the pheromones.
Blood Type: 0
These guys evolved from hunters and like hunters they are suitable for that task. Highly acidic stomach makes protein digestions EASY. Great for ketosis. People with such blood type can’t tolerate carbs, but have to eat meat in high quantity. It is the only blood type that allows easy digestion of red meat and other meats. Since in prehistoric times you had to have strength and ‘hunters built’ you probably carry such trait/genetics.
These guys strive on physical exercise and have to do it. They don’t overtrain easily, but once they pushed their body to extremes it takes longer to recover
Blood Type: A
These guys came from Agricultural society, when hunters became cultivators and farmers. They have low stomach acid which means that digestion of protein is HARD (and thus less protein gets to muscle? And more protein gets pooped out).
If you have Blood A, then you have higher cortisol in your body and are a walking muscle eater. Obviously that isnt so good for building muscle! You overtrain very easily but recover faster. Conditioned guy with Type A can compete with unconditioned blood type 0. But cannot do it very often.
Blood Type: B
People whose descendants are nomads.
They are similar to A except better digestion of protein and meat.
Blood Type AB:
Most recent and rarest and most UNKNOWN of blood types.
Mixture of A and B. Which means that you need to eat meat but it is hard to digest it. BUT you have high level of endurance and need to have physical exercise if it is coupled with mental aspect. Recovery/Overtraining is similiar to Blood Type 0.
Wow, super post.
I was watching that show “Life Below Zero” and it’s so coincidental that you write this, that I have to comment.
So, I just caught part of it.
The guy has shot a Moose and is field dressing it.
He pulls out some liver fat and is eating it raw.
He says the problem in the wild is you don’t have much greens, and eating all protein
will make you sick. So you need to add fat to your diet.
That post I tried to keep related to pheromones from the increase in testosterone levels tied to the ability to digest protein.
Those with higher testosterone should find they need less of the sexuals and status mones and more of the socials you apply. Those with lower testosterone, and especially if you have some fat, will find they need less of the socials and more of the sexual and status mones. This is the basics, as some pheromones have many other effects that can modify things even more. Certain mones could make you look more attractive, make others want to invade your personal space or more likely to touch, disinhibit them, form emotional connection/bonding, raise their mood, or even just make you more confident which might help the encounter as just a few examples…
Related to natural diet, a blood type O for example can’t tolerate carbs as well, but have to eat meat in high quantity. A blood type A naturally would do better with far less meat since they cant digest as well as another example. Knowing this however, these days supplements like Betaine HCL that increases the stomach acid allowing protein to be better digested is possible.
Quoting MHarris, who started the thread -
Erox filed one of the original patents on A-1.
They wrote in their patent filing:
Patent app US 5278141 A (1994)
That would be 700 nanograms and less than 1 picogram. 1 picogram equals .001 nanogram.
The patent was approved to Pherin a couple years later as US5883087.
It used the same quoted language but added -
This isn’t new information. People just forgot about it. Harris knew about it back when A1 was still under patent.
MH means to say 800 pmol (which is 0.800 nmol). This is the amount reported by Gower et al. MH is conflating the 2 since the 1996 approved patent doesn’t use nmol or pmol amounts.
700 nanograms is more than 800 pmol and more than reported by Gower. 700 seems small but it is far higher than Gower reported in sweat. 700 would be the high exteme of natural output for androstenes like A1.
By reading Xev’s posts I would say she probably had laboratory experience with scientific instruments.
Perhaps Androtics will carry through on their idea to close this forum to general audience.
My hope is that they would invite graduate students doing PhD work who have reviewed all of this old literature.
We need not spend ten more years debating how much of what pheromone signature various men and women produce. We’ve known the answers for over 20 years.
During intimate contact (sex), you’ll inhale less than 1 nanogram androstenone. Maybe you’re an outlier. Maybe you produce 10 times more than any other man in town. Then your partner would sniff less than 10 nano maximum.
The patent expired and Pherin science on the VNO was junk. Maybe the lab data on natural phero output was trash as well. If so it’s the greatest science hoax on the US Patent Office in many years.
I didn’t write the patent and I am not responsible for what it says. You should direct your complaint letters to the scientists in the patent documents.
Some confusion on math units and testosterone. Most pubs. use molar amounts, for example nmol or nanomoles. This quote is from a 2009 pub. that lays it all out. 1000 nanograms equal 1 microgram.
1000 picograms equal 1 nanogram.
Interesting. Dopamine, like norepinephrine, is a neurotransmitter in the brain that initiates adrenaline, a hormone, during the activation of the stress response. 
So that may indeed be the next link in the chain from post 53 and how it may all connect together…
And as mentioned I found some research with links to neurotransmitters and testosterone… It was previously just been my theories..
Testosterone Supplementation May Increase Serotonin Levels in the Brain | MD Magazine
—All of the related molecules are found on the skin at about 700 nanograms or less. Less than 10% of that becomes part of the natural mones signature. How much is your natural -enone sig.? Maybe 10 nanograms. Why? Sweat isn’t perfumer’s alcohol. Water and fats in sweat aren’t ideal for diffusion.
There should be a range of androstenone found based on varying natural levels, and the tolerance range of added enone without buffers seems to be up to around 15-20mcg. And of course we have what seems to be a thousand reports of men with higher testosterone needing far less or no androstenone and do better with socials, buffers, or things are balanced with more socials over sexuals, and those with lower testosterone needing far more androstenone or higher ratio of sexual over social. PrettyRickyBoi just tested for me as well, with being african american and gets intimidation naturally, using things like Ammo Summer Edition with its two extra buffers TAA and P130, and IG with no enone worked better, and things like tuth not so much… The low T guys who tested get beta’d with Ammo Summer because its further pushing down their levels and would need more enone added, but do great with things like Tuth…
Androstenone also sticks around, once its applied seems to go for a day or even possibly more.. So I wouldnt be suprised to find the natural levels may be as high as 10-20mcg in those with higher T, workout etc… Androstenol is found in fresh sweat and then converts, so your also likely adding more consistantly in a healthy person who sweats…A1 converts to Enone as well I read.
As far as A1, if 700ng is truly more the norm or even far less as shown, perhaps the fact we use 5-40mcg per dose and some use it all the time is another part of the reason for the issues some experience which I’ve posted about my thoughts elsewhere as to its effects.. Wonder if theres a safe dose without buffering it with mood lifters like dhea-s that never triggers depression or the change in scent to urinous but still gives the positive effects of the A1 say 1mcg or 700ng or 200ng… Dial Magnetic is low dose but you apply it all over and not in one spot like pheromones, and some people have had neg effects using 4 times a week. If its a serotonin drain as I theorized, then of course some with higher T or better nutrition to make it would have better tolerance, but it seems most everyone gets hit sooner or later even buffered at those 5-40 levels if used too often.
Not sure any info on natural diffusion to help but hair I remember increases the ability of molecules to get into the air, but cant find the info on that.
Exposed could include direct skin contact.
If less than 1 nanogram of androstenone makes it into the air (a human subject would inhale no more than .0007 nanograms), then 10 mcg (inhaled) would be more than 100 thousand times the estimated natural level.
No matter what amount of -enone or similar androstene steroid is present on the skin, less than 0.0001 percent vaporizes into the air.
The data above was reported by Pherin/Erox in their A1 patent 20 years ago.
Except that the vomeronasal organ is no longer important in human research.