The patent says estimated. It also assumed low volatility or ability to diffuse off the body such as via hair which could be completely off, otherwise externally we would be able to see similar effects at those very low doses especially with the added diffusion. From: Advances in Chemical Signals in Vertebrates as info to start, not sure if there is other studies out there more recent…
E3M2H I agree sounds interesting being in greater concentration, it would be interesting to see any effects on others tried solo, and contributes to the body odor.
As far as androstenone only, in further testing they may find a wide varying natural level if it really is a big natural contributor as opposed to other things. The contributing factors to the base natural level that I’d suggest to test are age (older vs younger) and by race. It also seems the levels correlate very well to testosterone levels and could be tested high vs low men to see for differences. There was also the knowledge that androstenol is produced with new fresh sweat and then converts to androstenone as well as Androstadienone converts to enone, and that androstenone stays around much longer once its there and definately accumulates in total when used externally, called ‘buildup’.
Black and Hispanic races seem to have a higher tolerance for androstenone from a younger age, likely from the equivalent male of that race outputting a naturally higher level. Asians/SE Asians seem to have lower tolerance for androstenone, likely from the equivalent male outputting a naturally lower level. Jdub with JustinTime469 also have thought this in their race journal.
Those who are younger seem to have lower tolerance for androstenone then as they age, such as over 30. The young also seem to favor beta (epi) androsterone, and then prefer more alpha androsterone as they are older.
Slight changes on a specific receptor gene in the olfactory system contribute to differences in the way people smell androstenone. The RT code has a stronger response and find it negative/urinous while people with the WM variant had a impaired lesser reaction to it and described it as more pleasant and floral. One reason why a future stealth scent version with added fragrance neutralizers would help someday when they have time to make and do testing.
During ovulation, a womens ability to smell androstenone and musk becomes stronger, and those who have a negative reaction find it more neutral during this time. Women prefer men who have higher androstenone during this period.
Dosing changes of androstenone changes the age and race of who responds, there seems to be a tolerance range that people best respond to based on the final amount. Keep in mind you have some in your base signature, plus what you are adding, plus any residual from prior applications earlier in the day or the day before. Adding nols or other social/buffers seem to lessen the androstenone the other way making it more appealing to those with lower tolerance. Asians/SE Asians prefer a higher Androsterone signature with lower androstenone.
Some use none, or 250ng to 2.5mcg and get good results, while others need 5-10 to see similar effects. 15-20 without buffers might be possible. Most blends I think now just have buffers that lower it back down, so when a blend has 20mcg per spray and use two sprays, if it also has buffers its not hitting like 40mcg.
Estrogen also might be good to test. It contributes to higher output of natural nols. Fat Guys = More friendly/less sexual… If the level of androstenone itself isnt highly variable, it may be the ratio of nols to the androstenone buffering it causing the differences.
In the study above that is nanograms per microliter of fresh aprocrine secretions. The secretions were induced by adrenaline injection. The highest amount produced by male subjects was 30 microliters.
Armpit odor is caused by hexanoic acids that are extememly powerful like copulins. Odorless precursors are carried in fresh apocrine by the apolipoprotein D carrier. Bacterial enzymes release the precursors. The contribution of -enone to body odor is negligible.
Book:
Pheromones and Animal Behavior: Chemical Signals and Signatures. Page 290.
*While I don’t know the future of Androtics or this board, my further paticipation, such as it is, will always be founded in the best facts I can find. Imperfect. That is all we have beyond guesses. My tests are to try to identify what molecules might work at approx. 500 mcg for poss use in A314 etc. Put some drops of pure -enone in cologne. I think it might do just as well in blind tests as any more complex mix. Some women love it, some will punch you. *
So here is the USA population blood types from the Red Cross. There is a large diversity of blood types for every race I see.
Do those of you with blood type O from any race even asian/se asians find the same issue with an easy OD on androstenone? And do you have lots of lean muscle rather then fat if you do?
I now also wonder if those of any race, and especially female Asians/SE Asians with type O blood are more tolerant of Androstenone or Asians/SE Asians with say type A as most japanese are apparently are the ones that are less tolerant… This may explain the variation in hits among races with such a large diversity and the 50% rate of O may explain some more of the african american/latino-american response to higher enone perhaps..
And if women with blood type O tend toward more alpha, or potentially a higher sex drive from increased testosterone etc…
This is due to certain blood types just having an easier genetic ability to digest protein which leads naturally to more muscle and ultimately higher testosterone. (See post #53).
As a side note I’ll add, I am still thinking it just comes down to our current testosterone levels however, our lean muscle vs fat, and how you come across to others such as intimidating/unapproachable or friendly/approachable rather then the blood type… I can imagine many type O’s still get fat from poor diet/exercise etc, have lower T levels sometimes as they age, or due to adrenal exhaustion from stressors the body would cannibalize proteins reducing muscle mass/T counteracting the genetics…This certainly shows it is more then just a person say african american is 100% always high enone with high T.
So here is the USA population blood types from the Red Cross. There is a large diversity of blood types for every race I see.
Do those of you with blood type O from any race even asian/se asians find the same issue with an easy OD on androstenone? And do you have lots of lean muscle rather then fat if you do? And anyone with a different blood type that also finds they OD easier?
I now also wonder if those of any race, and especially female Asians/SE Asians with type O blood are more tolerant of Androstenone or Asians/SE Asians with say type A as most japanese are apparently are the ones that are less tolerant… This may explain the variation in hits among races with such a large diversity and the 50% rate of O may explain some more of the african american/latino-american response to higher enone perhaps..
And if women with blood type O tend toward more alpha, or potentially a higher sex drive from increased testosterone etc…
Post your blood type and what you see…
This is due to certain blood types just having an easier genetic ability to digest protein which leads naturally to more muscle and ultimately higher testosterone. (See post #53).
As a side note I’ll add, I am still thinking it just comes down to our current testosterone levels outputting more pheromones however, our lean muscle vs fat, and how you come across to others such as intimidating/unapproachable or friendly/approachable rather then the blood type… I can imagine many type O’s still get fat from poor diet/exercise etc, have lower T levels sometimes as they age, or due to adrenal exhaustion from stressors the body would cannibalize proteins reducing muscle mass/T counteracting the genetics…This certainly shows it is more then just a person say african american is 100% always high enone with high T.
Androstadienone is the most prominent steroid present on male human axillary hair and on the male axillary skin surface, and in human male sweat. It is being studied ongoing by scientists as a putative pheromone. Some of the steroid levels in general are higher in sweat while some are higher on skin or hair. Skin Vs Sweat
This study showed effects on women with only 100 Picograms of Androstadienone! “We report that administration of this steroid under these conditions results in a significant reduction of nervousness, tension and other negative feeling states.” http://www.psyneuen-journal.com/article/S0306-4530(99)00056-6/pdf
We are clearly using too high a dose at 5-40mcg or more regularly, especially since we are using enhanced methods of diffusion that would bring much more of it to everyones nose. I am thinking 1 microgram or even 500 nanograms should be tested. LAL has a 2mg/10ml oil dose which is 4 microgram per drop maybe also as a starting point. Instant Female Magic it seemed had around 13 micrograms per spray or so.
