In my humble opinion, the A314 circa 2007 was its best version, atleast for me, and even that hasn’t been exceeded/bettered by any of the recent Alpha products by any company that I have tried. It was in a league of its own.
I like LAL products, for example Nude, SXD-9 are quite unique, but I have tried Wolf, and you can see that it is rough and it seems more like a dating oriented mix, and is very hit and miss to boot. I discussed this with Garry and he suggested that I return it, which I did.
Corporativo from AD is a poor fascimile of A314, and also far from refined, and it doesn’t bolster other products quite like A314 did. There is no solid, dependable man aura with it.
I surmise that making an Alpha product like A314 is not easy and even Androtics has sometimes faltered, especially in the recent versions. With the old versions it grounded every product and made the signal seem very real (if that makes sense), and enhanced every sexual and social mixes. It was an easy recommendation to make for anyone. I can’t recommend Wolf, Corporativo etc to anyone frankly.
Factors to think about. One of the pioneer chemists really did die in 2012. I will call him Dr. P. I have his obit. His peers called him pioneer.
P90 is expensive. Available but $$$.
Essential oils have to be tested for each batch. They consist of numerous chiral molecules. Each has to be identified. Neroli is still a complex substance, but has somewhat fewer chiral molecules. A single, synthetic fragrance is less complex.
Result: A formal molecule synthesis of one putative in neroli will produce very accurate results over years.
The economy is still nothing like 2007.
There are sometimes alternate techniques to make something besides the formal synthesis (chemical journal). Chemist can choose not to publish. His notes go with him if he quits or dies.
This guy invented modern steroid chemistry. He’s dead. His post-doc fellows/understudies ain’t young either:
If some dude cracks the code of a cheap P90 synthesis route, he may never publish. Maybe he decides to hand his notes down to continue work, in secret. Quinine is a bitch. But the techniques can be used to make mones.
I think they could make something close to the old 314, but the oil would cost $200. They could make a 5 mL spray as an MX, maybe $50?
All those old user mixes, the molecules are just too expensive. Even MX353 is too much.
For perspective, -enone for research in vet. colleges (pigs) is expensive. At the reporting user price, I’d say that loses money.
Imagine yourself in a lab trying to make a process for industrial quinine. How many reagents. They still have to use the natural product.
I don’t know why -enone costs so much. I suspect the starting material. And gas prices are still $3.50 USA, higher than 2004 era.
You can make nols from -enone. I think that partly explains why they cost so much.
Bottom line though, no company will not sell a product that they can if there is profit. If they could sell it at a profit, they would. I don’t think they can make the old versions anymore.
There was nothing wrong with the Pontiac car. Good cars. Mercury also. Just not enough profit. Maybe in future GM will make a GTO special edition/anniversary. They had to concentrate resources on cars that sold. That meant dumping the Mercury division of GM. No conspiracy. Economics.
I think it was the 11+ molecules version, but I am going off memory so may be wrong. But 2007 is the timeframe and I am sure Androtics has a record of that version.
You raise a very interesting point monesmadedoit, and I feel badly that I didn’t think of it.
My guess as to why the older versions are not available was that A314 has always been considered an evolving product . Its Androtics’ flagship product and the learning from any putatives or MXs eventually go into it if it is deemed to enhance the desired A314 message.
The formulator has, with each version, added more molecules, and we may be upto 20+ molecules at this point. I felt that the aura/final effect of the mix has gradually shifted to the point where it can’t be corrected by adding more molecules or by simply tuning the ratios.
I would think that some of these new additions simply have to be dumped and the formulation needs to be restarted from a point where it was almost universally loved (circa 2007). You provided a great alternate explanation though, and sadly if that is the case, an alternate solution (perhaps other molecules with a similar feel) will need to be found and I understand that can be really difficult and then challenging to integrate without a lot of experimental data.
Nbully, first of all thank you for your contribution. What makes the 2007 version so special, as in what did it give off that the current A314 is lacking at?
The simple answer is that the results were very apparent from day one with the old A314, even for someone that is usually clueless about social cues.
I was able to find many mixes that worked for me with A314 as the base. A314 by itself was dominant, but made you seem like a stable, dependable person, and you could easily add something to get the desired vibe, be it sexual, romantic, or pure social, and it made everything seem smoother.
An example, A314 + IS was the best workplace vibe and it worked everytime and was very noticeable in terms of respect and mood-lift effects. I feel that A314 highlighted and anchored the mood-lift that Shine gave off. Without A314, IS would lead to meandering daydreaming thoughts with no anchor for your happiness.
Another factor that’s hard to describe is that some of the social and sexual products create an effect that’s totally unnatural (probably because those mones do not exist naturally in those proportions on any human), and people either check their reactions before it happens because they don’t know where those feelings are coming from, or are much more guarded the next time they encounter you with that signature. But good A314 versions would make those reactions and feelings appear natural, so you will see more effects being displayed.
More recent A314 versions seems to want to function more as a standalone, and my old mixes don’t work the same way with it. When used by itself sometimes its irritable (kind of P83 vibe), sometimes it feels like you are reaching to be someone you are not, and many times it sits in the background doing nothing. Basically it has become slightly unbalanced and unnatural, is the best way I can put it. This was not a problem back then with the old A314 versions.
I have posted numerous times about A314 here and on my blog so you can get some idea from those posts too. Hope that helps.
please tell about the contents of the product p74 , p79 , p83 ,insta shine,insta honesty, tac and also the contents of the other androtics product and best combinations
Thank You
sir,i have primal instinct,chikara cologne,npa,alpha 7,scent of eros,
and i am from india.what products i can buy from androtics site for the best mix with the aboce.please tell me best combinations of above product.i am an indian male and want for female sexual attraction for love and lust.
I have read a314 plus p74 and insta honesty makes indian girls fall.so can i buy these and also please tel me androtics products combination with products what i have and also tel androtics to androtics combination too for my purpose.
Thank You
Girls in india have more ego and have resistance in controlling their sexual arousal and wont fall even if they like to have sex.can you please tell me best products which make them to overcome the restrictions i.e. which makes them to loose the grip they hold?Please tell in brief
please tell about the contents of the product p74 , p79 , p83 ,insta shine,insta honesty, tac and also the contents of the other androtics product and best combinations
Thank You
Thanks for the link. I remember the post by Michael vividly and his behind-the-scenes explanation made me appreciate being a customer here that much more. I would like to see him posting here again.
I seem to get the sense from your posts monesmadedoit, that the older versions cannot be recreated because some of the molecules in the older versions are not available anymore or are cost prohibitive. Am I understanding correctly?
I wonder if you had tried the LS A314 version. It was quite something even if it was made of non-US produced mones, they had done a mighty fan job with it, and it fit the A314 description on the product page to a tee.
I remember that I routinely used LS A314 version at 1 drop for attraction in social situations, and 2 drops when seeking respect in workplace environment. I had discussed this with Jasmin too who was surprised that I was seeing attraction type reactions from A314, which she felt was somewhat uncommon.
The romantic version that was available at Androtics was no slouch either but I would have used 2 drops of that for similar impact to the LS version.
I wonder if it is possible for Androtics to again sell a “mutant” version of A314 based on the formula and ingredients used for the LS A314 version here using chemicals sourced from China just like it was before but warn the users of that. Atleast users will have a choice. I would jump on that right away as I am sure many old timers will too.
There was a mutant version of A314 sold here (Mutent A314?), that had some mistake in the formulation and it was sold cheaply because of that . But effects wise it was pretty strong and behaved more like LS A314 version. Can that mistake be reproduced?
For example, I feel that AMMO benefits from a coarse synthesis of -enone. It isn’t the same as ExperiMone or TUTH. So, to formulate new A314’s, that would be by spray. They might have stocks of -erone from different split tests. If it uses a published but non-analytical-standard synthesis (an alternative to formal/lengthy), then the supplies might be stable. If you want coarse, the chemist has to be personally experienced in the “one-pot-type” process and be able to supply it. Consider the P88/P93 dilemma.
Below are two synthesis paths for ibuprofen. You see that one won a chemistry prize in 1997.
The challenges Androtics has experienced with aging and dying chemists are not mythical. For example, I an looking at Pub Med abstracts. One of the top men, who died in 2012, has over 100 co-authored abstracts! How many academics have 100 published papers in a CV? Now that guy, he will probably have an endowed chair or ACS scholarship named after him.
So, it takes years of study to master orbital theory and be able to go into the lab and “cook” a new pheromone recipe, based upon Woodward rules and so on.
So, in my experiments, a conjecture that photochemistry is a much bigger factor than bacteria in pheromone usage. If someone here has a good foundation in that, we might just be able to start a minor revolution on phero boards.
The ultimate point is that standard synthesis is expensive but always consistent. The Experimone used in medical research. The statistical results tables will be the same and can be reproduced. So, previous formulas can be restocked using analytical standard molecules. But if the supply chain for old stuff is gone or cost prohibitive, it’s gone.
I would be in favor of reviving MX347 experiments. What needs to happen is for people to wear A314B and pair it with just 1 mcg of 1 single molecule. Matrix testing.
314 + P75
314 + P83
etc, etc
1 mcg of putative, in neroli. 1 putative only. If it enhances 314, make it an MX. Mathematically, it takes many man-hours. 10 putatives chosen at random each at 12.5 mcg in a mix of 3 yields 1000 permutations.
After the comments I read from 2000GT last week directed at Nick and other staff here…honestly…if I were Harris, I wouldn’t want to climb into the gutter of “Pheromone Community” sewage either.
So as not to libel anyone, I can only say there are unspecified people/vendors “in the community” who think they are being clever and that everyone is a dupe. I got my eye on 'em. I ain’t fooled.
I think the supplier of chem set labs to Love-Scent is/was Stone Labs, and there was some controversy back then about them falsifying their COA. I don’t recall the details, but most pheromone vendors wouldn’t speak against them. Even JV Kohl’s SOE is manufactured using Stone Labs supplied mones if I recall correctly. And he is one of the premier scientists in the field and someone I hold in high esteem (never mind his recent affiliation with Luv Essentials).
It has become widely known now that this business attracts some shady people, who are simply out to make a quick buck by exploting people (many a times people who happen to be at a bad place in their lives and are seeking some sort of help to boost their self-confidence).
So, where do things stand now? Are the molecules that Androtics needs to make a good version of A314 just not available at the purity that they desire, and at the cost that would make them feasible to bring to the market? The experimones and putatives section is pretty well stocked now. So what may be lacking is good data plus it may be cost prohibitive to bring them in a consumer product like A314, as test molecules are sold at a discount.
Michael suspected that Dr. Dodd’s products (my two favorites, Pherofragrance and xcite wipes, both gone for good) had probably 40-50 pheromone molecules. Was he synthesizing them in his own labs, or did he have a reliable source? Anyway its pretty telling that someone like him got completely out of the pheromone business, although he is still pretty active in perfumery.
Where does Lacroy gets its pheromones from? They have only a handful and probably make it themselves but I know Michael always had high praise for them and they do seem to have something unique in NPA/TE.
I think this explains what many have reported about how 314 B is less commanding, more lady friendly. I will get back to you, nbully, after I have studied this some. I think maybe they could revive the experimental MX’s used to develop 314 spray. There is just no universal decision on what “good” 314 is. Most agree B is the more charming. But some people liked LS’s crude version.
Testing combinations of 40-50 pheromones (out of a pool of how many?) would require more than the population of earth, testing a different combo each day of their life. It would exceed the capacity of a galaxy of Sol-like star systems each with a fully populated Earth. Indeed, such a galaxy might not be enough to MAKE all the combos, much less cover all plausible ratios/doses. It’s an exponential thing.
The only plausible way to get a 40-50 P mix is to start with crude mixes, probably natural extracts (for both cost and regulatory reasons). Each extract might have several putatives but would only be one reagent as far as mixing is concerned. Even so, a “candidate pool” of ten extracts with 8 allowed levels of each (say, 0 or 1/8x to 8x, in ratios of 2, where 1x is our best guess at a reasonable amount for that ingredient) would be a “dose combination universe” of over a billion possibilities. Reasonable field tests of even 100 of those mixes would take many man-years
There couldn’t possibly have been any real optimization. It would have been ‘expert guesses’ and a limited number of test combos. Please don’t think that combinations of 40-50 “pheros” are needed or desirable. There may not be 50 effective pheros in the entire human range. Any mix like that would be like inhaling in a sweaty nightclub–does that turn you on? Only a few in that mix might have any significant effect, the rest is noise.
Don’t get me wrong: it’s a time-tested perfumier method, and a reasonable way to navigate the universe of possibilities in our current state-of-art – but that 40-50 Ps reflects our current ignorance/limitations and economics, not some pinnacle of knowledge/performance
Oh, I just found the post of Michael that I was referencing. I should’ve tried to search first before shooting off my mouth.
So, apparently Dr. Dodd may have researched around 50 molecules, yet used “only” about 20 of them.
Here is the post from Michael:
Still, that’s a large number, even though A314 probably also has around the same number. Androstenol probably plays a central role in his products. Dr. Dodd also published on Androstanone long time ago . I wonder if he included that in his products too.
What I find pretty unique about Pherofragrance and xcite wipes, was the jittery feeling I got if I overdosed a little, and the fact that when combined with A314, it really enhanced the A314 message, while coming into its own quite well.
A strange phenomena was infants locking into me, and won’t stop looking at me, much to the amusement of their parents. What was this about? I thought this was a combination of the fact that infants haven’t developed any social filters, plus, they are probably sniffing the scent that comes from symmetrical attractive faces. Ofcourse this also translated to great reactions from adults too.
Sadly both PF and xcite wipes are not as effective on their own atleast for me, and A314 made it come alive, which brings us to the topic at hand.
I’ve been getting very good results from rev 32, ammo, and p83. P83 seems to be a kino-inducing effect. Rev 31 was crap, but I couldn’t figure out why it was working so in effectively until I came back here and saw that everyone else was having problems with it too.
