I’m not sure, Lor. The only thing I get with EST is an incredibly heightened sense of smell for my husband’s unique pheromone signature and an attraction to that. Xiphoid would be the one who is more knowledgeable about brain chemistry. I’m just familiar with a couple of the dopamine receptors, a couple of the Serotonin receptors and a bit about the norepinephrine/epinephrine receptors… nothing detailed.
Does melatonin cause more vivid and increased dreaming? I thought it induced deep sleep.
im not sure if melatonin affects dreaming, i know there was speculation that minute amounts of DMT might.
i believe it was someone actually studying seratonin that thinks this.
Well, there is 23.8 mcg per drop total pheromones according to the Androtics website, and I seem to recall that there is supposed to be approximately 80% -Rone. Gives us 19 mcg per drop of -Rone.
But it’s also more slowly diffused, so a direct comparison can’t be easily made with the alcohol IG.
Sorry, I have no experience with either TAH or EST - However a quick thought.
However I do know that if we look at world religions - spirituality and sexuality are oftentimes placed on opposite ends of the spectrum.
It’s super common to see abstinence among the super-devote (priests,monks,etc) or as a method of bringing one closer to his/her god.
Karma Sutra is the only “major” spiritual movement that I can think of that doesn’t place sexuality and spirituality as opposites on some sort of cosmic scale. However, instead they are considered as being one and the same.
It’s my personal belief that when you see archetypes like this it isn’t just a coincidence. Generally I would argue that the basis of most (if not all) human cultural archetypes have some biological or evolutionary basis.
I.E. I conducted an interesting survey a couple years ago where we asked people if they wore “bright green shirts like the one I had one on a regular basis” - we then asked them if they were to rate their attractiveness on a scale of 1 to 10 where they would place. I also had a panel of 3 people rate the attractiveness (secretly) of everybody I talked to.
My hypothesis was that people who thought they were attractive would be more inclined to wear bright green on a regular basis - bright green is the natural color which the human eye sees most easily, subconsciously we would know that and therefore if we thought we were highly attractive (high self-confidence) we would wear bright green more often (because we want people to notice us).
My sample size wasn’t HUGE, but based on a sample of about 150 people who were at a mall on a Saturday Afternoon, not corrected for age or anything else, the data correlated in the following manner: People who rated themselves higher on the attractiveness scale were more likely to wear green then people who rated themselves lower (it was nearly linear with their rating of themselves). Also people whom my panel judged more attractive were also the most likely to wear bright green. Finally the greater the divide between where someone rated themselves and my panel rated them the more they swung the likelyhood of them wearing green (if someone rated themselves much higher than the panel they further increased their likelyhood of wearing green, irregardless of their “absoute attractiveness”
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Point of segway - Biological fact (human eye finds bright green more quickly than any other color) produces a cultural archetype (people who are/think they are more attractive are more likely to wear bright green)
I think the fact that religion links spirituality and sexuality so strongly (as either opposites or compliments) indicates that there is some biological basis for assuming they are connected.
High doses of melatonin (+50mg’s) can cause extremely vivid dreams. If you think that MEO-EST is effecting your melatonin, dose yourself up (high) with it about 1.5 hours - 1 hour before your bedtime. See what happens; chart it over a week.
Melatonin is also being investigated in treatments with fertility, specifically as it dramatically increases the gonadotropin levels. Long (chemical) story short, it tells the gonads (in both sexes) to increase testosterone/estradiol. Possibly why MEO-EST is Happy Sauce for us women?? Also, another gonadotropin is hCG - produced during pregnancy. Possibly why it’s calming for men??
Melatonin is very high in children. They’re swimming in it, actually. Then, it decreases as a function of puberty.
Now, DMT…
Psychedelic drug, very potent, produced in minute quantities in the body, for a basically unknown reason.
Some psychoactive drugs, specifically psychedelic drugs, can cause increases in melatonin synthesis. They dont make you drowsy, but perhaps this increased synthesis in a waking state is a contributing factor to altered states of consciousness and reality.
“Psychedelic” comes from greek - Psyche = soul, delos = manifest. To make the soul manifest. Whether its an internal manifestation, ie, bringing forth an internal part of yourself that is kept away, or an external manifestation, ie, experiencing reality and/or consciousness in a fundamentally different way, I know not. Here’s what others have to say on the topic:
It’s intense. I mean it. It fundamentally shifts reality. You wont be you. You wont be on Earth.
What does that mean spiritually? To each his own interpretation, I suppose. There are organic ways to acquire/increase DMT production/experiences.
There is a very interesting community online that believes that Schizophrenia, or any reality fracturing event is actually a spiritually initiating process of shamanism, or a biological introduction to another spiritual realm/altered level of consciousness. Breaking Open the Head and also the What is Shamanism clicky as well. There are some odd, odd things there, but this post on the forum was intriguing to me: Shamanism, Schizophrenia, Psychosis & Spiritual Emergency - Breaking Open The Head
I’m sort of wondering why you are interested in increasing the levels of it…
I am actually very very interested in Diane’s recent post about some of these causing a neurotransmitter cascade, and thus effecting a real, lasting (though not permanent) change on our minds/perceptions. If we are experiencing a neurotransmitter cascade with H and EST (of which I have definitely felt lasting effects with H), then we are also perceiving our realities in a fundamentally different way, for the time we are effected. It’s a different “fundamentally different way” than say, a psychedelic drug induced reality shift, but a “reality” shift nonetheless. Can that not cause an “enlightened” feeling?
I feel great when I wear H. I feel like I am connected to the world, in love with all things, warm and soft, and cradled from the inside out. Lor’s description of “falling in love with the world” is apropos. I don’t normally have warm, content, utterly satisfied feelings toward life as my base emotional paradigm (though I have a few days…). As such, that is a different perception of the world/reality for me. That is enlightening to me.
Whereas, wearing Alpha Nol, or TAA, or P74… that’s not reality shifting for me. Those are more augmentations. I can feel TAA’s effect as a “booster:” A shot of Happy, but not a fundamental shift towards the Happy. P74 effects towards bonding, friendship, contented cool and fun, but it does not change me into a fundamentally connected with everyone, totally loving, awesomely bonded person. It’s a directed effect, worn to draw others in - not change the world.
i am not a fan of taking syntheticaly produced drugs, but i also see the advantage in doing so. same with pheromones.
i am genuinely not interested in taking DMT myself, but i have to tell you,
i am VERY VERY interested in others taking it, and what they have to say.
i know what my set point is as far as my own waking perception of the world, and i know that using certain pheromones, eating certain foods, and changing lifestyle also contribute to changing shifts in perception.
i am obsessed with this.
i am not a believer that DMT prduces a trip, but a change in perception so vast that nothing here matters.
its like the house you live in being too chilly, but the you are taken to another planet and could care less in that moment about a room that needs to be a few degrees warmer.
i think there might be a domino affect (everything being connected) and that our DMT if produced in the pineal, may be synthesized either more slowly (so that we experience it) or not “cleaned up” in the pineal fluid before it has a chance to affect us in any way.
remember, DMT is only trippy in large amounts.
in much smaller amounts there is still a sense of well being, you just dont get “high”.
im not trying to make sense,
im only going on intuition and that there seems to be a feeling within that good feelings are what we are supposed to feel more of the time,
and that we prevent with lifestyle what may be totally normal for people back in the days of regular “miracles” “prophets” and people who have seen angels.
Mostly, I think you are correct about religions and sexuality. But there are exceptions. Buddhism, which is an offshoot of Indian Tantra Yoga, doesn’t polarize sexuality and religion. It uses sexual energy through abstinence to propel spiritual growth. Kaula Tantra Yoga uses sexual practice, in context, to propel spiritual growth. What both these paths require is mastery of the sexual energies. What they don’t require is dogmatic adherence to a set of rules.
But religion and spriritual practice are often two different things. Most religions require a lack of spiritual understanding and simple obedience.
You can find rare examples of sexual/spiritual states being attained even within traditional religions, however. One such was the Carmelite nun, Sister Theresa of Avila, who through spiritual meditation attained states of divine ecstacy. Reading her journals, one can’t help but feel the intense flow of sexual expression inherent in these states of divine ecstacy.
BTW, the Kama Sutra is a pillow book, not a religious or spiritual movement. Kama means love, and Sutra means book. It is more of a sexual manual, not a religious treatise or a spiritual practice. It is often confused with tantra yoga, but has nothing in common with it.
You can find tons of information on kaula tantra, but unless you have the keys for understanding the language, they don’t make much sense. Most of the ancient manuscripts are written in a codified, “twighlight” language which bears multiple layers of meaning. This was done to keep the uninitiated from gaining or stealing the practices from those who were teaching. Many, many offshoots of kaula tantra were based on faulty understanding of these texts because of a lack of understanding. Most tantra yoga taught in the US today is totally in error.
One of the very best books I’ve ever found for Kaula Tantra is The Triadic Heart of Siva: Kaula Tantricism of Abhinavagupta in the Non-Dual Shaivism of Kashmir (Suny Series, Shaiva Traditions of Kashmir) by Paul Eduardo Muller-Ortega.
I think you are on to something profound here, Lor.
Just think what the world would be like if people stopped blaming others for their angst, and punishing them for it…
If everyone felt good, felt good about who they are, and where they are, there would be no child abuse, no spouse abuse, no death-dealing rampages, no murders, no wars…
If everyone felt good and we could all cooperate instead of constantly fighting for top dog position, just think of all that could be accomplished, even on a mundane level…
If we all felt good, and spent all that wasted hostile energy on other things, there is no telling where we would end up…
I had a really profound experience when I was in my early twenties, what you would call a samadhi experience, that is hard to put into words. I’ve talked to Dr. Fred Alan Wolfe (a theoretical physicist) about it. And he thought that I might have tapped into a pure quantum level of perception. He’s written a couple of books about the possibility, which are out of print at the moment, unfortunately. I think if we have the leisure from not worrying so much about so much little stressful stuff, we’d be more able to devote time and energy to expanding our consciousness, in many different ways.
Personally, I find that Androsterone, Meo-Est, and TAF all have these qualities with me, of expanding my awareness to be more all inclusive. Especially with Androsterone, but also the others to a lesser degree, I get an awareness of the flow of energy fields around the people I’m around. Without these pheromones, I’ve only experienced these through hours of meditational practice.
Totally. I know that EST has long term effect as well. I recently went on a total pheromone vacation. It took several weeks for the effects of the EST to wear off of my husband. As soon as I started using it again, he was totally EST-like again. I am not sure if it was a fundamental change or if he just got used to behaving in an EST-like manner from all the EST I’d worn for months. Bottom line, though, was that his behavior was EST-like for the several weeks I was EST free.
And for men, EST is one of those deeply bonding/connecting molecules. I feel the same way about Androsterone. It’s my new baby, and I’m planning on some testing with it soon… As soon as I can grind out a chunk of time.
Lor, off topic… I have your P96 set aside. I didn’t want you to think I missed your post.
I can go over with you how to set up a basic dilution calculator. If you have a spreadsheet, you can set it up to be automatic, so all you have to do is plug and chug.
I guess I can add another note to this conversation - DMT and myself have never met, however I hear that it’s legal cousin Salvia (at least Salvia is legal in Canada) are quite similar.
I’ve only tried it a couple times, with friends whom I trusted implicitly (I acquired the herb from a local herb shop which has a good reputation for sourcing everything they sell from good suppliers)
Anyways… the experience is quite unlike anything I can describe… it’s intense and can be a little bit scary.
That being said, on both occasions I tried it I experienced a deep sense of calmness and inner clarity after the drug wore off (Salvia lasts about 15 minutes when smoked)
The best way I can describe the calmness afterwards was almost like a deep internal catharsis. The high unleashed all these demons and subconscious thoughts in my head putting me through a rollercoaster of intense emotions… afterwards I felt a little drained, but the good kind of drained (equivalent to the dranied feeling after a really good work-out).
If you have someone that you trust to experience it with it is actually quite fufilling.
I don’t know if Salvia is legal in the US
It’s a state by state thing here in the US. (Sorry Lor, your state banned it.)
However, it effects the brain in an entirely different way than DMT. Salvia works on the Kappa 1 opioid receptor. It’s a 2nd or third generation cousin… not totally similar though.
Sounds like you had a good time though. The bio-chemistry of it actually suggest a pretty negative trip for most people, most of the time.
Butofenine, another DMT relative, is found in increased levels in Schizophrenics.
I am very, very interested in the brains potential to tap into other levels of consciousness/reality/existence. Unfortunately, in my field, I am somewhat outnumbered & outmaneuvered in terms of my interests… Discussing this with you guys is pretty awesome. I’m soaking up your knowledge and adding books to my amazon book cart as we speak…
well i havent done DMT or salvia,
but i have done plenty of LSD.
the reason DMT was even looked into was for the medical purposes of clearing/comforting the psyche with therepy.
it makes sense that you connect salvia in the way you have.
people that have done DMT say that salvia and LSD are like fingerpaints to kindergarteners.
DMT isnt like anything they can compare it to, unless your in the amazon and get the real deal.
they mix 2 plants together to make the DMT in one plant acceptable to the body by ingestion.
this is why i have no desire to even try anything else.
there are ways to encourage the bodies production of natural DMT.
this is what i am most interested in
Hmm… there are lots of theories and “stuffage” out there purported to do that, to a point…
HOWEVER, if your theory of MeoEst increasing melatonin, and thus providing a pathway for MAOI’s to deliver the increased DMT thru the blood-brain barrier… hmmm…
Perhaps intense meditation plus medicating w/ Meo to try to observe an effect?
Diane might know/theorize more regarding energy manipulation and attempts to control your bodies productions of “things.”
Chantix works by binding to and blocking the receptor for nicotine for 24 hours. Nicotine only binds to the receptor for 20 minutes and activates the receptor, giving a rush of pleasure and making the person feel good.
Chantix blocks the receptor without activating it.
Since this receptor is involved in making you feel good about yourself, and it is involved in feeling pleasure and responding to endorphins, when this is blocked for 24 hours at a time, or for months if you are on Chantix daily (or using Salvia Divinorum daily) you can feel none of the self pleasure involved in feeling good. This can lead to sudden and unexpected suicide behavior or rages, or intense depression.
you can find hundreds of testimonies about the truly scary nature of this drug.
Funny that now that Salvia is so popular you can’t find much of the science behind it on the net. 4 years ago you could. All that changed with the pharmaceutical industry getting involved in developing this for treatment of nicotine dependence. Four years ago you could find a lot of warnings about Salvia use, by users, talking about how important it is to have a minder when smoking it, and being very cautious about the amount smoked.
