I’m so suspicious and paranoid about the pharmaceutical industry anyway… this is no surprise. 
Par for the course, really.
On an aside, what if someone smokes nicotine and doesn’t get a pleasure rush?
I’m not sure, except that it is a habituated response. With nicotine addiction, the nicotine slowly takes over as the main neurotransmitter at the receptor site. Since nicotine is not produced in the brain, it must be supplied from outside. That is the addiction. The same thing happens with morphine and heroine addiction, except that it is more rapid and more profound.
Diane
Diane - I should note that I’ve never been a “regular” user of Salvia and I had “minders” (I.E. friends I trust implicitly and who knew not to play mind-fuck games with me while I was high) during the experience.
I have no clue what happens with regular use - my own experience was as I said intense and somewhat cathartic - I could easily see the high becoming scary, especially if it had become any more intense. As far as rage and depression, I never felt either… but as I said I felt somewhat emotionally drained. When I tried Salvia it was during a period where I was feeling very strong mentally (very happy, all the time).
I could see someone who was not in such a good place having a much more negative experience… I was also pretty anti-social (contemplative actually) for the rest of the evening… I could see regular use causing depression (simply because I can’t see ever wanting to go out after a Salvia session… you just want to sit and reflect afterwards.)
I probably have a minor case of ADD… perhaps my own personal experience is coloured by any differences that might cause.
(I say probably because everytime I see the symptom list for Adult ADD I have every single symptom to some varying degree EXCEPT mood swings… I also had all of the symptoms as a kid but since I “got” everything teachers just assumed I was bored)
i basically stay in my journal now,
as this is some of the best conversation ever for me.
i have looked into effects from so many kinds of chemicals and natural applications but so far the only one that stands out enough to cause an atheist to believe theres a God is the DMT, lol.
again,
id have to try it myself to find anything conclusive,
and i am NOT in a rush to do that.
i do not flatter myself to think i am stable enough to handle not being in control for 30 minutes.
they say fight-or-flight sets in imediately for even veteran users every-time, no exception.
i get fight-or-flight if i visit starbucks more than 3 times a day 
wore 40 mu of TAH last night
and noticed i was being told to do things, as opposed to asked.
same people, same atmosphere, same everything except in a male-dominated workplace/subject , i was not considered anything,period.
TAH is the ultimate female-mone,
to the extent of making you invisible
IF
the subject matter in the eyes of the males around you is not considered
female-oriented.
i had people come in and
go out of their way
to order with my male fellow employee, who is not a bartender,
while i stood in front of them asking for their order.
i put aside a beer we only had one of so that i could purchase it myself.
they commented to me that i had chosen well and that they would have done the same.
i decided right there that while i was appreciative of there approval ()
that TAH was beneficial in the way that
it pronounces male ignorance
(as i assume there are mones that do the same for women)
and can be worked-with if this is something that lends itself to the situation.
i definately want to wear this to the “other” bar and be
“too pretty to play darts”.
for money,of course.
i applied MX300 in 2 sprays to wrist afterwards,
and the manners re-appeared.
suddenly orders were asked, and there were even thank-yous thrown in.
i hate that TAH has to be banned from my workplace.
I got very interested in plant use for shamanic journeys a few years back, and that is when I really dug into Salvia. According to what I read, there really was no predisposing factors in people who had a very bad trips, except dosage. At that cutoff high dose, people totally lost consciousness. During that time they went into rages or tried to destroy themselves, destroyed their apartments, their friends apartments, and attacked people. I saw videos and photos and read a ton on the research of the guy who now is behind Chantix. At least 1 minder is a must, and he/she should be much stronger than you. If I were ever to try this I’d want three.
For shamanic journeys, a much friendlier plant, but way more illegal, is peyote. Except, it is legal here: The Peyote Way Church of God » Overview & News
I never did end up going on my spirit walk, but I did stop in and meet these people, and spent the day with them. It was an awesome, yet sad experience. Peyote is on the International Cites list of endangered species. Yet it is wiped out here in the US, except for on the property of the link above. In Europe it is grown hydroponically, but we can’t even transplant it back to its native habitat in the SW US. I can tell you from experience that you don’t need to ingest Peyote to know it. It talks to you in benign and loving energy waves. It is no wonder to me that the Native American shamans knew to use this plant.
Whereas Salvia Divinorum users have reported cold and alien spirits when using the drug for Shamanic purposes, you will never hear that kind of report from Peyote. Peyote is benign.
Diane
I just love reading your reports, Lor. I may just stay here, too… L0L. 
You are so on the money about everything.
Diane
DMT is good. It is the 5-OH-DMT that is also in Salvia that is BAD, BAD, BAD. It has been positively associated as a naturally occuring metabolite in people with autism, in people with severe psychiatric disorders, and in extremely violent offenders who are all drug free.
DMT is one of those things we make that works in small areas of the brain in bursts. It is probably associated with spiritual and religious experience, creativity, and visions.
If you ever do decide to take the plunge with DMT, just be sure someone is there with you to hold the floor down and keep the world stable till you come back.
Diane
Ugh! I’ve been up all night looking for a couple of pieces of specialty glassware online. The day is now half gone. If none of those last couple of posts makes any sense, it is because my brain is a pile of smoldering ash at the moment. Gonna go crash. I love you gals (n guys), just wanted to throw that little bit of exhausted appreciation in there. Cio.
Diane
Heh yeh my minders were both 6-7 inches taller and about 70-90 lbs heavier than I
We were also REALLY careful on dosage (used an electronic scale, cleaned out the pipe between people,etc)
Apparently I must spread the love around before repping Lor some more. So if that doesn’t tell you anything, I really like your posts.
i have had some interesting experiences in my younger days,
things that i still have trouble wrapping my head around.
its because of those things
that i cannot help
remaining unsatisfied
with the explanations “authorities” give
for the way things are and how things should be.
i dont believe (but never say never) i am even close to taking DMT.
it does explain some things for me,however,
considering we make it naturally
and i have to say,
users decribe some of my experiences uncannily.
i would love to hear about some of your experiences,Diane.
i think in the right company,
i would have experimented more with psychedelics.
i would have experimented more with intent,
and less leisure.
i think the closest i came to a mystical experience with intent
was when i was in sweat-lodge
and walked away from it feeling disconnected from my body
but seriously more high than ever.
So… what do we think it does?
Salvia and DMT? I realize that brilliant people write books and thesis and get massive research studies funded for the express purpose of trying ton\ answer that very question, but … we can ask it too, right?
Why do people report seeing the same or similar things? Lizard people? What/who are they? Is there a “place,” tangible or interspatial (or vibrational) that “we” go to? (and what are “we?”) Which place is reality?
As Lor said earlier, in the “olden days” were people more tapped into the “other” because they weren’t as distracted with the world, and could “use” their DMT more?
What about those with chemical imbalances, like schizophrenics, psychopaths, autistics, etc, who have these specific chemicals out of whack? What reality are they operating on?
Lor, I love your journal too. I love it here. It’s my fav place to be in this here forum. Diane, you don’t have a journal with all your collected reports, do you? 
Philosophy makes my head explode, Tigerlilly! I once had to write a tight, 1/2 page argument on “Who it is that Knows”. Answer that one for me and I’ll try to wrap my head around your questions. I came to the conclusion, after hours of contemplation, that there is no way to know oneself.
Uh… no… I don’t have a journal. I started one and then decided to just report to the main forum. I’d rather hang out in Lor’s.
Diane
Totally.
Thats really incredible.
So, does that play into your theory of neurotransmitter cascades? If so, are these cascades long lasting?
Or, is it the behaving in an EST manner?
When did he “snap” back to non-EST mode? And was it a snap, or a gradual lessening of EST behavior?
Verry verrry interesting!
I am still trying to figure out why my behavior changes so markedly with TAH, and why it takes so long after application to realllly notice it. Your mention of cascades has been the most interesting possible explanation thus far… and fits with it being long lasting, effects wise. However, Lor says she still smells it hours and hours after application, so… ?
Can’t wait to hear your reports on Androsterone.
Hmmm… 
I’d probably run through a Descartes-esque reduction to “I am the one that knows…”
BUT
I can only know my existence. Everything else is un-know-able, as existential truth.
Except me.
Then, of course… what is me?
BTW … is it just me, or is the main forum… kinda bleh right now? SO much happier up in here!
It is the “what is me?” question that is so hard to answer. Try to define yourself and your definitions become part of you. Define the new you. Ditto. It is never ending. You have to see something in it’s entirety to really know it. You can never get outside yourself to see yourself entirely. You know “how” to be you – but not “what” you are. All you end up doing is expanding what you are in the attempt to define yourself. Go too far and you explode… … or become part of a greater whole…
Yeah, we are kinda the spice rack up here in Lor’s journal, ain’t we?
Diane
It was a snap. One minute he was fine, the next disrespectful and treating me like I was low value, and he didn’t have time for me. In a blink of an eye I had gone from valued to merely an irritant.
I grabbed the EST and within 15 minutes he was apologetic and treating me well again. His whole focus changed. It was amazing. I’m now testing to see what intermittent dosage works to keep me in that value groove. Right now I’m wearing it 2-3 times a week at 100.0 mcg dosage on the days I’m wearing it. I’m staying pheromone free on the days in between.
Diane
Wow. 
wow Diane, i havent quite elicited effects like that from my SO,
but we have some pretty big issues to deal with so
i guess i was hoping EST would offer us some fresh air to remind each other what we’re working towards.
so far, EST is perfect for everything else,so i will continue to use it.
Tigerlily,
in re: to
so far with what i have read,
i resonate very closely with Rick Strassman when he is trying to understand why several of his subjects see similar characters-
with similar intent toward the subject
(which in-of-itself is way spookier than common visions)
Rick mentions that they all feel like they are operating in dimentions parrallel ours,
experiencing things they couldnt make-up if they wanted to,
and that these dimentions
rather than pick-up where the subject left-off,
seem to continue from where they are now,in the experience.
as if
time elapsed
and stuff has happened in-between
and they are now seeing where they are in the adventure.
if any of this is interesting, i highly reccomend DMT- the Spirit Molecule
i have read studies,
but his in print seems to have alot more credence than some of the stuff i read that didnt have double-blind and a thought-out filtering system for tolerance of the drug before-hand.
apparently,
all of the subjects experienced “other” people/entities present.
some had warm feeling towards the subjects, others seem to have no feelings either-way towards the subjects.
these were the majority.
its usually these specific experiences that have the “alien” or “insect” image attached to them.
i am only on page 206 of a 345 page book,LOL.
the connection i find in pheromones,
is that
having had experiences that have left impressions,
some i do not ordinarily recall unless there is something which smells like the memory of them.
this is what some pheromones do.
i am sure that
specific piecing together of words could trigger memories,
but not the ordinary way we put sentences together.
too limited.
wow, i could go on forever.
its saturday morning and i have to shower
yesterdays river-canoe adventure off me.
i think i have a bug in my hair 