well, agressor to me means they have no problem initiating,
i dont have alot of experience here with DIFFERENT men and their lovemaking style, only the initiating part and what i have gathered from the forum years ago.
(before gals started assuming that the pheromones behaved the same for everyone and started having the same experiences…)
your input (since you and Diane dont piggy-back on everyone elses experience ) just confirms for everyone else on the board that one size (dose) may not fit all …
so a guy can be
but still always be the one initiating .
the chasing part to me makes me think a guy/gal might chase either preference that suits his personality.
how obvious they are might depend on thier personality.
but again,
H and L is still mixing with what is already there,right???
so many things can come into play,
which makes this an art and not all science.
Exactly, and - for social situations, not work or other business-y functions - I love the reactions I get with TAH, because everyone is enjoying themselves more. I’ve never had a negative reaction to TAH in a social/romantic situation. I should add that I get moderate (not over-the-top) TAL-type reactions without wearing pheros.
My own experience doesn’t really validate the theory about people’s reactions to TAH having anything to do with their discomfort with certain aspects of femininity; I think it just has to do with what kind of expressions of male/female duality make their lights come on.
its my limited opinion that most balanced people wouldnt have an over-the-top discomfort to TAH.
it would occur to me that you hang with some pretty balanced company.
my SO is not balanced
you know Carrie,
when I am out and about just having fun,
I could bathe in TAH.
Id prolly wear it every day.
at work however,
when its important to me that i am helpful,
im hardly given a chance wearing TAH
maybe wearing TAH sends the message that I hate beer?
Yes, exactly! Too preoccupied with everything until exhaustion overwhelms him. His normal mode without pheromone enhancement, he gets flustered if I initiate, though.
There’s more going on there than meets the eye. Although I love him dearly, I know that he was raised in a family with an overly controlling father, who still tries to rule the whole family’s every move, and he has some of his father’s characteristics, and a general loathing of anything that smacks of attempts to “control” him.
One of the reasons he fell in love with me in the first place is I go toe to toe with him every time he tries to control me, and I don’t let him fail to face the consequences of his own decisions. I fell in love with him because he is much more like his mother than his father - he is loyal, disciplined, honest, family-oriented, trustworthy, and able to make a commitment and stick to it. But I wouldn’t call him balanced.
You brought out so many valid points, and I agree full-heartedly.
The need to be in control in the bedroom and discomfort with me initiating has changed with pheromone use and time. Now he can give and receive with equal enjoyment. I blame Beta Androstenol and TAF to a large extent for the ease with which that change came about after I started using these pheromones.
But, a caveat here is that you can only work with what you have. If he didn’t already have the ability to be an equal partner, all the pheromones in the world wouldn’t have changed that. The pheromones just enabled him to more easily express a part of himself that was buried under neurotic anxiety.
TAH and he don’t get along. I don’t get along well with it either. Even trying to balance it out with TAL, TAH just makes me pissy and pouty, things I never normally feel or express. I just don’t think I have any TAHness in me to resonate with it in a positive way.
One thought I have on why you three (Diane, Lor and Tigerlilly) have issues with TAH from others could be a problem with congruence
My impression of all three of you is that you have strong personalities - You are a TAL type girl and you are used to interacting with others/being interacted with in a way that compliments that part of your personality.
There has been so many posts in the Women’s forums about ladies wearing IS/a and feeling like men are being angry/mean to them - almost everytime those women find that they absolutely love IS/b. TAH type women have the same issues with TAL that you gals have with TAH… it just expresses differently based on your perspective.
TAH girls wearings TAL feel men interacting with them with a kind of hardness that to them feels “mean”… TAL girls wearing TAH feel men interacting with them with a softness that feels like disrespect.
That is the best metaphor I have is that TAL women are hard and TAH women are soft - From my perspective I personally can’t be with a TAH girl… It’s not that I don’t enjoy taking care of my LTR, but I’ve got a personality like a steam roller and unless I’m with a girl who is a little bit hard (I.E. doesn’t just let me flatten her out) it ends badly. It goes the same way for you ladies. You (Lor at the very least) have probably noticed that you just steamroll some guys and now tend to stick to SO’s who don’t let you do it. Those guys are generally the same kind of guys who would steamroll their ladies and stick to ladies who don’t allow it as well.
I think when you wear TAH around your SO you may have problems because subconsciously he knows he has to avoid TAH type girls. There is also the fact that he knows you as a TAL girl and therefore the TAH vibe feels incongruent with whom he knows you to be. Same deal with the bartender - There is a real possibility that the men are avoiding you because you hold yourself like a TAL girl, but are vibing TAH… It’s like a guy wearing A314 and acting meek… the incongruence subconsciously confuses people so they avoid that person.
There is also the situational incongruence at the bar - when I’m out drinking at a pub I don’t really want a “cuddly” bartender - TAH reminds me of sitting at home with my LTR having a night in, it’s nice… but not what I’m looking for at the bar - TAL has a more extroverted quality to it which IMO is more congruent with what most men want when they are sitting around having a couple drinks.
Erm I got lost in my thoughts there… hopefully this all made sense
i think I naturally produce whatever TAL is to a high high degree. “intimidating” is most often used to describe me. If Mharris ever needs a new source of TAL, he can come and squeeze my dandruff, or whatever he does to get this magic juice.
When i wear TAH, I dont come across as meek or soft, or feel softer - i get the “falling in love” peace, serenity, happiness vibe. With my TG at least, it’s been very very respectful. I am leading a new business partnership we have, and he’s been awesome and respectful through the whole thing. There was no steam rolling or anything. Going back over my notes, when I wore IS/a around him, i was partially avoided.
i think you are spot on with the situational incongruence with Lor at the bar though.
Diane is exactly right too though - expecting everyone to act the same and respond the same is ridiculous. I can say my TG is behaving great with TAH and treating me respectfully, but other guys are not, so how do i fix it so ALL guys treat me awesomely - it just wont work, no matter how much I want it to.
The best I can do is work with myself, trying to get a congruent mix to where i feel the awesome vibes from TAH, but still project enough of me to “take no shit” - be only a little intimidating.
I really liked your bringing out that it’s men interacting “softer” with women. I think that goes back to Lor’s point on people’s concepts of femininity, and their reactions toward that. most of the time, it’s awesome - sometimes, it’s disrespectful. I guess the bottom line - that is not our problem. it’s their problem.
That was a really awesome post and I loved reading. I love getting guys perspectives, and yours is really awesome and valuable. Thanks.
Er… yeah… no. In my specific case, when I wear TAH my husband actually is disrespectful. He isn’t “soft” and seeming to be disrespectful. His every action, body language, and spoken message is all in congruence with the fact that he doesn’t take me seriously or value any contribution I might make to anything. And he actively insults me and disregards my imput as useless and a waste of his time. That is a total low value response from my husband who normally holds me in high regard. In my specific situation TAH takes me from HV to LV, completely in his eyes.
And I don’t believe it can be accounted for completely by my response to TAH, because I’ve tested this response by putting the TAH on the back of my head, where I don’t get self-effects.
Diane, do you think that this is any way true for you?
You are saying that he does not respect you as a person or partner with TAH.You have also said that TAH makes you moody and pissy.
I get a “falling in love” peaceful vibe. I also get a moderate amount of disrespectful interactions (but I think Wrl-whatever is spot on in that I am viewing those interactions against my normal frame of mind, which is generally accustomed to being treated like a mx134+p80 individual.)
Lor loves everyone, is “pink” yin , and wants to burn incense. She gets no dinero though.
Hmm…
I think we have come to a point where individual biochemistry really is playing a significant part. We can talk about peoples reactions to femininity/TAH vibe, and who people prefer, but in the end, we can also find reasons to blow all that out of the water. Diane had a brilliant post a few back knocking down my theory on TAH neurotransmitter cascades in others. She was probably more right in there than anything else though.
I still want to try combining -rone and TAH.
I wonder why Diane’s hubby responds well to est and Lor’s doesnt. More biochemistry?
I should have broken it up better - I think that your SO’s reaction would be quite different than the standard stranger
I hinted at that - my remark that as a guy who knows that he can’t be with a certain kind of girl (stereotypical TAH girl), because I steamroll them, I consciously make decisions to not pursue those types of women romantically. I could see myself having a subconsciously negative reaction to someone I views romantically suddenly seeming TAH-like - I’m very even… it would probably mostly manifest as disinterest or inattention. Your husband seems like he is a more emotionally extreme person (that is not intended as an insult in any way) - I could see his reaction manifesting in a more extreme way (outright disrespect) - especially if he has especially negative associations with TAH type women.
There is no way for me to know what he is experiencing subconsciously. With his behavior, though, I know that he can go from being normal to devaluing me as soon as I apply TAH and it happens like a snap… I shower and he is normal again.
But incongruence normally causes him to be either puzzled or entertained. I has never in the past caused him to belittle me. When I set out to do something incongruent (which I sometimes do just for fun (because I am a Gemini)) he usually finds it entertaining.
You guys are probably more balanced than I am. I don’t like to have unasked for help thrust upon me. I don’t find that disrespectful, though, just distracting. But to me distraction is a major problem. Someone being helpful can actually put me way behind or totally off course because of the distraction factor.
But it is more than that, though. Even wearing TAH alone with no interaction with others I end up in a negative head space, pouty and pissy… almost like bad PMS. It has to be biochemical. I think it is a biochemical reaction in my husband as well.
An interesting aside to this that may very well have a bearing is that my husband and I are very much alike in many ways. We often react in ways that are nearly identical. So, it doesn’t really surprise me that he has a negative reaction to something that I also react negatively with.
It seems to be more and more the case. Us three are having very different reactions to this phero, and are observing different reactions in others around us. I wager that this is a biochemical difference, and probably if we investigated TAL, we’d find a similar disparity in experiences among users.
It is interesting that Androtics is using these two chemicals in the major basis of their female product line, when they seem to be very different and possibly very counterproductive in their biochemical application.
I would LOVE to see MHarris’s notes on these two pheros. I wonder what they are, and where they are, and how they are effecting us/others, biochemically.
I am going to start some major TAH experiments. I’ve ordered my new TAH and it should be here by the end of the week. I want to get some -rone as well, but that will have to wait for the moment.
Oh, on an aside - Lor, do you have the same results with IS/b that you do with TAH? I’ve worn IS/b and it’s like I am wearing nothing. That might be because the amount of TAH in the dose I am wearing is negligible compared to the TAH dose I need to feel an effect…
Also, have you tested the TAH “aging” effect yet? I am still getting better hits hours and hours after application. I can apply it the night before and get great results in the am.
That is very interesting. It speaks to the depth of your relationship and your bond.
For me personally, it’s also interesting in relation to my observations on the people I have interacted with w/TAH and TAL. The Pastor who love TAL is my polar opposite. I can’t remember how he acted with TAH. I will have to try that tomorrow. The other TAL guy hated HATED TAH. MX135 was all the TAH he could take, and only then because there was some TAL in it. Even a tiny, tiny bit of TAL grabs me and propels me to TAL-ifstan.
My TG really enjoys TAH, and me in TAH. He and I are very, very similar in many many ways. (Why he is my TG…) Encouraging, me thinks, in light of your experiences…
i think so much more plays into reaction than just pheromones, vibes are given off and subconcious gesturing/communication, in addition to whatever that person ate for the day
prolly biochemistry.
no i dont.
i think not only is the amount of TAH less than your accustomed to,
but that using it with some TAL balances out any possible negs.
atleast it does for me.
i love my IS/B.
but i get more incense out of high TAH doses.
ah hahahaha.
very interesting,Diane.
id like to fast-forward to a time where the biochemical part is easily understood.
this is where we differ…
TAH agrees with me.
and my SO and i couldnt be more different.
similar sense of humor,
similar sense of integrity,
but im social-
he’s anti-social.
everything else with me and him seem like opposites :o
I was doing some research on the forums for TAH. Specifically, I was trying to find all the old old posts on it and work forward, since I think that that data was generally uncorrupted by the craziness that’s sometimes on the boards now. (those old posts are amazing.)
I came across some very intriguing historical posts by you.
First, let me just say that you are an incredible person. In the short time that I have known you, I have found you to be an incredibly wise, centered, grounded, caring, loving, gentle, patient individual. You are a true inspiration to be around, as a person.
Now, after reading a bit of your history, I am even more in awe.
I don’t know what kind of inner strength you found to bring you back to the place you are currently in. Talking to you for the brief time that I have thus far, you seem to be happy in general with where you are. Working towards resolution, but happy nonetheless.
I truly, truly apologize for any pain or confusion you are currently going through at home. I do hope it gets better. I completely understand and resonate with your decisions you’ve made, both going and coming, in relation to your children.
I made a similar (and yet so different) life-altering decision, entirely for my children, a couple of years ago. I can understand and empathize with the thought processes you went through. I’m going to go out on a (short) limb here and say Diane does/will too.
You have friends here, ones you can lean on (again, as the forum clearly helped way back then too).
I don’t understand why he is accusing you of this behavior. You seem to think it is not phero related, and since you aren’t wearing -none stuff, I would agree with your guess. You said he’s not a good responder to est? Could he be “allergic” to pregnancy/est, as Diane suggested?
Is this a serious accusation? A show stopper kind of a confrontation, or an irritation? In reality, I suppose that anything that eats away at trust is a show stopper at some level. That gnawing, empty feeling inside is impossible to put away.
I hope for the best for you. Truly.
You have become very important to me in the short time we’ve communicated. (you too Diane)
Sorry to bring up “old” (5 days ago) stuff, but this went by quickly, and now, in light of my knowledge on your history, I can see the little bit of info that you reveal for the hidden gems that they are.
BTW - I am a virgo. You are a quintessential Aquarian.
my Father and I are duplicates of one another. We are exactly the same. Same mannerisms, same thought processes, same way of dealing with anger, sadness, hurt, etc. Same way we eat. Same way we hold a fork. Same way we sit at the computer and type. Same way we view the world. We will react identically to the same stimulus, story, movie, etc. From big to small, we are the same.
This is especially funny because I left the house when I was 14 and never looked back. I spent my formative adolescent years, searching for an adult personality, completely absent of my family or my father. We came back together in my 20’s and discovered not only were we identical, it was like finding a long lost twin, and a best friend.
I think there is something definitely hardwired biochemically into how we behave, much more so than the “nature vs nurture” debate really touches on.
I think some things can be environmental (same sense of humor, same sense of integrity, etc), but that there is still a biochemical basis for it all.
Which really makes these TAH/TAL talks quite fun, imo.
) just confirms for everyone else on the board that one size (dose) may not fit all …
This is my husband: