Now normally I wouldn’t get annoyed with what I see as a ‘cult fringe’ group of people enough to talk about them on here, but this is ridiculous, and almost pitiful.
Apparently there is an increasing movement that was brought into play by some guys on youtube… It’s almost the direct OPPOSITE of what many of the mones’ community does, and it’s the complete opposite of the PUA community from my observation.
These guys who started it, who have websites and videos on youtube, call the (apparently growing) movement ‘True Forced Loneliness’, which I guess is similar to the whole ‘involuntarily celibate’ thing that was brought up on the board a while back, but this seems even worse.
It’s almost like a super-negative-self-pity-fest.
These guys swear up and down that society forces them into being single, not getting laid, being lonely, etc.
They’re also very mysogynistic and the blame is pointed at women mainly, and the claim is that because of Feminism and Society, women only go for guys with good looks, and that they openly reject guys that aren’t considered attractive, immediately.
I’ve had conversations with these cats, and tried opening them up to the idea of social training (think Xuma, Gambler, etc, from the PUA circles,) they swear that PUA is all BS that doesn’t work, and that pheromones don’t either, unless you’re freakin Tom Cruise in looks or something similar, or have tons of money.
When I tried to address the fact that women are very empathic and their group has a self-defeating attitude, (And that women can pick up on a bitter, self loathing, woman-bitter ‘nice guy’,) they got VERY defensive and started making personal attacks, go figure.
So this brings me to my question…
How many guys do you know that aren’t really considered ‘super hot’ or even ‘good looking’ that have attractive girlfriends/pickup closes/whatever?
I myself know quite a few that have done the PUA training and tried improving their lifestyle and have some darn attractive girlfriends.
Looks may play some role in it, BUT I think that a LOT of it is based on confidence, to which these ‘all knowing’ fellas seem to totally disagree.
Ladies, feel free to chime in one this one! Looks vs Confidence and Personality!
There’s an actual “movement”? Wow. I mean granted, I’ve thought that in the past, the self defeating thoughts, but that was during a down time in my life. Experience has taught me that it’s not so much what the guy looks like but what he is like as a person. Case in point, some women I knew from my high school class are absolutely gorgeous and great people, yet the people they married are definitely not Tom Cruises. These guys you mention, they have been burned too many times, but to actually make it into a movement, misery loves company I suppose but that’s not a great way to look on life. To each their own I suppose.
Yep! It’s a movement, with several websites and such.
It’s so mysogynistic that in some of the videos, one of the ringleaders actually was raving that he was happy about some guy shooting some chick that rejected him! It’s psycho to the point of creepy with some of these clowns.
And anytime you try saying otherwise, the ringleaders accuse you of being ‘allied with feminists’ and part of the ‘eugenics conspiracy’ to eliminate people who are less than attractive from the genepool.
Ok, ochrismongrelo (your ‘name’ makes me giggle - Oz thing); I know exactly the type to whom you are referring. There is no help for them until they realise that while it’s ok to demand that people like you for yourself; but you can’t be bitter when the self is not likeable.
Here in WA, where the guys lose their hair early and average height is 5’ 8" and the state temperament is passive/aggressive (I’m not kidding, it’s taken me years not to verbally trip into trouble every time I open my mouth ); you see LOTS of couples that you just don’t get. There are so many tall women here, dating or married to SHORT guys, bald guys, fat guys, nerdy types, crusty types and any combination of the above.
You commonly see: stunning professional women dating crusty, dredlocked, granola crunching, dirty looking bike riding Kurt devotees and hippies.
I have seen so many (appearance only) homely guys with pretty to straight up gorgeous girls/women as their SO’s. My friend Korteney is one. Dred Zak is NOT pretty, his overall demeanor is sullen and she thought him hot - in the beginning. BUT and this is the big qualifier: The reason she broke up with him was nothing to do with his looks; it was the sullen demeanor, the contempt he has for everyone else, the unthinking verbal abuse and a variety of personal aspects that showed him to be someone she’s not willing to spend time with. It took her 10 months to be sure and in that time, everyone that met them just didn’t get it! Guys throw themselves at her in the street! Every single person that met her, Zak and me would ask "HOW?!!! did that guy pull Korteney?! No-one got it and there is happiness on the streets of downtown Seattle now that they’re not together.
Personally, I look behind the beauty to see if it is only skin deep. I also don’t follow the ‘norm’ in what I consider attractive. My last serious relationship was with a gifted nerd. His gift is programming, and he makes serious money as a freelancer. So much so, that he didn’t have a ‘feast or famine’ life. There was always work for him, tonnes of it - how nerdy is that?!
He didn’t have looks in the conventional sense, but his humor and his confidence in who he was and what he does left him unconcerned with those things he couldn’t change. Like his nose - which had been broken twice; or the fact that he has auburn hair - not Aussie blonde, and a red beard, and all of his body hair is strawberry blonde and really long. Mosquitoes would land on the hair of his arm and not be able to reach his skin! He considered that a plus, where we lived.
So, you are completely right in my opinion:
(And that women can pick up on a bitter, self loathing, woman-bitter ‘nice guy’,)
Why would any fem, with a healthy self image want to get involved with someone who’s determined to blame everyone else for their lack of social skill and vent and rail at them constantly? Nearly every female knows to steer clear of the bitter misogynist - why let someone hate on you, tell you you’re less than because of your gender and then expect a you to make nice, give him a bj and cook dinner?!!!
Please. Let them remove themselves from the gene pool. Obviously, they’re so ‘not a catch’ that no-one can be moved to fix them up - that’s a statement in itself.
True Forced Lonliness? Bullshit. A successful nerd can buy company. That they don’t tells me they’re not successful. There are any number of dating sites, arrangement sites, buy-a-bride sites. Who do they think that market is aimed at?
Harsh? I don’t think so. If you put yourself on paper, attributes, qualities, skills etc and if you wouldn’t date you, why the fuck would anyone else?
OK first off a couple of points that MAY bother or annoy some (maybe not but who knows)
“Society” doesn’t have much to do directly with whether or not you can get a woman, it’s plain unadulterated Darwinism. Standards of beauty and attraction may change over time or vary between cultures but the social standards are guided by survival instinct. In other words, what is attractive in a given culture is attractive because that is what it takes to survive and thrive within that culture. So blame mother nature if you have a gripe.
Secondly…fuck those hypocrites. The population of the world is over 6 BILLION, that’s billion with a B. I doubt that a small handful of handsome men are fucking the female half of that number, I doubt the population could reach that number if only “attractive” people were fucking each other.
But here’s where the hypocrisy comes in and forgive me if I’m politically incorrect with this, but the world is chock full of unattractive women too. Women that never got asked to the prom, never got roses on valentines day etc. And I know that quite a few of these women have learned about superficiality from personal experience that if a decent guy showed an interest in them, well…his balding head, pot belly, big nose or whatever trait it is that he thinks makes him unattractive would be lost on her.
See these guys that think the world is shitting on them because they’re ugly are doing is bitching because they can’t get any of the “hot” women. In the process being every bit as shallow, superficial and judgmental as the women they’re hating on.
Self proclaimed unattractive guy: Being ugly sucks, no women will ever want to out with me!
Unattractive but sensitive female: I’d go out with you.
Unattractive guy: …no HOT women will ever want to go out with me…shallow people suck!
Thirdly, here’s the thing about PUA theory. It does require that you change yourself in a lot of ways. Change means growth, it means cultivating a personality that is attractive. Some guys say “I don’t want to change for a woman” or “I want a woman to want me for me”…excrement. They want women, but they don’t want to put the work into becoming a solid masculine attractive male. Blaming societal standards, womens shallowness, or just plain bad luck in the genetic lottery is so much easier because all of those things are outside ones realm of control. Fuckin Viccies.
Point number four…movement my ass…not that my ass is having a movement, at least not right now, I meant it in a different context but I’m veering off here.
To get back in line, their “movement” is nothing more than a circle jerk pity party and hardly constitutes a movement at all. An actual movement has a goal, an achievable agenda to accomplish. The civil rights movement was genuine, the women’s movement was real, the gay rights movement is legit…all the above mentioned movements were undertaken by people with REAL problems and had an actual goal to accomplish besides feeling sorry for themselves in a group.
The PUA shit works, I have a friend who’s 6’5, 360 pounds, with a receding hairline and one testicle (cancer survivor) he now has a girlfriend. Not a super hot head turner but cute enough that I’d do her…and I told him so (lol he’s actually proud of the fact he’s dating a chick I consider fuckable go figure)
He went through the Style Life Challenge twice, once using Ammo, and has since picked up a few more products relating to PUA theory and is happy as hell.
Seriously, how spoiled are we here? As opposed to those still having their marriages arranged. I had an arrangement thanx to Eastern European tradition; but I bucked that system that wouldn’t be held up in an Australian court. In places like Persia (being PC) and India, it’s all about who your family is, how big the woman’s dowry blah blah all that bs that MEN invented to make themselves feel better about being ugly inside and out. This is a discussion that could easily get out of hand; my closing opinion is that yes, True Forced Loneliness is in fact a movement. A bowel one and they have dysentery .
I think if you take a look out there you will find a group with just about everything under the sun.
My opinion on these guys are they cant take responsibility for themselves. Its easier for them to blame life’s little failures on society, culture, or even women. This way they can say “its not our fault” and ultimately hold onto what little self esteem they have left. Unfortunately people with this attitude never move forward. They stagnant in there own self pity just reinforcing there unattractiveness. Not only that but they are hypocrites as RAD so perfectly described. They assume that women judge men in the same fashion that they judge women.
Now I am not saying that looks dont matter at all. For that first initial impression of someone its one of the first things that both men and women look at. Its what grabs our attention. Its not however what creates attraction sexual or otherwise.
I have met many men who dont grab my attention visually and on first meeting my perspective can be they are between a 3 to 5. Then as I get to know them that number begins to rise or fall. My perspective of their attractiveness changes not because there appearance changed but because of there personality, attitude and how they carry themselves. I know many men who started out as 3’s and are now 7 or 8’s in my opinion.
Women do keep score on a subconscious level though but we score you like a olympic event. My friends call it the “quality score” LOL Although we dont process it in numbers in our heads I can only explain it in numbers (which I hate doing). Younger people both men and women focus more on just the visual score sometimes. It depends on life experience and maturity but we all grow as people whether we notice or not and as we do our perspectives expand a bit. By the early to mid twenties most people’s perspective has already begun changing. Of course there are exceptions to every rule but for 90% of the population this is how it works
Example…
If your a 5 in the visual
5 in masculinity
9 in personality
10 in attitude
7 in intelligence
7 in miscellaneous ( style, sexual vibe and skill and other personal preferences we all may have)
Your a 7.1 range (again individual personal preference will make it vary. Some people may not care about style or skill, others may add things like values etc etc.)
Now its harder to change your appearance if you have a big nose or your bald or something like that. You only have so much control over those things. Some guys and girls can shift that number slightly with style, fitness, makeup, hygiene etc etc. They tend to focus on only that though and wonder why they are not scoring more.
However you can bring that “quality score” up a lot still because you do have control over the other aspects I listed.
So same guy does a little inner work.
He is still a 5 visually but now…
7 in masculinity
10 in personality
10 in attitude
8 in intelligence
8 in miscellaneous
Suddenly your 7.1 went up to a 8. Now throw some chemical attraction (pheromones) in there and that QS go’s up even more. Learn PUA and body language and again the score rises. You have control, maybe not of every little thing but of most things.
I know a guy at work who is visually a 9. He is very good looking. He is also very masculine I would give him a 9 there. Then you get to know him. His personality is cynical and he is judgemental of everyone and everything. He is quick to anger and is not very nice to people. We try to include him in events and conversations but he’s just cold and doesn’t want to participate. He’s not likable. You see it in his facial expressions and body language well before you approach him to which can bring his visual score down to a 5 but lets still give him a 9 for the sake of the example.
9 + 9 + 0 + 1 + 5 + 5 = 29/6= 4.8 His ugly didnt come from how he looks it comes from within.
So if you just want attention which is short lived just work on your visual score but if you want attraction sexual of otherwise work on your “quality score”
Keep in mind if your quality score is low I dont care if your a 10 in the looks department we’re not having sex with you.
I know it seems impersonal in my description and I apologize but some things felt are hard to explain.
It may be forced loneliness but they are forcing it on themselves no one else is doing it. They have choices and they made the choice to not grow and mature.
Sad, immature gits who are emotionally unprepared or otherwise won’t face-up to taking themselves in hand and getting what they want in life.
OK, most of us have probably wallowed in self pity at some point but then got on with life and learned - These guys however do make me wonder about how many of them suffer from some form of depression/anti social disorder and are simply looking for mutual support rather than help?
So other than concern for their mental health, I don’t see them as deserving much discussion.
This thread just made me REALLY think about a friend of mine. He is, looks-wise, the most average, blended, face in a crowd, BUT his charisma and social savvy are off the charts. Add that to the fact that he is a genuine, caring human being and he could literally be the stuff of legends. (He is currently in a stage where he is working his ass off and has very little social time and prefers to spend it with close friends relaxing rather than on the “prowl”) I wonder what would happen if he got ahold of some 'mones? (evil grin)
So the message you want to spread is that if guys don’t get pussy they’ll go off and kill people?
Treat people the way you want to be treated? sounds like he’s asking for a pity fuck and implying that violence will happen if he doesn’t get it.
LMAO why do women push their values on you? Grow a fucking backbone you pansy. You know why a woman might try and subtly impose something on you? To see if you’ll A.) Not let her, and B.) not be a whiney bitch about it.
First off getting in touch with yourself means KNOWING WHO YOU ARE, WHAT YOU WANT AND WHERE YOU’RE GOING! If all you offer a woman is your own lonliness..well that’s not a very appealing fucking package now is it?
As for being confident? I agree it’s vague and not the best worded advice in the world. But the importance of conveying an image of a man that is sure of his own value and capabilities cannot be overstated. In simple terms that you can quanitify andnobjectively define…confidence is awareness of ones own capability. Knowing that you CAN do something. Note that I don’t say that you WILL, or that success is assured, but that the capability and the potential for success is there. It’s like throwing a guy that’s never been in a fight with a UFC champ and advising him to be confident and all will be well. Well we know that’s not the best advice. But if a guy trains, works out, follows a healthy diet and spars with some skilled and experienced fighters before going into that fight, He can do so with a measure of confidence for knowing that he does in fact have the tools to win. Build the tools, be aware of your capabilities and value and confidence comes as a side effect.
There’s a difference between not caring what other people think, and not needing validation and judging yourself by other peoples standards. Further, the analogy of not caring what other people think does not have to equate to not caring about yourself. When I get dressed up I do so because I like looking my best…for ME. There are and no doubt will continue to be people of both genders that don’t care for my sense of style. But they still recognize that I’m a man that takes pride in his appearance, and respect that I don’t define myself by their approval. If you don’t shower, and wear the same T shirt and sweats for three days in a row, it doesn’t say that you don’t care what other people think, it says that you don’t care about yourself. There’s a fucking difference…learn it.
OK this guy is complaining because when he put up a womans picture he got a hundred responses from guys and when he put up a guys picture he only got a couple of responses from women…that’s the fucking nature of the animal kingdom. You know what you’re lonely? (here is where Rad gets a little mean) it’s because you are evolutionarily defective. You’re not gay, you simply want the women to act like the men should in relationships. You want to be demure and passive so that you might be pursued by a woman possessed with masculine aggression. Women will not pursue a passive male because it does not serve her goals of immediate survival, or long term survival of her genetic legacy. If you continue to sit back and wait for the world to bring a woman to your doorstep then your faulty genes will be wiped from the earth never to be seen again.
The New world Order is responsible for the PUA community?
Dude! AWESOME!!! In places, bitingly funny. I just happen to agree with almost everything you said. Overall, you are way kinder than I would have been . . .
Well this topic got me interested, mainly because for a while I was fairly bitter about not having much female attention myself for a while. I wasn’t quite as bad as these guys but yeah I did my time in self loathing. The first few posts I saw I was actually thinking to myself “Most of these guys aren’t exactly unattractive or bad looking men, they could stand working on self presentation a little and actually score above average in the looks dept. Hell I’ve seen guys do great with women that had less to work with.”
However as much as I may have joked about these guys as I watched some more of the video’s last night I started to shift from being amused to being concerned…particularly regarding posts from this guy, Bill (who from what I gather is the founder and defacto leader of the group).
Bill is from what I can tell five different kinds of batshit fucking crazy.
He’s delusional, paranoid, suffers from a persecution complex and frankly seems to be under the influence of alcohol or some meds during most of his posts (evidenced by the crazed look in the eyes, slurred speech and tendency to jump back and forth between issues with no apparent connection to anyone but himself).
He compares Obama to Hitler, refers to the US as Nazi Germany, states that the PUA movement is a product of the New World Order and that the bankers are the ones creating his loneliness due to a need to control the population growth.
The TRULY scary part however is his constant mentions of acts of male violence toward women and how this is an unavoidable reaction to the situation. He continuously goes back to mentioning events in florida where a man went to a health club and started firing, killing three women and wounding several others.
Now he tries to cover his tracks by repeating almost as often that the TFL movement does not condone violence against women…he keeps repeating it.
IMO this is a cultist sort of tactic. He’s not so subtly planting the seeds. Bill has some very paranoid issues with the government and the state of the world. He’s targeting the ultimate foot soldiers…a group of men that feel they have little if anything to lose.
These men feel victimized by fate and Bill offers them a sense of brotherhood and camaraderie, all the while encouraging these men to feel that their pain is being inflicted deliberately. Planting the idea of violence by constantly repeating that neither he nor the group condones it, yet when it occurs takes on a “well what did you expect” mentality.
I believe that Bill is hoping that his members will lash out violently. Acting out against women and drawing media attention to his group…which he uses as a platform to spread his conspiracy theory propaganda that ultimately has little to do with some mens ability to find a healthy relationship. TFL is a recruiting tactic imo and little else. It is the sad, depressed, lonely and disenfranchised that are the ones most easily swayed and most likely to resort to extreme actions when they feel they have nothing more to lose. I fear this group may get even more publicity in the future when more men resort to murder/suicide acts against women and Bill gets more attention to spew his anti government ravings.
LOL, leave them to it. Don’t waste time and energy trying to wench open closed minds. If they’re aware there’s a positive route they can take, yet still want to stay home saturday nights whacking off and crying over how life’s dealt them the short straw rather than being out there having fun then let them be.
Sorry to put it so bluntly, but you know…just sayin’
What I find most terrifying is also, according to your post; is that these are the exact methods Hitler used to rise to power in 1933, and declare and go to war with the support of the German population in 1939.
He spent years pounding vituperative propaganda - aimed at the Jewish population. We all know how that worked out.
This is serious, Hitler started small, got elected to a local office and with constantly beating the population on the head with the recession they were having, only a small % of the population had money, they’re wrong - wrong in their faith, wrong in how they run their businesses blah blah blah etc. Does any of that sound familiar???
Hitler addressed/harangued people at the end of their miserable work days. After the futility of working 10 - 12 hours for not enough pay, to feed already too hungry families. He gave them a definition for their malcontent; gave them scapegoats, and a multitude of reasons why they were responsible for your hardships . . . For hours and hours and over a course of years, he slowly worked the population up to riot and revolution out of dissension.
All Hitler had was stadiums. This person has the communication age! Internet, phone apps and all!
I know this statement is gonna stir the pot - and I mean no discord by it. But every week, there is something that happens that makes me think we need pysch-police in schools.
These kind of issues don’t just happen overnight - they take a lifetime of dysfunction to develop.
When a 2nd grade boy takes his dad’s gun to school to shoot the 2nd grade girl who doesn’t like him - WTF are we doing/missing/encouraging??? I know that was an extreme case - but not in any way isolated or unfortunately, surprising. Columbine - another extreme; but when all the factors were figured in, what did most people say? Exactly: “Well, what did they expect?”
Violence against women, personal ugly attacks are still common; around the world. These types of males (I will NOT call them men!), view women as property - they feel they have a right to the woman of their choice - and completely ignore the concept of a woman’s thought, safety or personal choice.
“Bitch won’t even say hi” - of course not! She can see what you’re thinking - looking at her like she’s a piece of meat. No guy can understand how scary that look is. As a female in a city, you now process that look (if you have your instincts about you); know that this person is looking to hurt you; and now you have to modify your behavior accordingly. Which may even mean changing your routine travel inconveniently. How many times have we heard something like that () in the news piece that tells us the motivation for a deadly attack on some poor woman who ended up as some social rejects obsession?
And now we have another hate movement against, of course, women as the primary ‘problem’ in a malcontents lives! And he’s gaining a following?
Sometimes freedom of speech is a triple edged blade . . . If you wouldn’t let your kid spout such garbage in public, **why **is it ok for some emotionally retarded, black hearted, mis-wired, mentally ill paranoid to spread such poison without ramifications? I DON’T UNDERSTAND HOW SPREADING HATE AND STIRRING VIOLENCE AGAINST A MINORITY IS NOT A CRIME. A PRE-MEDITATED, HATE CRIME.
Women are not a minority but rather the Majority. Thankfully they haven’t figured this out yet.
As far as TFL, I think that self-loathing is a natural reaction for a lot of men, sadly. It seems that this is usually caused by a fear of accepting responsibility in life. I used to have that attitude, not as bad, but it always seemed to be easier to blame others for my problems than taking responsibility. The key word is SEEMED. It only seemed easier, but it leads down a path of depression. I was afraid of taking responsibility because when you take responsibility everything bad that happens is your own fault.
I took responsibility anyway. I was completely wrong. Taking responsibility for your own life is the most freeing thing you can do. It can be hard to beat these self-loathing emotional circuits, especially if you have had them for a while, but life is too short for that garbage. Man up and move on. Find a new hobby. Make new friends. Go out and learn some social skills. Reach out to other people. If these people would reach out to others on a real personal level instead of just objectifying others for their own needs then they would be lifted from their funk and see people as what they are: people with needs and wants of their own.
Wow… just… wow. I have no words. Like Radman said, a lot of these guys aren’t exactly horses-ass ugly, and with a little grooming, could become something presentable. But the old saying is true. Beauty is only skin deep. The best looking guy in the world is of no value to any woman if he’s a simmering sociopath inside. The British black guy in the “I Hate Women” is even trying to take care of himself physically (and it looks like he’s on the right track), but his attitude is so off base it’s not funny.
I dunno… there’s no point in trying to talk any sense into them because their extremely low self esteems cause them to be hyper-defensive. Best to just whisper a little prayer, hope they reach an epiphany, and leave 'em alone.
Master Yoda responds: You have totally misunderstood what TFL (True Forced Loneliness/Male Involuntarily Celibacy), is all about. TFL is about raising awareness that many men are not able to attract women, often through no fault of their own.
Master Yoda responds: Why is it worse?, because the TFL guys have the guts to speak out about the bullshit many men have to endure in the dating game.
Master Yoda responds: That’s your opinion, and opinions are like arseholes we have all got one.And you are mistaken, TFL is not a “super negative self pity fest”, it’s an awareness, that a significant number of men are involuntarily celibate, often through no fault of their own.
Master Yoda responds: I agree that society does not force men to be single, however there are many factors which make dating/or courtship much harder for the average guy eg. entitlement feminism, overly picky women with impossible standards etc.
Master Yoda responds: Oh dear, here we go, just because a man dares to justifiably criticise certain aspects of female bad behaviour, that makes him a misogynist does it?, so it’s ok for women to bash and degrade men, but it’s not ok for men to fight back?. Women can be very, very shallow and I have seen this kind of behaviour countless times. If you honestly believe many women are not lookist bigots, then you probably believe that water is not wet, and fire is not hot. Some (not all) women do reject men instantly just because of looks, and denying it is like denying the sun rises in the east, and sets in the west.
Master Yoda responds: PUA is BS, and a scam of the highest order, because nightclubs/bars are the most shallowest and superficial environments on this planet (where women only care about looks). And do you honestly believe an average to ugly looking guy is going to pick up hot looking women or any women for that matter, using cheesy pick up lines and PUA crap?? I am 100% supportive of men who want to improve their dating lives, but wasting their hard earned money on PUA quackery is not the answer.
Master Yoda responds: Some women are empathetic to the plight of involuntarily celibate men, but most of them just shame these men with the typical feminist shaming language eg. “you are a bitter loser”, “you are a misogynist”, “you have got no confidence” blah,blah,blah. Women give the worst dating advice, because more often than not women’s actions don’t match their words. Many involuntary celibate men have taken the advice from people like you, the PUA community/industry and women, and guess where it got them?, NOWHERE. The reason involuntary celibate men get very defensive and justifiably so, is that they are sick to death of being shamed and attacked for something that in many cases, is not their fault. If you are going to throw punches, expect to receive some in return.
Master Yoda responds: I have never stated that just because you are an average/or ugly looking man you won’t get women, of course you can, and many of them do. But for the average/ugly looking man, dating is much harder than it is for a good looking guy, and that is a irrefutable fact. People in general tend to date people of a similar level of physical attractiveness, ie a man who is a 5/10 on the looks scale will only be able to attract a female who is also a 5/10, there are some exceptions to this of course, but there is an a “attractiveness hierarchy”.
Master Yoda responds: I agree men can make themselves more attractive to women,eg. working out at the gym, dressing in good clothes, being clean and smelling nice, but PUA does not work, because how can a good looking guy who is a born natural with women
going to teach an ugly man how to be attractive to women? It’s like a 7ft guard in the NBA trying to teach a 3ft dwarf/midget how to slam dunk.
Master Yoda reponds: Looks play a huge role in whether a man is successful with women or not, do you know of any good looking involuntarily celibate men?, because I certainly don’t. The reason many involuntarily celibate disagree with you about the importance of looks, is because they have experienced first hand just how shallow some women are. And please, drop this “confidence” crap, because please quantify what exactly is “confidence”.
Master Yoda responds: Oh please, female dating advice is about as reliable as a politicians promise (sarcasm fully intended).
Master Yoda responds: Irrespective of whether a guy is a sociopath, if he is good looking, women will forgive flaws like that. Did you know that notorious serial killer Ted Bundy and other evil bastards got fan mail/marriage proposals when they were on death row? But getting back to the topic, the reason many men are involuntarily celibate is because of their looks. Sure you can improve this by working out at the gym, and improving your wardrobe/fashion sense, but some guys are just that unattractive, and no amount of “pop positivity”/PUA BS is going to change that.
Master Yoda: Why don’t you get rejected by women your entire life, and see how it feels. The reason many involuntarily celibate men get hyper-defensive is because of the never ending shaming language they are subjected to. If you are going to attack people, then you should expect retaliation.
Master Yoda responds: I am not sure whether to laugh or cry reading the absolute nonsense and drivel that has been written above.
You are comparing involuntarily celibate to men Adolf Hitler??, are you completely off your head??, were you on drugs when you typed this??
As a involuntarily celibate man myself, I do not, and never will see women as anyones property, and nor do I believe women owe men a relationship, any more than men owe women relationships. The world does not owe anybody anything, if you want something, then you have to get off your arse and work for it. But what does give me the royal shits, is the shaming language involuntarily celibate are subjected 24/7 by misinformed and misguided people who have never experienced what it’s like to be involuntary celibate. I am not asking for sympathy, but for empathy, there is a difference. And to suggest that women have these magical,psychic powers and are able to detect creepy men is ridiculous.
So it’s ok for women to look at men they are attracted to, but it’s shameful and “creepy” for men to express their sexuality?, what a double standard.
I agree the TFL people can be overly conspiratorial, but to suggest that every involuntarily celibate man is somehow a ticking time bomb is absurd and slanderous. The vast majority of men who find themselves challenged by dating are very passive,gentle and would not hurt a fly.
); you see LOTS of couples that you just don’t get. There are so many tall women here, dating or married to SHORT guys, bald guys, fat guys, nerdy types, crusty types and any combination of the above.
and other personal preferences we all may have)
(evil grin)
