Another thing to keep in mind with tuth is that there are two versions. There could be different reactions in combinations. That’s why it’s so much fun. There are always new possibilities.
“Infinite diversity in infinite combinations!” – Trek ![]()
Another thing to keep in mind with tuth is that there are two versions. There could be different reactions in combinations. That’s why it’s so much fun. There are always new possibilities.
“Infinite diversity in infinite combinations!” – Trek ![]()
This sounds reaaaaaaally complicated!! LoL
I’m not thinking of mixing just yet (I should be getting my package tomorrow!), but is it even OK to mix pheromones?? Wouldn’t it be better to just spray/drop whatever products you have individually?
Also, when layering dif. products, are you supposed to let each one “dry down” first, or can you spray each one on right after the other?
As a newbie I’m not thinking of mixing/layering products just yet. This is all for future reference!
BTW great question/post, SteveO! And Fra Septimus, I can’t believe you did all the calculations! You make it look soooo easy!!! ![]()
Basically with the tools that MOST people are using, your accuracy isn’t going to be very good. 3.5ml pipettes can be a bit tricky to use. Lets say your error on a 3.5ml pipette is +/- 5%. When you’re using small doses at 5mcg a spray, thats +/- 0.25 mcg, which is not too noticeable in a mix. Say you increase your concentration and use say a bottle with a concentration of 1000mcg. +/- 5% is 50mcg which is a very noticeable difference in terms of use. Just FYI, a lot of fixed volume or variable volume pipettes have a standard +/- 1.6-1.0% error rate. The 3.5ml pipettes that some users here use all have an error rate that varies with the user.
A teacher of mine said it best: “Good lab technique generates good lab results”
And I use a very… complicated way of getting my mcg per spray. It’s similar to what Fra Septimus was saying. Assuming the site is accurate in that a 30mL bottle has 200 sprays, that is about .15 mL per spray. So you have to keep in mind that you are limited to that amount per spray. So if you want say 5mcg of x 5mcg of y 5mcg of z, you’re probably going to be buying x, y, z in concetrations of 15mcg per spray or something relatively close. If your desired concentrations aren’t so simple and the stuff you have on hand are not the same concentrations then they get a little more complicated. There are lots of ways to approach this from different measuring equipment, to the concentrations that you plan on buying them in. I just find out how much pheros per 500 ul since I’m using a fixed volume 500 ul pipette and go from there.
If you can be extremely accurate relative to the concentrations that you are working with, it doesn’t really matter what concentrations you buy them in, just get the math right. If you find yourself using 5-6 sprays of something at 100mcg a spray, you’re going to need extremely accurate equipment. Probably along the lines of +/-1%.
If you being accurate poses a problem, you may want to buy things all in the same concentration when mixing so you have easy ratios to work with.
EDIT
think of it this way: 99% isn’t as good as 99.9999% accurate. out of 100 times, the 99% will be wrong once. Out of 1million tries, the 99.9999% will be wrong once where as the 99% will be wrong 10,000 times. So since most people are going to be around 90-95% accurate, dealing with smaller concentrations will show less noticeable errors. When dealing with significant figures you’re limited to what you know is true for a fact. This is why scientists will go with their lowest sig fig because they know for certain they won’t be wrong up to that significant figure.
/endEDIT
Spreadsheet? Yes please!
That would be wonderful for those of us who are mathematically challenged.
My goal is to make some specific combos for myself, then label the bottles accordingly. For ex:
Hot Sex (P83, P79, etc.)
Inlaws (Shine, MX134, etc.)
Meeting (Same as hot sex mix)
Buying shoes/car (hot sex mix)
I think it would encourage people to experiment more!!!
I’ve made an excel sheet for mixing. It has room for 10 pheros you want to mix. It will tell you how much in mL you need to add, how much mcg/spray you are actually going to get, and how many sprays you will need to achieve the mcg/spray you want for the final solution.
Keep in mind that if you want a 10mcg/spray and have a 5mcg/spray solution, it will NOT work. You cannot increase the concentration from 5mcg/spray into 10mcg/spray for the FINAL solution. You NEED to have either the SAME concentration or HIGHER than the FINAL solution. I will explain what I mean.
2.5mcg/spray x2 is NOT equal to 5mcg/spray in terms of CONCENTRATION. The TOTAL pheromones APPLIED IS THE SAME but the CONCENTRATION is not. I will put it this way. You have a solution that is 100 gallons. 50 gallons is water, 50 is oil. To get 100 oil, you need 2 times the solution so you will have 200 gallons, 100 water, 100 oil. But the CONCETRATION is still 50% oil, 50% water. Same goes for the pheros. You cannot INCREASE the concentration of the phero UNLESS you have another source that is HIGHER in concentration or IF you have the pheros in PURE form. If you do not believe me and don’t want to heed this, go for it, but you WILL fuck up.
THAT being said, DO NOT change any of the formulas. ESPECIALLY the ones in ROW D. It has an IF statement that I put in that will prevent an error if you do not use all 10 rows. All you have to do is put in what you want to add, what YOU want the FINAL MCG/SPRAY to be, and what mcg/spray YOU HAVE ON HAND. Again, if you have a lower mcg/spray then what you want for the final concentration, it won’t work when you apply it. The spreadsheet will still give you a result, but it won’t be right. I assume this is what people are asking for. If not, oh well, I tried. I have no idea how to post my spreadsheet on here but if you PM me that you want it, with your email, I will send it to you.
EDIT
Here is a link to see a preview of what it looks like.
Google Docs - mixing
The #div/0 will disappear once you start entering the numbers.
/endEDIT
I use a spreadsheet myself that was donated by Dancing Joker after extensive brain sessions with him.
The man is genius, but I have been sworn never to reveal the sheet to anyone. So true to my word I will not.
This post is pretty old, but it certainly helped me understand the complicity behind mixing.
would there be any reactions when the molecules and even the scent are mixed together?
mmm what I’m really interested in is the chemical and structural composition of these pheromones. I’m sure the people at androtics have knowledge of this, just wondering if they take it into consideration when making mixes. Anyone who knows have any input? Do the polarity of the molecules have any impact on how well a mix interacts with each other? Some molecules may be non polar, do these molecules tend to clump up with each other? Do isomers of the molecule still provide the same results? Has anyone tried to use various isomers of well known pheros?
Just questions like those. Molecular structure + polarity, do people go this indepth with pheros? Just wondering since pheromones are a type of hormone and seeing how our knowledge of hormones has leapt in the past few years it may be helpful to apply some of it to pheromones.
what do you mean by “reaction”? Like an actual chemical reaction?
Blink Blink ok so from now on I’m going to focus on my math for this lol. Something tells me I’m going to need it lol. I’ll need to do some practice equations and what not lol. Question though on the math equation where did you get the plug ins? I mean 83,3% and what not for the to go and such. I just want to make sure I’m a bit more aware of what I’m doing before I make a huge leap and start up a personal feel good phero lab lol.
i see you’ve graduated from the intro forums to other parts of this lovely world. ![]()
these number are for actual mixing using individual pheros and chemset supplies. for beginners, you’ll be ok with “layering” pheros. by this i mean just spray one on, then another. in essence that’s a 50/50 mix but you’re not actually “mixing” anything. when most people talk about their mixes in hit reports or something, they usually mean this latter type of mixing. steve and other advanced users do their own mixing, which is what this thread relates to.
take your time with it. i’m sure you’ve read up on how to find your sweet spot. find your sweet spot for each phero you have and then begin to layer, then find a sweet spot for the layer. it’s pretty basic: spray, observe/test, analyze. repeat the next day with a different dose. the math boils down from long decimals and percentages to one spray, two sprays, 4 sprays of this and 2 of that, etc.
you’ll get the hang of it.
also the 83.3% comes from the to-go having a smaller nozzle than the full size bottle, so it sprays just a bit less.
Ahh ok thanks. Yea I’m a naturally cautious person so it might take me a month to find a sweet spot on one phero lol. Try the same dosage for about 3 days or more then up it
Logging the results should be fun as I live in a college town lol so this should prove very very interesting.
I’m sure I’ll actually have fun with the math. That’s something I actually look forward to. At least I know where the 83.3% comes from ok. So basically it’s all about keeping your sweet spot ratio and coverup ratio the same while leaving enough room for things like cops to “bloom”. This sounds like fun ![]()
It is very fun!
Dons Mad Scientist Hat and contemplates spiking a few perfumes accidentally on purpose Mwuahahaha
…ahem I mean …This should prove a very “hardy” journey for my bf and myself
. Though I think I’ll leave the pheros alone until a bit later and gradually lol. ![]()
Passing through Hi …ott
ok this is confusing as crap i thought … wait what? this is hard stuff to learn i thought it was just spray and go but noooo everyone has to take it to the next level lol. im just messin though glad people are doing this but still hope i can figure it out
This whole mixing thing is a lot easier if you just make a table, as I have described here and here.
This is the same idea as using a spread sheet, suggested earlier in the thread.
Also see nbully’s Mix Calculator:
For some reason I can’t get the calculator to work. Some error on my computer won’t let me install it. The math isn’t hard its mostly simple computation. Theres
quite of a bit of factors in making a mix and factoring in the spray to volume ratio and also taking into account the concentration your diluting into the mix and how many pheromones your using which will also alter the math. Not to mention the higher concentration you buy the more likely your getting a less accurate number being at +5/-5 % could actually skew your exactness of what you might find to be your optimal range for any sort of pheromone. That’s why i understand that people prefer to take the long periods of layering potential aspects of there holy grail mix they wish to conceive in order to be absolutely certain about varying optimal and less than optimal as the sprays themselves are metered much much better in terms of testing rather than just making a pheromone soup out of whim.