Why do guys stare and do nothing?

[alpha_wolf]

@saraunne

LOL! Okay, I’m rolling up my sleeves.

What are some potential “signals”?
Sorry, I can’t tell you this. The signals were made to be secret so neither the guy or the gal would lose face.I hope you understand why I personally won’t tell you. All I CAN say, is it’s probably far simpler than a secret handshake, and is rotated on a seven day basis to prevent detection.

2) They’re doing it of their own accord, because they’re looking out for me. “You can do better,” they say, even if I like the guy just fine.

Let me ask you this: if you really liked the guy, would you deliberately hang around him despite the non approval from your friends?
Yes, I would. If I like the guy, what my friends think isn’t going to stop me. My mom, somewhat, given the circumstances, but not my friends. Usually, though, really good friends will know each other just as well as themselves, so it isn’t an issue.

3) They’re doing it of their own accord, for some other reason that really confuses me, and makes me wonder if I’m really a girl because I don’t understand them.

I get the feeling this happens a lot with women (out of jealousy). This is why PUAs tend to befriend the less attractive friend first so she doesnt cockblock with the HB8+. Excuse the language.
Hmm… yes.

“So I know how it feels, and it’s not fun.”
Is this a feeling that you feel yourself as you’re judging your friends/yourself or the signals you get from other people “judging” you, and how can you tell if they’re judging?
Being judged, judging myself, as well as me judging others. I rated on hotornot.com for a little while, and always felt dirty afterward. And really, you can tell when you’re being judged. Little comments amongst friends, or even at bars. I know the PUA stuff, so I know when a guy is chumming up a friend to get to me, or befriending me to get to a friend. I hate saying intuition, but this is true. I may think too much, but there’s also that feeling you get when you JUST KNOW.

I tend to sympathize with less “attractive” women who have great personalities: I really do. However, as a man I can’t control the direction of my sex drive towards a tight ass and hot face.
HAH!!! I can honestly say, you do NOT want to tell this to a woman. I doubt she would want your sympathy. This isn’t to be mean, but if I didn’t understand your context and what you were saying, it would be hard to stomach.

Nice. Very interesting read. Thanks Saraunne. I agree with you on not saying that to a woman - of course I don’t. I was just being honest with you on this forum.

I disagree with you on the aspect of being judged. Why do you feel dirty after ratings on hotornot? It takes a certain kind of person to be open to feedback from reality and be able to control it. This is not something to be ignored and I feel like a lot of people do and therefore never raise their attractiveness level. I still remember my first time at projet SF. One of the first things we were asked to do by a mPUA was, look at the guy next to you.. and be honest with him. If you were a woman, would you be attracted to him, why or why not? I personally learned a lot that day, and it wasn’t all easy to swallow.

[alpha_wolf]

I wasn’t sure if this was an insult or if you’re trying to say something about PUA stats and beliefs? Can you elaborate?

My initial read was that Lor you’re saying you’ve been in the field for a long time and that what I’m saying is total BS. lol. If this is the case we obviously have different beliefs because I have been out in the field doing hundreds of approaches.

And no, I don’t need to get laid. I have a pretty steady GF and I usually go out these days to wing or practice my skills.

-AW

@Lor

i watched , ive noted, i have other people’s experiences besides my own to compare with what you say (or in this case, you regurgitate because you need to follow someone. dont feel bad, some have to be followers if there are to be leaders) and i have to say, they are NOT congruent with the statistics PUA’s spew.
:o sorry.
guys desperate to get laid will say/do anything

[Lor]

@alpha_wolf

I wasn’t sure if this was an insult or if you’re trying to say something about PUA stats and beliefs? Can you elaborate?

My initial read was that Lor you’re saying you’ve been in the field for a long time and that what I’m saying is total BS. lol. If this is the case we obviously have different beliefs because I have been out in the field doing hundreds of approaches.

And no, I don’t need to get laid. I have a pretty steady GF and I usually go out these days to wing or practice my skills.

-AW

i meant self proclaimed PUAs in general, sorry if it hit a chord.

there are the ones who say “I AM A PUA,WORLD” and they like to have people follow them, and then there are those that require someone elses skills to get some.

labeling someone a GF suits the purpose of making it sound like your getting it regularly, but if you have to practice your skills while you are with her.

how long have you been in the field,alphawolf?

your beliefs are centered around going out and practicing something, where my beliefs never had an aganda,therefore its fairly nuetral.

actually, i rather preferred PUA company in the clubs,they would pay anything for me to grease the wheel.

[ash]

@alpha_wolf

I tend to sympathize with less “attractive” women who have great personalities: I really do. However, as a man I can’t control the direction of my sex drive towards a tight ass and hot face.

Personally I would be ashamed to say that I was not in control of myself, particularly as a man. Generally, I thought that self-control was one of the differentiating factors between humans and animals (google boar-mate). What you mean to say by this, perhaps, is that you don’t want to be in control of yourself because stopping and thinking that these “numbers” are actually people with individual lives and unique qualities that cannot be “summed” up so readily.

Furthermore, the whole problem with hotornot or similar rating sites is that they are not visited (i.e. rated) by normal people out there because normal people don’t really care. Instead you end up with a rating from people who are only obsessed with rating by number (which reminds me terribly much of paint by number, a system equally juvenile). Therefore, the rating received is of no real-world value as those people doing the rating all probably think they look far better than they do and that despite being a 3-4 on a (theoretical) women’s scale they deserve those so-called 10’s.

If someone has a GF, it is terribly inappropriate and disrespectful to be out looking at other girls, let alone picking up other girls. Ah, right, I forgot, animal, not man, primal, not rational, incapable of thinking of anyone else, only looking out for number one – I suggest you google NARCISSIST or NARCISSISM or NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER. Fix your personal issues before foisting them off on some helpless “hottie”.

Just my $0.02

[dolly]

@ash

Personally I would be ashamed to say that I was not in control of myself, particularly as a man. Generally, I thought that self-control was one of the differentiating factors between humans and animals (google boar-mate). What you mean to say by this, perhaps, is that you don’t want to be in control of yourself because stopping and thinking that these “numbers” are actually people with individual lives and unique qualities that cannot be “summed” up so readily.

Furthermore, the whole problem with hotornot or similar rating sites is that they are not visited (i.e. rated) by normal people out there because normal people don’t really care. Instead you end up with a rating from people who are only obsessed with rating by number (which reminds me terribly much of paint by number, a system equally juvenile). Therefore, the rating received is of no real-world value as those people doing the rating all probably think they look far better than they do and that despite being a 3-4 on a (theoretical) women’s scale they deserve those so-called 10’s.

If someone has a GF, it is terribly inappropriate and disrespectful to be out looking at other girls, let alone picking up other girls. Ah, right, I forgot, animal, not man, primal, not rational, incapable of thinking of anyone else, only looking out for number one – I suggest you google NARCISSIST or NARCISSISM or NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER. Fix your personal issues before foisting them off on some helpless “hottie”.

Just my $0.02

VERY WELL SAID, ASH!!! KUDOS TO YOU!

[Lor]

not only was it well said, but honestly it speaks to the ones who share the point rather than the ones who cannot hear it due to the fact that their scope is smaller.

i dont imply they are lesser/more than.
they percieve within a specific range where most people have a wider,more general scope.

it does feel more narcissisitic, and travels like a virus to any and all who are self conscious.

who isnt slightly self-conscious? i mean at one point or another, not perpetually.

its the perpetual self-doubters that require constant validation,not the occasional i think.

but hey, when a gal pal is getting way more attention than me, i tend to habitually think its her fun vibe and effervesence, rather than an outfit or facial features she has. i also give her more credit, i tend to hang with fun,lovable people who get off when everyone is having a good time

[Gone_with_the_Wind]

@alpha_wolf

Interesting thoughts Wind.

In my experience, The really hot girls I approach are always pretty nice to me, even if there is no attraction. Usually I will get a HB10s attention but get blown out by her friends much more often than her. Ironically, some of the less pretty ones are mean as hell

What’s your take?

-AW

My take is that sensitivity and physical beauty are pretty much independent variables. However, the effects of insensitivity can easily eclipse beauty and attractiveness in many people’s minds.

[m3turbo]

I think girls seriously underestimate how much ground they can make up by just being really fun to be around. Next time you see a guy you want to talk to just ask him if you know him from somewhere or something stupid like that. If you are wearing copulins he will probably take it from there . If he doesn’t he is not interested.

[alpha_wolf]

@Lor

i meant self proclaimed PUAs in general, sorry if it hit a chord.

there are the ones who say “I AM A PUA,WORLD” and they like to have people follow them, and then there are those that require someone elses skills to get some.

labeling someone a GF suits the purpose of making it sound like your getting it regularly, but if you have to practice your skills while you are with her.

how long have you been in the field,alphawolf?

your beliefs are centered around going out and practicing something, where my beliefs never had an aganda,therefore its fairly nuetral.

actually, i rather preferred PUA company in the clubs,they would pay anything for me to grease the wheel.

No chords struck. 8 months. True, my sex drive is less than before steady GFs, but I suppose I’ve been doing this for so long its just natural by now. Also, there’s always that thrill of meeting new people. And by practice I don’t mean trying to lay another girl. I mean, opening her, making a positive impression and just having the option to take it further if I wanted to. During the interaction, if I realize I would rather be with my GF then I know it was meant to be.

[alpha_wolf]

This will be my last post regarding this issue/thread, because there’s too much opposition for alternative views. It seems like everytime I try to breakdown a PUA’s view to a situation (I.e. Why do guys stare) I get flak on my reasoning and technique and no constructive criticism or thank yous, except maybe from Saranne.

I will stick to feedback on Pheros and make my contributions constructive on this forum.

However, I felt compelled to reply regarding Ash’s post:

1. If you’re not attracted to the conventional beauty of a “HB” that’s fine. I am just being honest about what I am attracted to, and I enjoy the fact that I admit it and go after what I want.

“control of yourself because stopping and thinking that these “numbers” are actually people with individual lives and unique qualities that cannot be “summed” up so readily.” - This is true. There’s more to the person that their looks. I respectfully agree. However why I am getting flak from everyone about ratings. Ratings are measurements we take to get a better grasp of reality. I can identify what I find attractive and I think the difference between PUAs and normal guys is that we try to understand the reason behind why we are attracted. The next straight guy who says he doesnt care about how a girl looks when he first meets her and that a playboy bunny in front of his view won’t startle him is full of BS.

2. “Furthermore, the whole problem with hotornot or similar rating sites is that they are not visited (i.e. rated) by normal people out there because normal people don’t really care”

lol. Come on. Read your own post again and get real. Not only are you showing your ignorance for what “normal people” should be like but you are insulting everyone who has ever picked a better photo to post of themselves on the web.

3. “If someone has a GF, it is terribly inappropriate and disrespectful to be out looking at other girls, let alone picking up other girls.”

I will ignore the narcissit comment because that is a low jab at a paradigm that you’re not willing to even consider because it differs from your conventional thinking of what a relationship should be like. Believe me, I know much more about Google than you do so Google yourself dude.

First, you are assuming that relationships are exclusive. Who says she can’t pickup other guys? Who says you have to do it in front of her? Who says she won’t enjoy picking up another girl with you/ Ever broke down how 3somes happen? Didn’t think so.

If I have a ‘girlfriend’, I never lie to her. If I give her a commitment to be exclusive, I will. But being open about game and developing your skills to be able to create positive interactions, with both women and men… there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.

You know that feeling you get when you’ve just met a girl, and half way through the interaction you realize you’d rather be with someone else?

It’s moments like that that makes life worth living.

Just my .05 cents.

-AW

@ash

Personally I would be ashamed to say that I was not in control of myself, particularly as a man. Generally, I thought that self-control was one of the differentiating factors between humans and animals (google boar-mate). What you mean to say by this, perhaps, is that you don’t want to be in control of yourself because stopping and thinking that these “numbers” are actually people with individual lives and unique qualities that cannot be “summed” up so readily.

Furthermore, the whole problem with hotornot or similar rating sites is that they are not visited (i.e. rated) by normal people out there because normal people don’t really care. Instead you end up with a rating from people who are only obsessed with rating by number (which reminds me terribly much of paint by number, a system equally juvenile). Therefore, the rating received is of no real-world value as those people doing the rating all probably think they look far better than they do and that despite being a 3-4 on a (theoretical) women’s scale they deserve those so-called 10’s.

If someone has a GF, it is terribly inappropriate and disrespectful to be out looking at other girls, let alone picking up other girls. Ah, right, I forgot, animal, not man, primal, not rational, incapable of thinking of anyone else, only looking out for number one – I suggest you google NARCISSIST or NARCISSISM or NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER. Fix your personal issues before foisting them off on some helpless “hottie”.

Just my $0.02

[Lor]

i only meant that i have been “in the field” for over 10 yrs.

if my guy thought i was testing the waters with other men to see if it was meant to be, he’d leave imediately.
so basically you are doing to women what pua’s percieve they do to men, get them interested so that you can can say “i wasnt interested,i was just seeing what you would do”.
im just trying to clarify what i hear,so i re-iterate it.

[dolly]

@Lor

if my guy thought i was testing the waters with other men to see if it was meant to be, he’d leave imediately.

My thoughts exactly. And, if my man did that, I would be equally offended.

I flirt, but mostly it is when my man is WITH me. When he isn’t with me, I may flirt a little, but it is never to the point of “opening someone up”, or finding out if “I could take it further”…I find that to be rude and obnoxious…I assume alpha wolf’s girlfriend would probably feel the same way if she knew.

[Lor]

@dolly

My thoughts exactly. And, if my man did that, I would be equally offended.

I flirt, but mostly it is when my man is WITH me. When he isn’t with me, I may flirt a little, but it is never to the point of “opening someone up”, or finding out if “I could take it further”…I find that to be rude and obnoxious…I assume alpha wolf’s girlfriend would probably feel the same way if she knew.

im glad you pointed out that flirting is a different animal all together.

its not game.

i flirt with mail carriers, the whole produce-department , the kind old guy that sits at the gate in my apartment complex…

when i see my cats in the window, i yell out, " hey handsomes ! "

flirting is using gestures to imply “i dig you,im diggin life” not “wanna get it on?”

maybe i just like the word, flirt.

[LaurieNY]

Ageed over here.

Flirting is harmless fun, but if you’re being calculated, it necessarily follows that you’re being manipulative.

It’s not cheating, per se, but it’s not nice or appropriate.

[examine]

how come when you’re at the club, a girl will linger around you, stare when you’re not looking, but do nothing.

[Lor]

@examine

how come when you’re at the club, a girl will linger around you, stare when you’re not looking, but do nothing.

more often than not its because she has no intention of it going anywhere. what you describe sounds like stalking though, not flirting.

[saraunne]

@Phoenix

What does it mean then when a girl you talk to the first time starts giggling and giggling… is it a very good sign?

I’m not sure I can answer on that one. For me personally, I laugh just in general. About anything and everything. I laugh out of nervousness, or because I think something is genuinely funny.

The giggle factor is literally just on seeing the guy how much he makes me involuntarily laugh (not in the bad way! As in the, here is something I just cannot contain!)

[examine]

nah. if it happened the whole night, i would call it stalking, but more or less its when they are seeking for someone to dance with.

id know because ive reacted on it, and usually girls will act surprised like “would you like dance” “oh hey, sure” or as you turn and walk toward, they smile.

its just annoying, having someone linger around, why not just freakin ask? its not like your asking to mate, or go out, your just asking to dance

[Phoenix]

@saraunne

The giggle factor is literally just on seeing the guy how much he makes me involuntarily laugh (not in the bad way! As in the, here is something I just cannot contain!)

Thanks! I know now it was very positive!

[mesmer]

@alpha_wolf

There’s an interesting post on MM about more beautiful women being treated better in life and thus have developed more naive/optimistic attitudes.

I’m not female but I have seen this phenomenon. In Highschool I was overweight but still presentable, symetrical face, straight proportional nose, nice eyes, but probably a 4/10.

In College I lost a lot of weight and still had a pretty decent face and I would say that put me in the 7.5-8/10 range.

Women and even men will treat you much differently if you look like an 8 instead of a 4. If you ask for help at a book store, the female clerk will take you to the book you are looking for instead of telling you which aisle it’s on. If you ask for a favor, you usually get it. It’s like the Beatles song, How does it feel to be one of the beautiful people?

It does tremendous things for your self confidence as well.

So why are women afraid to evaluate themselves? It will just let you know how hard you have to work on other things.If you are a 10, you might want to make yourself more approachable. If you are an 8 you might want to use instant honesty to filter out the jerks. If you are a 6, you might want to take away some of the guys that normally go after the 8’s. If you’re a 2 you might want to snag a less repulsive drunk at last call.

So if you’re a man hating 4 standing next to a happy and funny 7, you won’t have much luck. Even a man hating 8 standing next to a happy and funny 7 might have a hard time.

(I’m not trying to say that you are a man hater, just that attitude has an effect)

If you refuse to believe that quantifying your attractiveness is usefull, you just don’t understand men. If you ask a man to rate a woman he will take a few careful looks to confirm his impression but the instant we see you, we subconsciously find your place in the bell curve of hotness.

Some guys certainly have a distorted view of their own rating, but they still judge themselves against competing males.

If you are trying to attract men, you have to try to understand why men aproach your friend. Men are going to judge you, you need to judge yourself if you want to figure it out.