This is something I do not have an answer to, and hope to see opinions from women and men both.
Why it is very important to use Anone in the right time and with precision dose to get positive reaction from women, while seemingly with cops the relation between dose and reactions from men are regularly linear.
Is it only a biological factor, as in, women change around the month, or that their sense of smell is more precise and particular, while men are more unchanged around a month, and smell ‘in general terms’.
Or is there a cultural factor to it; one example may be, a partucular woman’s upbringing, culture, lets her make a choice of the suitable man within a certain window within the scale of 'rough - gentle" man, for lack of better wording.
Maybe other examples, reasons can shed some light.
I don’t really know what you mean Mak, but as I have said frequently, I do not understand men using cops to attract heterosexual women at ALL.
Better to wait for Cat’s response I suppose, as he does get reactions when HE uses them, but almost all the posts I have seen from ANY men getting reactions when they wear cops, state that it has been from bisexual women.
Cops products and concentrates were created for women to wear when attracting men, because we naturally produce copulins - men do not, in any way.
That is why as I explained to someone at LS recently, we get a HUGELY different reaction when we wear it to attract men, than a man does when he wears it to attract a woman..
I wear cops and would say it takes a MAXIMUM of 15 minutes before “The Man” is totally on heat. Literally every time. Without fail. It is the one pheromone I can wear daily around him and the reaction does not waver, or get less intense.
Women wearing cops raises (scientifically proven) the male’s testosterone level by between 120% and 140% within 20 minutes.
…men wearing cops..? No idea. Like I said, Cat would be your best bet here, and as for -none, I never wear it, so I have no input there whatsoever.
I don’t have ovulation or any “time of the month” to speak of, as I am on Depo, so it makes no odds to me what time of the week, month or year it is, as I am never any different in terms of “levels.”
I think that while cops worn by women may seem to produce a reliable, non-dose-dependent response in men judging by reports given on the forum, these reports are coming from relatively few women. Personally, I have not found Essence of Woman, for example, to be effective with my husband in doses as high as a single drop (and this is after drydown, with or without coverscent). He’s got a pretty acute sniffer and I can see his immediate response and it’s not positive. It works better on him if it’s totally under his radar, and for him, that means considerably less than a single drop, hours into drydown. (He does find the real thing, i.e., biological copulins, arousing, but EW isn’t ringing his bells). He responds better to PCC and SOE/w (also containing cops, but a different cops formula) in small doses.
I don’t have any answers for you about the challenge of dosing androstenone… timing in a woman’s cycle, her familiarity with the wearer’s original pheromone profile, and as you mention, her preference on the “rough-gentle” continuum all probably play a part.
I don’t think the role of copulins for women is the same as the role of androstenone for men. I remember reading a section in a book called Anatomy of Love that dealt with the role of pheromones in the animal world. To sum it up, copulins are supposedly secreted more heavily during ovulation to directly arouse and attract males at a prime stage in fertility. The book cites an example of an ovulating female ape of some sort (I forget) literally propping her rear end upon a males nose to initiate intercourse, which they promplty did. Obviously things aren’t so cut and dry when applied to human behavior, but it does shed some light into how copulins work.
That being said, Androstenone operates in a completely different way. I, for one, don’t think that Androstenone directly arouses women, or at least that isn’t the real role of it. Androstenone seems to project a sense of aggression and power, which women are attracted to at varying degrees. I remember Michael mentioning to me in a PM once that androstenone is an indicator of physical prowess, which of course, women are attracted to. When we look at androstenone from that perspective you then have to consider what degree of that ‘liquid aggression’ is appropriate and in what context? A more aggressive type of image is beneficial to some extent, but just as acting too aggressive in the wrong context can put people off, wearing too much none (and coming off too aggressively) can intimidate people, and/or put them off.
Now when it comes to women, every guy knows that he has to approach and advance things at varying levels, depending on the woman, and depending on the context (timing). There are times when its more beneficial to be highly aggressive with a woman as she’s attracted to this, and times when being that aggressive could actually put her off. The same concept applies to androstenone I think. There are times when a high androstenone signal would be attractive, however it could also go the other way in the wrong context. You also have to consider the fact that different women have different prefences in men and male behaviors - this is where age, culture and ethnicity could play a part. If we apply that concept, we could say that an attractive dosage of none to one woman, could spell OD to another, depending on individual male prefences as well as biological factors.
I certainly think there’s a sort of sweet spot with androstenone that just sort of chimes a positive vibe for you more universally. When you’re in that spot, you seem to be getting attention from women all around you and its lovely. but man is it hard to replicate those effects time and time again.
Sigma, your response regarding androstenone and its relationship to aggression makes me wonder - again - how much of the effect of pheromones derives from their effects on the wearer. Maybe the 'none wearer, even if he doesn’t see himself as behaving any differently, undergoes some subtle change in his stance, facial expressions, the way he holds himself, eye contact, tone of voice, decisiveness, reaction time, etc. If the wearer resisted or for whatever reason didn’t exhibit behaviors that matched his phero-aura,possibly the incongruity would be disturbing, confusing or simply unappealing to the ‘target.’ Just like cops need to be emanating from an attractive woman to make sense to a man biologically, so too 'none needs to be radiating off an alpha-behaving male in order for it to work on a woman.
I haven’t experimented with 'none much with this topic in mind (I’ve mainly worn it in sex mixes) but I certainly see this self-effect phenomenon in myself when I wear 'nol.
I really think the effects the mones have on the user is equally as beneficial as the effects they have on others. The pheromones themselves are only part of the overall impression that you make on others while you wear them - the way you look and carry yourself will make a more immediate impression. Now pheromones can’t change the way you look (thats up to you), but they can have subtle effects in how you act and carry yourself.
Typically a pheromone will make you feel and act in a way that aligns with the phero-signal you’re projecting, thus ehancing the overall effect, but this isn’t always the case. Congruency between pheromone signals and how you look and carry yourself is highly important, and I too think that if there’s any miscongruency there, it won’t sit well with others.
A314 is a product that derives a lot of its success from the way it makes the user feel and act. While wearing A314, theres a noticable transformation in the way I talk, walk…the way I look at people when they speak to me etc. The overall effect is a complete command of myself and my image, and a perception of higher value from others. A314 is also, however, a product that doesn’t work well for some, or takes a while to figure out. I think a lot of it has to do with miscongruency between the phero-signal and the mannerisms of the wearer, or misguided expectations about how its supposed to work. If you can’t carry yourself in a manner that gives material worth to the artificial phero-aura you emit, it won’t sit well with others, if it registers at all.
I honestly think we take the effect that pheromones have on ourselves, as the wearer, for granted…especially with long term use. I don’t know if anyone is familiar with the theory of autosuggestion but the idea behind it is that if you train your mind to think a certain way about yourself, you’ll begin to scribe these thoughts into beliefs. These beliefs are eventually reflected in your outlook and how you carry yourself until they become a material actuality. The same concept can be applied to pheromone use I think. If you feel more confident or attractive, you’ll act and carry yourself in a more confident and attractive manner, and even if its kind of superficial at first, you can actually become more confident and attractive.
I’ve grown so accustomed to using mones, that in the long run I’ve made a habit of carrying myself in a certain way, and being regarded by others in a certain light, with our without mones. The results we see(both on ourselves and others) might seem obscure and out of the ordinary at first, but after awhile they start to feel very second nature. I’ve even seen pheromone type ‘hits’ on days when I wasn’t wearing a drop of pheromones. A lot of it has to do with how I now carry myself after using mones for over 2 years. It really is a transmutation of of artificial effects into material actualities.
I think comparing ANone to Copulins is like comparing apples to oranges.
And how do we know that the story is finished and Androstenone is the best ‘sexual pheromone’ and we should just make do with it and learn to be so careful with doses, etc. Just because it invites powerful and aggressive reactions doesn’t mean it is the best for that. I think the fact that it has been around since synthetic pheromones have been made (25 years or whatever) is the reason why we think of it as the ‘male version of Copulins’.
How do we know that none of the ‘putatives’ (or a combination of putatives) are going to be an even better attractant to women even during ovulation than Anone without having to be so very careful as with ANone dosages? It might turn out that with this combination of ‘putatives’ we dont have to bother with ‘real’ negatives at whatever dosage level (already P79, 83, LaCroy secret ingredients etc. come to mind) and we may have a virtual ‘ANone’ replacement.
That is my point. You do get that almost consistant, predictable reaction when you wear cops, but when I wear Anone I do get a variety or reactions. Question is, why is that.
That is one idea, maybe you’d react reasonably consistantly if exposed to Anone ? ..
I think what the guys have said here is correct, Mak. Trying to compare cops with -none, is like trying to compare Britney Spears with Stevie Nicks - they just are not the same animal at all!
The results I get with EW, Cleo and LAM (as long as I have added an entire bottle of EW to it) are not just ALMOST consistent, they ARE totally consistent, and they never deviate.
Incidentally, “The Man” never reacts to me wearing PCC unless I have added a whole bottle of EW to it, and SOE/W has never helped me sexually. It always just makes the people I am with talk..too bloody much…
Not the way they do if I wear IH of course, which is when they spill their guts - no, I am talking about almost inane, babbling chatter.
..I loathe that… >_<
Many women swear by SOE/W, but it’s not one I use except for adding a couple of mls to a symphonic mix, just to see how it alters things.
Carrie, you answered a question I had for a long time, whether cops had an OD limit to it … makes lots of sense that there is one, even considering the fact that it is probably different from a person to another.
The following is my own opinion from experience.
For the comments you and Sigma made about Pheromones (I’ll single Anone here) affecting the wearer behaviour and how they carry themselves, becoming an attitude, and reflecting power, strength and even agression, which can be effective in creating sexual tension, I agree with all of that, but with a catch;
It is not always just that. Anone has more to it, a sexual spark, in addition to the power and strength sides mentioned above. I used it for quite a while, and I can tell with reasonable confidence. In a specific time and situation, with say a specific woman and dosage, it acts as a direct sexual attractant and enhancer.
Well if there is an od point, then Dolly and I sure haven’t hit it, as with EW we wear it straight up, applied directly to the skin, and then covered after 10-15 minutes with a coverscent.
I typically wear at least 6 drops, and sometimes more if I’m wearing a short skirt, as then I put a drop behind each knee too.
But actually, don’t hate it that much. I’ve been doing reasonably well with some Anone products, in terms of consistancy.
I found out some time ago that I’m better off with simpler mixes, or a primary product at a time even, which is an approach I found working well for me.
I just need about 6 more years of experimentation.
About that sexual spark - it may well be that 'none has a purely sexual element to it apart from its association with power/prowess/aggression. But part of that spark might also be attributable to 'none increasing a woman’s aggressiveness as well. I wonder. I include it in sex mixes sometimes and it does seem to have that effect on me under those conditions, compared to when I leave it out. What do you think, when you wear 'none in sexual situations, is the woman more passively responsive, or …?
re: the OD limit on cops - possibly my OD limit is lower because I do ovulate (no hormonal birth control methods for years now) so I am producing more cops naturally … and my current partner has an exquisitely sensitive nose (to the point that he wishes it were not so, especially in regard to smoke and perfume) and can tell the difference between the natural cops and the chemical enhancers, so I try to keep their use very subtle. Other men who are not as sensitive would no doubt have a higher tolerance.
Well I will go with you Carrie, on the fact it may be because I am on Deo, but as for nose sensitivity, I have frequently alluded in threads throughout the forums as to just HOW acute “The Man’s” sense of smell is. Honestly, he is unbelievable, yet he never thinks anything smells off when I wear cops. He has no idea I use pheromones in the first place though, and that is the way it will stay.
I never see him until I have applied the coverscent though, at least ten minutes after I apply the EW straight up, and by then it’s just as Dolly always says - a mildly fruity scent that blends seamlessly into my coverscent choices.
Carrie, I keep thinking and going back when I read the comments, or as you just asked.
In my mind there is no question it is sexual, among other things yes, but it is sexual. It is more than often, and I’ve seen all the other reactions, so I can isolate them.
Usually a very small amount, and the reaction is not because it gets me more intense, aggressive, or that the woman gets ‘aggressively’ sexual, or more confident to state her desires, or increasingly submissive to a powerful man. It is because her moods mellow, she thinks sexy, and acts that way.
I agree, actually. I think that most users are too attached to the notion that androstenone is strictly the sexual type of pheromone, and that everything else is simply ‘friendly’ or even ‘wussy’. You’ll here this far more often on the LS forums, where everyone is bathing in NPA and PI and complaining of not seeing results. I’ve argued for this over there, but it usually falls on deaf ears.
The negative effects of anone can make it a catch 22, as I’ve noticed that the good hits usually at doses that bring out a lot of the negative effects. Anone is hardly appropriate for most situations, as its too aggressive of a pheromone. My use of it has decreased considerably over the past couple of months, though I still use it when the time is right.
The negative effects of anone can halt the actual progression of attraction. It creates DIHL type responses and what not, but I don’t think we should base the effectiveness of a pheromone on the number of awkward glances we get…thats all superficial to me, and a lot of time up to the interpretation of the user. I’m all about real results, and real progress. If a pheromone has the tendancy to close people off, as anone often does, its hard to make any real progress.
I’m with you Ail. I havent reached an OD point yet with EW, LAM or Cleo. Copulins really work great for me and they drive my husband out of his mind with lust. I’ve actually made a little copulin bomb mix. I’ve added EW,LAM, Cleo and PCC in a small bottle. It works great. I’m always on the lookout for more products with Cops in them.
I’ve been so tempted to buy the Dirty oil for men which has Androstenone and copulins but I’m not sure what hits to expect. If there’s a Dominatrix (sp)effect to wearing it then I’m game. I’m still thinking about it though.
Yay! A new Countess mix for me to try. Good for All Hallows, I should think..heheh.. ^_~
Y’know that is about the only mixture I have NOT bottled - silly me.
Around how much of each are you adding? I may make up a 10 ml roller-ball bottle like that, adding an excellent dupe oil of Pink Sugar that I have, to the mix.
I wanna make that now!
I certainly have added EW (whole bottle) to the whole bottle of chocolatini-scented LAM, and that gives GREAT results, so this should literally BE a cops timebomb!
Thanks Countess. I eagerly await your mixology instructions.
Dirty..I have never considered, as I wear nothing containing -none, but it could well give the effect you described.
Ail, I’ve been using an old Cleo bottle to hold my mix. I’m mixing 10 drops of Cleo, LAM and PCC and 3 drops of EW and a combo of Sweet Pea and Flowers essential oil, usually 5 or 10 drops each. This combo works really well. I’m actually thinking about getting the Pre-Release Dirty oil and adding a few drops to this mix. Just for the times when I want to come off as extremely sexually aggressive.
I cannot wait for All Hallows eve my witches outfit is always at the ready.
