Why the phrase "be more confident" by itself is bad advice

Lounge
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I’ve been a member of this site for a few months by now. I noticed a lot of posts from people who sounded like they have low self-esteem. I also noticed a lot of responses telling those people to be more confident. This really hit home for me. In high school and early college, I had a problem of girls not liking me, and when I told my friends, they told me, like the thread title says, to be more confident. I would have preferred if they said “sorry, I wouldn’t know what to tell you”. At best, this advice seemed misguided, and at worst, downright ridiculous. I’m not saying that everyone thinks like me, but keep reading to see what I mean.

Confidence basically means being OK with yourself as a person. However, it comes from good experiences, including girls showing romantic interest. Good experiences raise it, bad experiences lower it. Similarly, a lack of good experiences lowers it, a lack of bad experiences keeps it stable. So, asking someone who can’t get girls to be more confident is like asking him to go against human nature. After all, how exactly do you be more confident when the odds are telling you the opposite? What actions are you supposed to take? It’s a no-go. In the end, a person gets confused, because not only is he unable to get a girl to like him, he’s also unable to follow his friends’ advice to be more confident. Guess what? Self-esteem spirals down even farther, despite the best intentions to help.

Someone might point out: “it’s all in the attitude”. Yes, that’s true. But in order to have a good attitude, it must somehow come from good experiences. It’s virtually impossible to just magically “be more confident” or “have a better attitude” when you’re getting rejected. As a personal example in the first paragraph, what I was asking for were instructions about how to acquire good experiences that’ll lead to a good attitude. But without them, a good experience is very elusive, which leads to even more frustration.

Ranting aside, there is a better way of giving advice to someone with low self-esteem. Ask the person to name at least a few things he’s confident about. It could be his creative writing skills, his knowledge about trains, his chess playing, etc. Then ask the person what he’s not confident about; it could be asking for phone numbers. Finally tell him to go to environments where he can use whatever he’s confident about, and not do things he’s not confident about. For instance, such as person can go to a poetry reading, and not ask for any phone numbers. Instead, just read a nicely written poem, and possibly get a few compliments for it. A good conversation that may come out of it may give him just enough of an ego boost to actually ask for a phone number next time.

Finally, there are always pheromones from this site. Yeah, I know: it’s 90% person and 10% pheromones. But that 10% may be just enough of a boost to prevent someone’s self-esteem from spiraling downward. The first time they use it, they may get hits that will inspire them to actually improve their attitude. And the person will actually “be more confident”. But again, it’ll come from a good experience, not magically changing one’s feelings.

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This aughta win you some friends, TOTW votes, rep points and the $50 GC I just sent you. A real winning post

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Confidence is the willingness to reach out to others and give them love, affection, and companionship…even though they are neurotic and socially inept…even when their flaws bruise your ego.

At least that’s how I look at it.

And I have yet to see anything much that contradicts that view of the situation.

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your right.

learning a different perpective isnt as easy as “just be confident”.

i have to say however,
that the ones telling others to be confident have their hearts in the right place.

it would be easier to not respond at all.

its possible that those who are giving that advice began being more confident with the intention of wanting to be more confident,
more than they wanted to notice reasons for not being confident.

this is prolly what those giving that advice were trying to say.

def a nomination from me :slight_smile:

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Hmm, that’s an usual definition. I see confidence as believing I can basically nail it. E.g., I’m confidence this message will be posted when I hit “submit.” In other words, it’s the the state or quality of being certain about something. It’s not tied to anything in particular nor is necessarily imbued with emotion.

Overall personal confidence is built with hard work and study and that state of being transfers to all aspects of your life. For example, serious study of performing arts tends to build up confidence and self-esteem. And it is not unusual to soon see confidence your performing abilities invade other aspects of your personal and professional life. In fact, as a teacher I see this everyday. Similar benefits can also flow from serious involvement in sports, academics, etc.

Basically if you’re not nailing your personal life, you need to get your ass in gear and work hard and and make something of yourself. Then you’ll have something to feel confident about.

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I’m well aware that those who give the “be more confident” have their hearts in the right place. But unfortunately, it doesn’t always work out this way. So mutual understanding is very important in this case. The person hearing “be more confident” should understand that it’s not meant to make fun of him, and the person saying it should understand that this phrase might be too abstract to be helpful.

Everyone, thanks for the responses and the nominations so far. By the way, Steve, did you send the GC via e-mail or via PM?

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Confidence is gained over time not just obtained. I used to be extremely shy due to how I thought I looked but I gained my confidence through trial and error. I started gaining confidence by chatting up girls in the bar that were in the same boat as me (ugly duckling amongst pretty friends). I looked at is from a career angle you have to start in the mailroom before you get that big cushy office. So I started spending time with a lot of 2’s, they made me feel better about myself, helped me to learn how to talk to women etc. I am up to 8’s I would say now. Do i still strike out and get a reality check every once and a while, SURE! but for every 1 that says no there will be 2 that say yes.

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Attractor I could kiss you (I won’t but I could). I’ve just lost out on a chance with a girl I like due to turning into a gibbering wreck whenever I talk to her. Every piece of advice I got was to “man up” to “just go for it” and yes to "be more confident.

The thing is that’s a bit like saying to someone who can’t play the guitar to “just play it” and that just leads to discord and possibly bleeding eardrums. I know I need to find self worth and your point of listing the things you’re good at is a valid point and that’s something I can work on. Knowing I’m a good creative writer (which I am btw) is no boon to me when it comes to rolling up to that lovely lady in the corner (the one with the killer legs, no not that one, the other one.) and making contact nor will it aid me in allowing myself to be more emotionally vulnerable (Yes I am male in case you’re wondering.)

Perhaps there are things we can do though to help with the confidence thing. Maybe signing up for activities that are outside our comfort zone might be more transferable to the situations we’re talking about. The petry thing is a case in point. Perhaps getting up in front of people and reading poetry, joining a debate club, am dram (as Geoggi mentions or, dare I say it, karaoke might help us to face our fears, to feel the fear and do it anyway as they say.

Sorry if I’m repeating what you’ve said a little here but I think it bears repeating.

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becoming confident is a goal in itself not a means to reach other goals (for example being successful with women)
If i would say “hey dude, just be more confident” its the same as if i would say
“hey dude, just be more successful and you can have what you want”
as a goal it can be reached but it’s not that easy… its hard work first..

you have to think about it that way: not being confident has to do a lot with fears (maybe due to past experiences or imagination what could happen)
you can’t say i become more confident by facing/fighting your inconfidence but you can become more confident by facing/fighting your fears…

it’s is a process that takes some time…but by facing your fears you become more confident step by step if you think about it the right way: even if you don’t get rid of your fears immediately and have a bad experience by facing your fears you shouldn’t think you failed again and be discouraged but you should be proud that even if you had the fear you could fail (this time) you tried it anyway…and that the experience likely wasn’t that bad as you imagined (if it doen’t work your way at first)

as soon as failures don’t mean that much to you anymore you become more at ease and comfortable with difficult situations and you will slowly grow confidence…when your ability to take social risks increases your chance to succeed also increases.
Getting confidence is challenging your mind what you think you are capable of. With women it includes failure and rejection as well as feeling uncomfortable and getting upset…

being confident in other areas of life certainly helps with overall confidence but to get really good in a certain area of your life you have to work hard there…

its practice, practice, practice…it can be done…thats what i can say from my own experience…

(i am not confident now because i only had good experiences in the past…the opposite was the case…at first i had more bad than good experiences but by working on it i now have more good than bad experiences and as consequence bad experiences don’t influence my overall self-image anymore)

i just came up with another example: its like learning to play a instrument… people who are good at playing a instrument don’t became good at it because they always had good experiences… they had to try hard first to hit a tone and play a simpe song…many frustrations included…when they were able to play more difficult songs they gained confidence that they could handle even more difficult songs, because at that point they had some good experiences by learning and knowing what they are able to they are not that frustrated if they can’t handle a even more difficult song… at some point they may see that they reached their limit but nevertheless they can be proud of what they reached…
if you are good at painting you might have more confidence that you could learn that instrument, too and less frustration potential, but having confidence with painting doesn’t mean that you will automatically will gain confidence in learning the instrument…

just my two cents (btw. Steve - where is my GC :stuck_out_tongue:)

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Wow! I pretty much disagree with nearly every point you assert in your post…

They are your friends and they offered advice when you asked them. That you didn’t know how to proceed with what they told you isn’t their fault. Maybe you should have asked them to clarify what they meant rather than calling them ridiculous for trying to help you.

OK, you lost me at the second sentence. Confidence is a state of mind, and only one person can give you it or take it away. And that person is Melvin Chompsky. OK, there is another person, that’s you. Seriously, no girl can take your confidence unless you choose to give her that power. Confidence comes from within, regardless of what anyone else thinks. If Thomas Edison thought the way you do, we’d be reading this forum under gerbil power. There are a lot of people who succeeded when everyone around them was laughing at them and insulting them. They perservered without any “good experiences.”

And by the way, as I see it, the only “bad experience” is the one you don’t learn something from.

This downward spiral is self-created. If you took as much time to evaluate your own self-worth as you spent thinking about how much value someone else (who’s values you don’t really know) places on you, that might be a good start.

You can only have a good attitude only if good things happen to you? (Robbie slaps forehead!) I’ve got news for ya, life is what ya make of it-- good and bad. It’s not what you’re given in life that makes you who you are, its how you deal with it. In your brain. In your actions.

You know what builds confidence? Taking risks. Doing something you didn’t think you could do. Changing. Evolving. Learning. Try it, you’ll see what I mean. No further explanation is needed.

Your advice is, well, your heart is in the right place, but… you’re still seeking the approval of others to validate who you are. That can only get you so far and then you’re right back where you were, because you still haven’t addressed the real problem, your inner self.

If you really wanna fix your self confidence problem, you’ve gotta take an honest inventory of who you are. Write down a list of the areas in which you want to improve (appearance, emotional concerns, interests) and make a plan of attack for addressing these concerns-- then do it. Just doing something/anything to move forward in your life will add to your confidence levels. Add to your social circle, explore hobbies, meet people, live life for you.

BZZT! Wrongo, my friend. Pheromones enhance what ya got, and that comes through if you have a shitty attitude too. Figure out what’s good about you and encourage it within yourself-- enhance it, figure out what’s bad/hurting you and change it. Stop looking for validation from someone else. Give that validation to yourself.

Stop complaining about the weather!

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Attractor,

I agree with you that “be more confident” is not constructive advice, most one line pieces of advice are too vague to achieve anything. Also, I agree that telling someone to be more confident achieves very little if the target of the advice is not familiar with what being a confident person entails. Confidence is not something that can be turned on and off like a switch. Perhaps some better advice would be to tell the person to behave in a more confident manner. Not to change their state of mind, but to change their behavior. Change their approach to the challenging situation which they are facing.

I find this thread very informative, but speaking from a point of view of someone with fluctuating self-esteem and confidence, I think some of these terms are becoming blurred and being used interchangeably. I think self-esteem is different from confidence which in turn is different from social anxiety issues. In my view, and I’m no psychologist, building self-esteem leads to an increase in confidence. Using your example, an individual will see her self-esteem rise as her interactions with the opposite sex improve, if successful interactions with the opposite sex is how they measure their self worth. However, I don’t think the opposite is the case. Sticking with the current example, confident individuals don’t necessarily experience a decrease in self-esteem when rejected by a member of the opposite sex. In many stories in this forum, whether successes or failures, relate the situation where a guy will try to open up several girls, and often is rejected, before enjoying some success. Every rejection bruises the ego, but whether it is perseverance, or a thick skin, or some liquid courage, the mating game goes one. Sometimes with success, often with failure. Bruising of the ego is experienced by everyone, but it does not necessarily correlate to a decrease in self-worth.
Finally, I’ve found myself in many situations of comfort, where my familiarity with the situation gives me a sense of confidence, in class for example, but my anxiety and fear of rejection turn me into a blabbering idiot when it comes to approaching girls. I haven’t read the mystery method or books like it, but what I gather from what little I know, is that they teach you to approach a situation from a different point of view. Acknowledging that the outside world is difficult and competitive, and learning to approach life interactions from the point of view of an alpha male instead of a victim. I myself have found that Steve’s blog, and some of his links, provide useful advice for achieving this goal. They teach you to approach situations from a different point of view, to not show the underlying fear and confront life with a positive attitude.

Just my way of looking at things, I still have a lot improve in my personal life. A314, IG, and MX292, among others have been great at helping me change my outlook in specific situations, but have also led me to carry myself with more confidence in all aspects of my life. There’s still much more work for me to do, but the progress is encouraging.

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my thoughts exactly friend. everyone is entitled to their opinion afterall.

what you think is the most important factor, in fact pheros aside, the most signifiacnt factor; getting girls in a given situation or not, is self confidence (belief) luckily for me, it was very much instilled from an early age by my parents.

triple thumbs up for this reply amigo

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To address the past few responses, there is a concept I that I like to call “baseline level of confidence” (BLC) coming into play here. Some things are bound to affect your confidence, but more likely than not, it’s going to fluctuate around your BLC.

Now, having a good BLC is what’s important. And I still think that it comes from good experiences. Thomas Edison probaby got shot down a number of times, but by the time he got into inventing, he already found some marginal acceptance in the scientific community. It was marginal, but acceptance nonetheless, and that was sufficient to inspire him to contunue. So, it raised his BLC just enough to keep him in the field. Yes, confidence and perseverance did play a role in Edison’s case, but if absolutely no one accepted him, someone else with higher self-worth would have invented the light bulb. Or as an alternative, we might have gone straight to those compact flourescent bulbs. This shows there’s always at least a small amount of external validation involved.

In the end, to reiterate Chasm’s point, perhaps “act more confident”, rather than “be more confident” would have been better advice. It’s a lot easier to change one’s actions than one’s state of mind. And the “how to be confident” advice regarding actions is clear and straightforward, as opposed to the New Age “positive thinking” stuff. But how to act more confident? Think of all the things about yourself that you’re not confident about; make a written list if you have to. Now think about what’s missing from the list. That’s what you’re confident about. Now, go out, and do those things. By being able to do them and seeing good results, you’ll start thinking better of yourself, and consequently, increase your BLC. And over time, things will gradually disappear from the list, giving you more options in what to do next.

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You keep trying to justify your own negative state of being. I love how you bind your own self worth in the valued denominations that others bestow upon you. Your attitude and outlook on self perception is complete shit. What do those 100 people really know about you? What do they make this “value” upon?

Money? Looks? Piles of Possessions? Status? Ability to attract the opposite sex? Superficial bullshit? Or your complete shitty outlook on life? I’ve no qualms with tearing you down, as you believe everything negative thrown at you becomes truth. Your poisonous beliefs only belong to yourself. You let others negativity become your own as well. You empower them as you continually devalue yourself.

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I said nothing about Confidence magically appearing. Some people don’t give what they do a second thought, they just just go for their goals without judging themselves. They are naturally confident about what they can accomplish. For others, confidence doesn’t come naturally and effort is needed to overcome their programming. Its work, but worth the effort.

If you program yourself all day long about how low your self-confidence is, what is your expected outcome? You succeeded in your programming, whether you realize it or not! You just picked the wrong programming.

We each decide how long we stay in any prison we make for ourselves, we have the keys to leave when* we** choose*. We can either use the time we have to mentally masturbate over terms like BLwhatever in our cell or use the time to actually change and enjoy a fulfilling life.

Its easy to see where your head is here. You are quick to dismiss a working concept and revert your thinking back to suit your version of reality*. Good luck with that. *Its your time to burn.

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Interesting that you chose to actually neg rep me…

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I understand where you’re coming from, and thanks for clarifying. I never said anything about programming myself with bad confidence. What I said was it’s important to have good experiences on a regular basis. The “work” you’re referring to is how I interpreted the statement. And in the end, the result is totally worth it. However, if someone always gets rejected in clubs, then that may not be a good environment to spend time in regularly. It’s best to build confidence in other ways first, such as working out, taking public speaking classes, reading instruction books, etc. Then, when the person feel like he learned enough skills to approach girl clubs, then it’s a good time to go there. Sorry for any confusion due to misunderstanding.

Whoa! Did you overdose on Instant Jerk or something? You completely misinterpreted everything I said. It wasn’t even about other people’s opinions, not even 100 people’s; it was about experiences a person himself goes through and their effect on confidence. Next time, read the whole thing before assuming, because you know what happens when you assume.

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It was an error in judgment on my part, and I’m sorry. I guess confidence is a more sensitive topic than I thought; there are clearly strong opinions about it. I was talking about experiences, and it got misinterpreted. Programming yourself is one thing, but experiences still have some effect on the programming. Neither did I say anything about my confidence or lack thereof. What I did say is that a person needs to get as many good experiences as they can, to balance out anything bad that comes their way. How they get those experiences is up to them, and that’s where knowing you can do it comes into play.

Well, if it’s any consolation, philosophers throughout history argued and bickered all the time. This is just a modern manifestation of it. Now I should probably go to the gym and work out, so I can build my confidence.

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Whistles. Soooooooo, how about that there economy? :roll_eyes:

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Wow, all kidding aside all this heat just because each person has a different opinion regarding confidence? Now I’m not trying to take any sides, or whatever but I have to agree with Robbie. Just take action without fear, and if something shitty happens because of that action who cares? At least you’ll learn something out of that incident, and in return you’ll know not to do it again. Although thinking ahead of time regarding consequences obviously is also a good thing.

“The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.” - Albert Einstein.

A successful person is one who can lay a firm foundation with the bricks that others throw at him or her. ~ David Brinkley

Whether you think you can or think you can’t - you are right. ~ Henry Ford

If you hear a voice within you say “you cannot paint,” then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced. ~ Vincent Van Gogh