Why the phrase "be more confident" by itself is bad advice

Lounge
122

I kinda hate to bring this up but I didnt back either of you up nor did I say anyone one was wrong or right. I never took a side. Its that postive energy I was telling you about in this thread. I just used it to influence the situation to a more positive light. You should read up on the subject its really quite amazing and not just for witches anymore. Who says the dark can not create the light LOL :wink:

Oh boy let me run and get my paddle :smiley:

Me to, dont ask because I aint telling. Just as I wouldnt tell anyone else who you are.

Tisha

123

Le sigh.

I haven’t been reading the last posts because I like to think it just got too out of hand, I mean I can understand being pretty upset for looking like a bad guy (if any) just for possibly innocently thinking and wondering about an opinion you have/had. When it’s probably just a lot easier for everyone to just forgive and forget (especially over different opinions.) Humans were meant to be unique and for each one of us to have their own ways of thinking, so clashing opinions were/are bound to happen. But it doesn’t mean we all can’t make up, and just flick off thinking differently off of your shoulder for the sake of just getting along. Especially on this board, were everyone treats each other like a family/friend (especially commonly seen with the veteran pherotalkers which is a very sweet thing to see.)

This is one of the reasons why I like this place, just for that fact so it kind of sucks seeing everyone disagreeing and possibly getting just a tad bit angry for not being understood. So how about it guys? A try at peace? :smiley:

124

Its OK to disagree and even get a little passionate about it. We are people with differing opinions. Take a breather my friend and spray yourself with Ishine. :stuck_out_tongue:

I love this thread for the very reason of everyone disagreeing. Not because I am a sadist, yet because it does encourage debate and views that might not be the same as ours. We can learn from others opinions especially when they do disagree with ours.:wink:

Sometimes when people are so passionate about about an opinion they can get a bit “angry.” Good times my friend, this is a special tribute just for you.

125

Thanks for the neg reps and your comment-- saw this after having a long conversation with Steve, you can ask him what animosity I have.

(Edit: I just saw that Diane999 also neg repped me too. Wow…)

Let me repeat, as I understand it, as you used the rep system, that is an abuse.

Pages and pages of poisonous bile.

You win. I’m gone.

126

Ha, ha must be the hippie in me Steve!

127

Maybe we could all start a new debate in the Lounge comparing and contrasting confidence with protectionism.

I think these two things are being abundantly contrasted here in this thread. It would be good, imo, to look at these issues from a fresh perspective, from a little distance, and see what the differences in the two are, and what the consequences of each is.

Diane

128

Not gone from the forum completely though, right? :confused:

129

That’s not a bad idea. Heck, it probably wouldn’t hurt to move this thread to the Lounge, and leave the Men’s Discussion forum for questions and comments about pheromones. This way, this thread won’t be in everyone’s faces all the time, and we all can cool off. Perhaps none of us should have reacted as strongly as we did; then all this drama could have been avoided. We tried to have a debate, but ended up doing a PheromoneTalk version of Lord of the Flies.

130

It is a human nature.

But, I wouldn’t equate this thread with Lord of the Flies. It isn’t that heavy, or that fundamental. It only seems to be that way to the people who feel defensive and are protecting themselves or those they love by going on the offensive.

To the rest of us, it is more like… “So, what exactly is the big deal? Did someone say they didn’t like the way someone worded something? Did someone say they didn’t like the way someone corrected or edited something?” :stuck_out_tongue:

It really isn’t life or death, though it may feel that way to some. Next week no one will even remember this thread.

Diane

131

I’ve already had people contacting me wanting to defend me, if that’s in your mind, please don’t. There is too much negative reaction in this thread as it is.

Back to the thread…

132

Well, I’m neutral but I just hope you don’t leave the forum permanently. Wouldn’t be worth it, well at least that’s what I think. :confused:

133

Yeah, well, good luck with that.

I swore on my mother…sorry mom…that I was going to stay outta “discussions” like this as they usually degenerate into what this has become. But I’ve held my tongue long enough.

Please don’t leave the forum Robbie. You have a lot of friends here who really do respect you and your opinion. I’m just one of them. We need more people here exactly like you.

You’re not the first one to jump ship over bullshit like this. Yeah, that’s right, pure unadulterated bullshit. Just beautiful, really. It stinks to high heaven here and there’s no amount of cover that’s gonna fix it. It’s rotten.

I have never neg repped ANYONE and I’m not going to start now. It’s counter productive, petty and childish. If ya wanna ban something ban that.

The truth is if Garamon had the best interest of this forum, and the members, at heart he/she/it would step up. Well, it’s clear that ain’t gonna happen. Frankly, it’s the only way to really clear this up and put it to rest.

Oh, BTW, I befriended Garomon yesterday and was accepted. Then when I checked my profile today I had been unbefriended. LOL.

Well, a BIG heads up, kiddies. I ain’t goin’ anywhere. :slight_smile:

Bella

134

Magnum posted his thoughts on this almost near the start - What he said really resonated with me: Confidence is a goal, not an action

I think Steve repeated it later (Confidence is a noun, not a verb)

That being said…

I think it largely depends on HOW someone is being told to “be confident” -
In my experience people are told to be confident in a two main ways:

FROM A NEGATIVE FRAMEWORK - “Just be confident” - Negative Feedback Loop

An example that comes clearly to me is after failing in an interaction with a girl a guy comes back to his buddies who say “Dude, you have got to just be confident if you are ever going to get a girl”.

Framed in this way the suggestion of confidence comes from an implication that both the person LACKS confidence AND that the lack of confidence makes them a less worthwhile person. Everytime that guy remembers his buddies advice he is ALSO reminded that he lacks confidence AND has a lower value as a direct result.

Poor guy who still needs to figure out this self-confidence thing on his own and now also has to figure out how to get through the negative associations he has with trying to become more confident.

I should note that this negative association tends to occur from repeatedly being give the advice from a negative frame. It’s also not because his buddies are bad people - typically they are offering the advice in a negative frame because they haven’t spent much time thinking about it and only really know that it is a bad thing to not have any.

Negatively framed “Just be Confident” engenders a negative feedback loop - everytime confidence is thought about the lack thereof causes the thinker to lose more confidence. I THINK that Attractor had a problem with THIS type of advice.

From a Positive Framework - “Your awesome dude, all you need to do is start believing it” - Positive Feedback Loop - Confidence Bubble

The second common type of confidence advice generally comes when the people give you reasons why you should be confident because of things that you do well.

This advice tends to be infinitely more effective in creating the feeling of self-confidence in someone - especially confidence in what that person is good at. Most people will then start to translate the confidence they feel in the area that they are receiving validation elsewhere, which because they are feeling more confident tends to cause increased validation in those areas as well.

However, while confidence advice given in this framework does boost confidence… it has it’s issues…

Firstly, not everyone translates confidence in being good at something into other aspects of their life. They typically end up becoming somewhat arrogant about what they do well - it is what they are good for and without it they are nothing. Highschool jocks who don’t have much else going for them tend to also fall prey and end up flailing for quite awhile after high school.

The second problem happens to people who translate the confidence to others areas of their life. Typically the confidence gain from these positive feedback loops is easy - it feels good because people keep telling you how good you are (directly at first, indirectly by reacting positively to you later). Oftentimes it makes it really easy to feel really good about yourself REALLY QUICK. However, a significant part of the confidence from these loops ends up being from EXTERNAL VALIDATION.

The problem here is that because the confidence comes cheap you don’t need to examine yourself. You don’t need to INTERNALLY VALIDATE. You end up with a confidence bubble. Now that never really becomes an issue… unless the positive feedback loop ever dries up. Almost inevitably it does dry up and just like the housing bubble - your confidence drops lower than where it should be based on how confident you are due to internal validation (which I would call your baseline confidence level).
It’s just like the real estate market bubble… when it pops shit gets bad.

We see it happen with celebrities who rise too quickly and come crashing down… I’ve had a positive feedback loop confidence bubble pop on me - it wasn’t pretty… I made alot of mistakes that hurt people close to me.

I think both of the common ways people are told to “be more confident” tend to be counter-productive.

True confidence comes from becoming internally validated - it takes time, experience, and most importantly EFFORT to develop. You need to examine yourself, what you believe, your faults, your strengths and most importantly be truthful to yourself while doing it. You need to spend time and effort examining your motivations, where you want to go and why you want to go there. It’s a long, sometimes arduous process…

Personally I hope it will be worth it… I’m only just starting myself.

135

Great job on catching the true intention of my first post. That’s one of the things I was trying to point out. I was going somehow explain that in more detail, but wasn’t sure how to phrase it in ways the “it’s all about your mind” believers would understand. I tried to explain myself, but a few people responded to my viewpoints so negatively, it felt no different than proving one’s innocence after being accused of witchcraft in Salem.

136

And I think this is also what Robbie meant, except he phrased it as just going out and being confident. You got to start somewhere, and that start is driven by a desire to be confident. Confident in finally trying to be your best, and confident in general. You just have to kick yourself in the butt to get to this start, and I think that’s what he meant if I’m not mistaken. Just finally doing something about it be it by inner validation, affirmations, and all these other aspects. Just no more lollygagging in other words, just do it (but by this it doesn’t mean just turning on a confident light switch, as confidence doesn’t turn on, on command.)

It’s kind of like how they say, love yourself first before you can love others. So I’m assuming be confident in yourself first, before you can be confident in general.

137

Oh. Hey. Look. Drama.

On the internet.

Personally, I don’t know who this Garamon character is, and I don’t care either. I mean, none of you “really” know who I am either, and I don’t know who any of you are.
We’re all entitled to our privacy. Pheromones are great, but I still feel a bit weird about using them and I don’t think a single person I know in “real life” has any idea about them.
But that’s why I can post about that sort of stuff. The consequences are obscured by the internet.
People need to learn how this internet thing works. Since there’s nothing to loose it’s very hard to really convince anyone of anything on the internet. Whatever. Chiiiiiiiillllllll.

138

Now that we’ve established that there are several ways to ‘be more confident’ let’s list them all off. Here’s 7 ways + a book I recommend, I’d be interested to see other methods you come up with. Please, keep each method short and sweet if you can. Methods of confidence are as varied as the individuals here.

1) Self-Improvement: You look good, you feel good; simple as that. Spending time on your wardrobe, your physical fitness, your complexion, your hair style, and just your individual style in general, really gives you confidence.

2) Affirmation: Spend a few minutes every day in front of the mirror admiring yourself. Love yourself. If you don’t Love yourself, how can you expect anyone else to Love you? Create your own confidence by making a list of things you admire about yourself. Affirmation is one of the most important things you can do for yourself in life.

3) Rubbing off on other people: The more confident you are in yourself, the more other people admire you. Think of someone you admire, they are probably a ‘master’ at something they enjoy and have spent a lot of time on. They inspire you by being good at something themselves. This creates synergy between you and your friends, as you inspire them, they inspire you, and it causes a ‘cycle of confidence’ in yourself and in each other.

4a) Support system: Everyone needs a pick-me-up every now and again. Read a book on self confidence, self help books aren’t just for diets and working out, there’s a lot of good self-help books out there. Think of it this way…every problem you could possibly have in your whole life, has already been dealt with. There have been SO many people that have existed before you, that there are NO NEW PROBLEMS (when it comes to the human condition). There are books written about solutions to every problem possibly known to man.

4b) Supportive friends: There’s always someone better than you, it’s a fact of life. Spend time with these people, they’ll rub off on you. Mimic things you admire (not in a creepy way, give it your own style). I’m always vastly inspired by several of my friends, and I choose to keep those friends closest to me for that reason. Some friends are like parasites, and some friends are like a positive energy source. It’s worth it to dedicate some time removing the negative people in your life and replacing them with positive people.

5) Get good at something: From what I understand, this was the purpose of the original post. Mastering one or several things really does build confidence.

6) Deal with rejection: Rejection is usually to do with some issue the person rejecting you has, and has very little or nothing at all to do with you. Everyone has their own shit to deal with.

7) Fake it til you make it: It’s proven scientifically that this method works. You fake confidence long enough, it becomes second nature to you. It works via the brain connecting ‘wires’, and the more those ‘wires’ fire off, the more permanent their connection with your persona becomes.

A great book I would recommend reading is The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz. The agreements are:

Be Impeccable With Your Word
Always Do Your Best
Never Assume Anything
Don’t Take Anything Personally

The book elaborates all those points and gives common examples of how people are before/after making these four agreements with themselves.

Also, if you have never watched The Secret, I really think that might help as well.

139

Personal opinion here: I agree with everything you’ve said except the last. (I know some people disagree with my opinion here. I accept that.)

I think it is perfectly okay to say, “I’m not confident I can do that. But I’m confident I can learn how to do it.” It is perfectly okay to be real. Being real gives you a starting point to get from here to there.

Diane

140

Be more confident.
Trust your instincts.
Just have faith.

Familiarity with a concept renders these sentences moot. Gegogi’s keyboard example is good. There is nothing here to doubt, typewriters have been around for nearly 200 years, you strike a key, a letter appears.

The internet itself is a different thing. It engenders different levels of confidence depending on how familiar one is with the concept. Only the very youngest among have really grown up with the idea. Many of us don’t have much confidence in it. It’s not a safe place for your thoughts and ideas, even your identity is at risk. These things can be taken and twisted or magnified or interpreted by anyone if you place them on the internet.

Scary, so we make it less scary by putting a familiar shape to it, a forum, a community meeting place, a town hall. Now our confidence resides with the creators, owners, and moderators of the forum. Our confidence is based in large measure on how well and quickly they respond to concerns. We hear about things like spam, and worms, and bots, and phish and our moderators respond with confidence that they have things well in hand. Hey we like 'em, they’re funny and seem to know what they are doing.

Soon we feel silly when we see “Marlene” who isn’t on the members list hanging out in the visitors list. We don’t want to bother anyone but it worries us enough to pm a buddy, “have you seen?”. By the time the buddy looks “Marlene” is gone. She pops up a few more times and then stops…“well it probably was just someone who was checking out the forum, but how come she was in the visitors list but not the members list?”…and we feel silly.

Then we notice “snake”. “snake” visits everybody’s profile. “Who is this?” So we click to see their profile and get a message saying we aren’t authorized to go there. “Now wait.” we think “this slithering nasty snake thing can view me and see who my friends are and what’s said in my profile but I can’t see it?” And we think about “Marlene”. And we feel silly and wish we knew more about the internet. All is well soon and nasty slithering spying “snake” goes away.

A more serious matter comes up and I take it to a mod. It’s taken care of with aplomb and good wishes. I get a little good natured ribbing about being a conspiracy theorist. It’s all in fun. We laugh. It’s all good. :slight_smile:

In the meantime, along comes another of these little mysteries. I don’t ask about it because I don’t want to really be a conspiracy nut. I have confidence in our mods, but I do wonder. Then along comes a post in a combustible thread asking about this mystery. The post is heated and I hesitated to applaud it. The next post is somewhat less inflammatory. I put my thanks to it.

There are those who feel belittled by my thanks to Robbie. That is inside them, all I can really say to them is-

Be more confident.
Trust your instincts.
Have just a little faith.

Cuz, I ain’t goin’ anywhere and I do hope Robbie comes back.

141

i can apreciate the translation.
you also added some of your own flavor,as is highlighted.
your post reflects a peaceful vibe that makes the idea very easily understood…