Everyone should be able to feel comfortable talking openly in the men and women’s forums.
Women can feel free to help men here, but please don’t terrorize men here for openly being the pigs you just “know” that they are. 
We’re all human, and want similar things, even if we approach them differently. Men tend to be a little extreme and more “tough talking” (especially among their male buddies), that’s all. They still mean well.
Let’s keep this environment upbeat and supportive.
Just wondering why you are warning us about this.. do men really display “pig” behaviour on this forum?
if we do, it is only because someone else has logged in on our computer. 
They definitely do!
Any group of guys display some “pig-like” behavior, whether they’re hanging out on a forum or at a bowling alley.
You get guys together long enough and the conversation always devolves to sex and other basic bodily functions every now and then. Especially on a forum like this, where most of the topics revolve around human behavior (including sexuality).
I know women’s conversation devolves, too, but in a different style entirely.
The two styles tend to clash, otherwise “guys nights out” and “girls nights out” would be the “girls and guys” night out. Yet it’s not…
… one of the reasons you hang out in a single sex group for awhile is so a different kind of truth can come to the forefront of conversation. So you can toss mixed group politeness out of the window for awhile, and speak candidly with each other.
I think it’d be great if on this forum, both men and women feel equally able to express themselves freely.
Men can have their own brand and style of candor (with the resulting offensiveness) on the men’s forum, and women can have their own brand and style of candor (also with it’s own possible offensiveness) on the “women’s forum”.
Although male and female communication styles can clash a bit, I think nearly complete freedom of expression helps to speed up real understanding… and that’s what we’re looking for here. Real understanding of human behavior as it relates to human pheromones, or otherwise.
I would have to agree with the above post!
I think both sexes ahve their own “brand” as you said, whether that be just in normal conversation, humor or points of view.
I think its a great idea to keep some of this forum seperate for both sexes.
…priceless…LOL!
I’m actualy not going to post on the forum because this went on in one of the threads and I spoke up about it and got neg reped and called an asshole (not kidding). If we have to edit ourselves some posts (good ones) are not going to happen for fear of attack. I really think angry females should not be in a mens forum, if there was a totally segregated MALE ONLY forum (seperate from the current mens forum) I think some real progress could be made from forum members not wanting to risk attack.
Not sure Pongo. L-S is all male now, and it is definitely missing something, and feels unwelcoming.
I prefer a mixed environment, similar to the purpose and environment we use phero’s in anyway.
The problem seems to stem from not mixing the genders, rather from a minority having trouble respecting each other views and debating them in mature manner. The ‘pack’ behaviours are to watch out for here.
well I’m outa here at any rate - it was just a suggestion - not everyone would have to go to the all male part of the forum just those who wanted too.
I’ll have to be brief, or try to, anyway (severely hurt my right hand the other day) –
I do consider this forum to be men only, except for a friendly female prescence which is welcome. Other than that, women are not welcome. This is the same way in the women’s forum. It’s mostly for women. Men allowed in must be sympathetic to what the women say there, and not create a hostile attitude.
I thought this was clear in the forum rule stickies at the top of each forum? If not, let me know.
While I’m against outright censorship, I’m not against being a referee. Initiating unwarranted hostility toward innocent people is not welcome or allowed on this forum, much as it isn’t allowed in real life among civilized human beings. Defending yourself is okay, of course… if you were actually PERSONALLY attacked.
Also, if you want to be aggressive, we do have a place for that, as well. As I say in my signature, everyone here is fully allowed and encouraged be aggressively nice, wonderful people. They can kiss the male user’s aggressively, for all I care! Maybe tickle 'em aggressively… rahr! As long as the actions (including criticism) are one’s that have a positive outcome in mind, I’m all for it. Be zany and goofy! Go for it!
Now, if there’s an issue with true hostility, let me know.
Here’s the litmus test:
Read what the other person (the one you’re perceiving to be hostile) is saying in a happy, upbeat voice tone. If you didn’t do anything to personally attack them, and what they’re saying STILL sounds hostile even in the upbeat voice tone, then it probably is hostile.
In a case like this, inform me and I’ll be happy to to remind the user that men are people, too, with real feelings… and they mean well, no matter what they say on the surface. (male bravado is mostly social signaling system for other men) Usually that’s all it takes. Being on a forum is like being in a car. You don’t see people for who they really are, and some untoward behavior emerges (this is not a mere observation; it’s been well studied). Sometimes people need a reminder.
If that doesn’t work, I can give them an infraction. Sort of like local jail for a week. If a penalty doesn’t work, they’ll become the first user who was banned for something other than spam. People who are actually dedicated to being cruel hearted are not welcome here.
Warmly,
Michael
PS – If you have any other ideas on how we can better offer separation of the forums… but allow “friendlies” to the femdom or maledom causes in… do let me know. Password system, maybe? Or maybe a user level that gives people access to an additional forum which is truly sex segregated for the “touchier” subjects (i.e., no women allowed at all in a special men’s forum, and no men allowed at all in a special women’s forum – period – sort of like rest rooms)?
Please share your thoughts. I want everyone to feel welcome here, and to increase the exchange for information. To me, the best and highest use of this forum is as something which improves the lives of everyone involved. Nobody should ever feel hostility directed against them, unless they actually earn it. Even then, being given the benefit of the doubt goes a long way.
Idiom: give someone the benefit of the doubt
*]In a case where some doubt remains: to assume that they are telling the truth, or are innocent, because there is not enough evidence to be certain that they are not.
One of the MOST useful features of this board is the glimpse into the other sex’s pscyhe and experience and opinions
WHERE ELSE do we get an opportunity like this???
This is priceless, for goodnesssakes lets not damage it!
Pack behaviours could be dangerous, yes, however, we haven’t really seen those here, have we?
The worst thing I’ve seen so far is psychological projection. What appears to be an insulted responder who actually hallucinated a) something that was not said, or b) attributes about the person talking that in no way were indicated or strongly hinted at.
It’s always good to actually read what a person is saying. I don’t think that’s always happening.
Also, there are no facial expressions online. There’s no voice tone. That’s why it’s CRITICAL on forums to read anything which “offends” you again before you respond… in an upbeat, happy voice tone. Often this will fix any misconceptions about what they person meant, right then and there.
I agree 100%.
On the other hand, it appears that while some (if not most) people can handle this (women seeing into the secret world of men, and men seeing into the secret world of women), that some people just can’t handle it. They freak out needlessly.
It would be nice to find a system to balance this out. Both sexes sometimes say things that could sound offensive when run through the other sexes psychological filters… but that’s all they are… sexually differentiated filters. It’s not reality. In reality, almost everyone means well. Almost everyone is a good person, and a good neighbor. The most psychologically healthy people assume that most other people are good. (in fact… they are! It’s delusional to think anything else… exceptions are not the rule)
People really shouldn’t feel the need to respond to something harshly which isn’t a personal attack. This is specifically what needs to be stomped out.
I think that it would be a sad thing if we banned the men from the women’s forum and the women from the men’s forum. As a women, I feel that from time to time the men offer valuable and interesting insights on the women’s forum. I really appreciate that. I would like to believe that, generally, the guys feel the same way about us gals posting on their forum.
Here is what I believe about any post that might be deemed negative. It is an old saying that you might remember from childhood, although very relevant: “sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt.”:
Yes, I suppose words can hurt at times, but it is very important that, as mature adults, we try to understand where the negative poster is coming from, and what could have possibly occurred in his or her life experience to shape their ideas and lead them into posting a negative response.
I believe we have come a long way as a society in creating an equal treatment of men and women without segregation of the sexes. Heck, we even have unisex bathrooms in some places.
Children, children… that children’s saying has me regressing…
Okay, now that’s a potential solution there!
To me, this forum should… for the most part… be like a child’s PLAYground. Yelling at people is NOT an okay behavior on a playground, unless you were personally bullied. That’s not the purpose of a playground, after all. The purpose is to PLAY. To enjoy.
No one comes on this, or any other forum (I hope) to do anything but… to play, to enjoy… to enhance their lives in some way.
Serious discussion is okay on a playground, too, as long as “serious” doesn’t equate with mean.
Honest discussion is welcome, as long as nobody is using the phrase “I’m just being honest” as an excuse to be a psychological vulture. A “meanie”. (which many people do when they utter that phrase; reminds me of how it’s mostly honest-to-god, unsharing, sycophantic people who most often utter “You’re being selfish!”)
You’ll notice that most truly genius level people are VERY playful. They joke a lot, they throw around ideas… they’ll say things that SEEM offensive, just to try the idea out. No big deal – it’s playing with words. Some wild minded geniuses even call seriousness a disease that shunts the mind. I think we can all learn from that.
So, anyway, how about it? We’ll call this thing a playground instead of a forum.. make it an active reminder of why we’re all here. The same reasons we had when we were a kid, apply now. Those reasons are: To have fun and to GROW!
That sounds good to me, Michael! After all, they don’t keep the boys and girls separate in kindergarten, do they?
Boys at kindy already have girlfriends, usually 2 .. girls have a selection process underway for potential marriage material boys, to which (naturally) boys are challenging.
So, yes .. If they can mix that successfully, maybe we adults could try as well.
I for one am against the separation of men and women into their respective forums. I really believe that women provide a valuable counter-point to the male perspective to our discussions, even when I outright disagree with what they have to say. There’s a lot that we can learn from the women here, who are willing to give real insight on the workings of the female mind, just as I believe theres a lot women can learn from us men, who often very bluntly provide insight on the workings of the male mind. Imagine a woman knowing all the little ‘PU’ secrets men employ, and using against their targets. Priceless!
As long we’re all able to keep an open mind, and try to understand the different perspectives and beliefs we each hold, we should be fine. Even if we outright disagree with someone, we have to respect that someone’s perspective isn’t outright wrong, its just outright different…its a product of different lifestyles, experiences, beliefs, and yes, different genders. In sociology, they say that one shouldn’t view others cultures ethnocentrically (belief that your culture is superior to theirs), as this would drastically skew how you percieve them. The same concept applies in the context of the discussions here. We shouldn’t view the male culture (it really is a bit of a culture here) as superior and let that skew our peception of what the ladies have to contribute, and vice versa.
It becomes a problem when we’re so wrapped up in our own beliefs and perceptions that start we start taking offense to what others have to say. If we make a conscious effort to understand each other, even if we disagree, I’m sure most will find that no one is out to directly offend anyone. We’re all just different, and its a beautiful thing.
That being said, I don’t think we should tolerate personal attacks that are directly intended to offend someone, or to directly ridicule somoeone. This hasn’t happened too often, but it has happened on both sides of the fence, whether the posters themselves realized it or not. Condescending the views of someone else, even jokingly can carry heavy implications, whether one is trying to be offensive or not. We’re all welcome to disagree respectfully, but it should be done in a manner to help others understand how you feel…not simply for the sake of condscending another.
anyway this is kind of redundant, so I’ll leave it at that.
Men’s vs Women’s forums
Someone mentioned having the equivalent of men’s and women’s bathrooms, and perhaps that might someday be necessary, but I’m actually hoping for something less effectively segregated. I don’t think we’re best served with hiding whole threads; privacy as needed is served with PMs.
We have a Men’s Pheromone Forum, we have a Women’s Pheromone Forum, but we don’t have a Unisex Forum/Open Forum to discuss Pheromones.
(The Lounge, for me, anyway, has more of an Off-Topic/General Socializing sense to it.)
Without closing the Men’s Forum to women, or the Women’s Forum to men, and with an Open Forum – that means we’d have a choice to make: to put a new thread in the Open Forum, or to suggest that it’s outside the province of men or women somehow by putting it into the Men’s or Women’s Forum.
I guess, however, that would really be a change for me – I did not, until the recent rant about PUA, consider the Women’s Forum to be “turf” nor the Men’s Forum to be “turf”, but rather to be topic focus areas. To paint a picture, I didn’t see one forum with burgundy leather and cigars, and the other with lace and dainty tea service – I saw two sections of the library which happen to hold threads on Men’s Pheros in one and Women’s Pheros in the other.
I wanted to finish this post by jokingly saying “This is all Ail’s fault” or by saying “that damn rascal Raspaile caused this” or “the pheros have figured out how to post, and are escaping onto the forums!” … but I don’t think we’ve recovered our sense of humor on this issue yet.
Which I deeply regret.
I’m not entirely aware of the threads you speak of, Mark. I’m amazed that there is now more going on on this forum than I have capability of being aware of. The forum has really taken off.
The suggestions I had at the top of each forum implied that women should allow men to be what they would consider pig-like (as male bravado steps up to an extremely large degree when mostly men are involved), and men should allow women to be dainty… or whatever women are when they’re together. (Unless I overhear a mostly female party at a restaurant, or consider Sex In The City to be a reality show, I honestly don’t have enough experience to “pigeonhole” ladies-night-out type conversation!)
Honestly, I think both sexes express a high degree of bravado when they get together and discuss “the other” sex. I’ve heard women be just as “bad” as men when in all-female groups, in terms of “talking tough”, “talking dirty” or even verbally marginalizing the other sex (“he was just a stupid man… no, no, he was a boy… and that boy didn’t know what hit him!”).
I think a mix of “focus” related forums, as well as private areas, might be best. You could have utter privacy if you’d like, or co-mingle, depending on your tolerance level.
However, what I really don’t like, nor will I tolerate, is poor reading or psychological projection that leads to untoward responses. Most of the negative posts I’ve seen never would’ve emerged if the angry responder actually read what the original poster actually said in the first place.
I read a few of these and I had to wonder “What and to whom is this person respond to with this anger? They person they’re responding to never said that”.
There’s too much “reading the between the lines”. Too much assumption, too many attempts at “mind reading” – thinking you know who someone is, when you don’t. Especially too much assuming the worst of others. Not enough listening/reading at face value. Certaintly not enough giving people the benefit of the doubt.
Reality is a lot better and most people kinder than people assume. So many people’s lives are full of wonderful things that they take for granted. Many people think the world of themselves, while not fully acklowedging the capability or warmth of others.
The fact is that almost everyone on this forum lives day to day without anything truly bad happening to them, BECAUSE people, in general, are very good to one another. Even when your neighbors don’t particularly like you, it’s not like they kill you in your sleep, either. That says something.
If you’re going to assume anything about someone, assume the best. Let them prove you wrong. And when you think they’re “proving” something, test that proof. Make sure it’s not you reading their message wrong. There’s no facial gestrues, body language, or voice inflections online. This lack of social cues is 90% of what leads to “road rage” and “forum rage” alike. That’s why I recommend that people read messages in a happy, uplifting voice tone when subvocalizing. That alone helps tremendously.