A second chance, to start over?

Before I begin - I know this is not a relationship forum, but I’d still like to post this, as I could use any help I can get. As it is an Off Topic part of the forum, I figured that no harm can come out of this :slight_smile:))

I’m facing a situation, where I do no not know where I stand at. It is a long story, as I tried to be as precise as I can. - I added a short summary of it all in the end. :slight_smile:

A little about me before I begin. (For those who haven’t seen me before, or do not remember my introduction - i.e likely most of you :stuck_out_tongue:)

  • I’m 28, from Estonia, I have worked as a seaman on different passenger- and cargo ships, and have by now a deck officers diploma, which I can exchange to a license once I get one more month of seafaring practice.

I have experimented with pheromones. None of them from Androtics, though. But I did order (and just received my first batch), containing:
*Instant Openness
*Instant Gentleman
*Instant Honesty
*Alpha A314
*Putative 102

I haven’t tried them out yet in a dating context yet. As I might get a new chance with the girl I like, I’d prefer to increase my chances as much as possible. I’d appreciate any dating advice, any insight into what she might be thinking, and also any advice regarding pheromones. Should I order something more for this specific case?

  • Summer 2009 - I’m on a cruise. A girl approaches me. We talk for an hour, part our ways. She seems to be more attracted to me at that time, than I am towards her. We do not exchange contact information. Both of us are likely too shy. She does however tell me where she works, so I could find her.

  • 2009 to 2010 - I see the girl on a few occasions at her work (she works as an check-in assistant for the shipping company), when travelling. She is flirty, but not even once did I ask her contact information.

  • Spring 2011 - I went on a cruise again. As I was about to embark, she approaches me, telling me that she is going on the same cruise. I offer to wait for her so we can go together, but she has to wait for her friends. I then meet another girl onboard (a member of the crew) with whom we have instant attraction. We start talking, until the first girl passes by and joins us. The two girls are friends with each other. The next day the first girl adds me as a friend on Facebook.

*We chatted quite heavily, but I was cautious with her, as I was dating the second girl I met onboard. I asked her out once I realized that things between me and the girl I met onboard might not be working afterall. She(the first girl) did not show up for our first planned date, claiming that she forgot and did not hear the phone ring when I called her. She apologised in every way she could and seemed to be sincerely sorry. We arranged to meet a few days later outside her workplace at the harbour and she hugged me when she approached, and when I left. Soon enough I got confirmation, that the second girl was not interested in me any longer (albeit I did not get the message right away, and tried to make her reconsider). I did, however accept it, and did not bother that second girl any further. Me and the first girl I met chatted days on end. I finally asked her out once more. This time she came and had a really good time, giving me a very big and strong hug when we left. We chatted for several hours, well into the night.

I might have managed to inadvertently offend her during one of the chatting sessions (did not realize it at the time). We had just decided on our second date when it happened. I went to the meeting place, but she did not show up. I asked her, and she just told me that she was sleeping. We continued on chatting, however, but I kept receiving more and more vague responses when asking her out again, until she started ignoring me altogether when she realized I was about to ask her out. We did not chat as much as we used to. (She went to school and worked full time, and understood that she might have less time to chat). She seldom initiated a conversation herself, and did not behave in a flirty manner when we did chat. Sometime in between I delivered her a love poem (haiku) in an closed envelope, telling her not to open it until she got home. Apparently she did, as she initiated a conversation within 30 minutes after receiving it. She was chatting in a slightly flirty manner and seemed to be happy.

Winter 2011 - I knew she was going on a cruise with a female friend. I had the purser deliver a rose and a teddy bear into her cabin. She initiated a conversation with me once she was back. We chatted all day long (something that had not happened for almost two months). She did not mention anything about the surprise, until I finally asked her. She thanked me, and told me that she was afraid I would not ask at all. - But, I have a friend onboard, and she told me, that the girl was indeed surprised when she saw the rose and teddy bear, but apparently she thought that somebody else might have surprised her, before the purser told her it was me.

Again, we did not chat as often as we used to. I met her once at a party. While she might not have noticed me, she turned away when I approached her. It was only after I called her name, when she turned around. She did not hug me, nor did we have any physical contact. We did talk for a few minutes, and she then told me she had to leave, to be with her (female) friends.

I had planned a cruise in January this year, which she knew about it. I asked her to come on the same cruise. She gave me some vague answers regarding it, but I was informed later on, that she indeed had had a cruise booked for the same day, but only to change the date one day forward shortly before the sailing. She then told me that she had an exam on the day I was travelling. Sometime during this time I asked her, if she was angry with me that I had shown interest in dating both her, and the second girl at the same time, and that I actually did date her AFTER it become clear that the second girl (and her friend) was not interested in me. She told me that she was not angry at all, and even claimed she did not know anything about it.

After that I decided not to talk her at all - hoping that she would herself show interest, and also wishing not to look desperate. Needless to say, the first time she initiated contact with me was when she wished me happy birthday. It was in June. Well, at least she did do so in the chat, not on my Facebook wall. We had not had any contact whatsoever for the three-four months preceding it.

  • June 2012 - I went on a conference onboard the ship while it was in port. I was among the first to arrive and picked a seat. As it turned out, there were people from the check-in attending too. The conference had already started, when I looked behind me, and there she was. She was sitting precisely behind me. - I was quite certain she did not want much to do with me, but why should she sit so close to me then? We did not talk a single word, though I had a surprised reaction towards her haircut. She giggled when I looked at her. I later told her in the chat that he had an interesting haircut (I did not tell her I liked it, because in reality I liked her old haircut much more).

I waited for a week, or two and asked her to come out again. She did not reply, and when I asked her a few days later, she said that she was sorry and that she did not notice my message. I then asked her out once more, this time being very specific. Again, she did not reply. (Facebook shows if the message has been seen, or not. She either did not see it, or decided not to read it) I asked her again a few days later, and she told the same story about missing my message. She then told me that my ideas were great, but she had to let me down, because it seemed like I was asking her on a date. I then wrote her a longer message, noting my suspicions that I had inadvertently offender her just days after our first date, explained to her what I really meant when I made the offending comment, and added, that it was really more of an compliment - and it was, just not one well thought through. She did not answer.

I decided to let her be. A few days later, however, I noticed that she either had blocked me, unfriended me, or cancelled her Facebook account altogether. Her profile remained missing for several days, until it finally came back again.

I still wanted to remain friends with her, as she was a nice girl, really. And I did not want to avoid her altogether, as had been the case with the girl I met onboard (I haven’t talked to her even once after she walked away). So I saw a rather interesting picture made of her and published in facebook. It gave me an excuse to talk to her and make a casual joke about the picture. She did reply, but did not talk much herself. It lasted for roughly 10 minutes.

She has not "like"d any of my posts or picture (not that I post or add pictures much anyway), but I did add a picture, involving another girl who was hugging and teasing me. She did “like” that. I assumed only that it was a hint that she is happy that I have found somebody else and I should stop talking to her.

  • August 2012 - I spray some pheromone fragrance (This specific was called “Panther Spice”), and quite heavily so, and go to the port to take a cruise. I saw her at the check-in desk, so I went to her to get my boarding card and tickets. This time she was quite flirty again. She asked me how I had been, what I had been doing, and so on. I asked her, if she would be going on a cruise too, and she told me she was going to one at the end of the month. We engaged in some more small-talk, and she would likely had talked more, but I left, and went onboard (I was polite about it, of course, and smiled to her). I figured that if I had a better chance with her if she saw, that my intention was to get my tickets and embark, rather than to chit-chat with her. To my surprise she initiated a conversation with me one day after I was back from the cruise. She asked how my cruise had been, what I had done, and so on. We did chat for a while, continuing the next morning. She did not respond to one of my comments, so I let it be. Somewhat to my surprise she initiated another conversation about five days later. More surprising was, that she asked precisely the same question: how my cruise had been, although I did answer her the first time she asked. Anyway, we have been chatting for several days in a row now. I found out the precise day she is travelling, and booked a cruise for that day, (for Chuck Norris, to be more precise, so she would not find my booking). After all, I would not want to seem like a stalker. Yet, as we chatted more, she even told me the precise day she was travelling(she did not know I knew it already), also telling me that she is going with a female friend. She also entrusted me with some information she claimed only a few people know, I being the only man of those people.

Could it be that she has somehow changed, and has again feelings for me? What effect could the pheromones have done? Frankly speaking I do not dare to ask her, because if I do, it might ruin it all. She might start ignoring me once more. While it may have some stalker elements in it, I am still contemplating on going on the cruise the same day she is. I plan on meeting her onboard, and hoping to get a chance to talk to her in person. Or should I do something sooner than that? Or would my plan regarding the cruise look like stalking and show me off needy?

I’m out of ideas here. I would not have too much trouble of finding another girl, but I have not really had the same attraction to any of them I have met in between, that I have towards her. I do not want to lose her as a friend, either.

In short - Girl seems to like me. It takes several years for us to get together. We date and she enjoys it fully. I inadvertently screw up/we misscommunicate. She is no longer interested in meeting me, but seems to be interested in being friends. About 9-10 months after the screw-up she tells me she is not interested in dating me. Two months - six weeks later - I spray a relatively large dose of pheromones on me. I meet her and she becomes flirty again and appears to be interested in me. She continues to be interested in me and chats with me even a week after we last met, something she has not done for the last 8 months. I’m out of ideas. I’m glad of how things have changed, but don’t want to screw it up again.

I’d appreciate all help and any ideas. :slight_smile:

You had a chance early on but you made a crucial mistake. You dated her friend. If it was some girl she didnt know it wouldn’t be an issue but in female relationships there is a hierarchy and a unspoken loyalty and no one wants the others cast offs or to be second choice because it threatens your place in the group. As long as she is still involved with the group of friends she has now she is unlikely going to jeopardize that unless there is extreme attraction and emotional connection involved.

From your timeline I would say she is telling you. I like you as a friend and you will remain in my friends box but I am aware your attracted to me so when you start to signal she shuts you down with avoidance.

Your going to have to push and risk losing her as a friend or accept your place in the box.

Tisha

I’m going to arm myself with some TUTH (most likely) and go for it. :slight_smile:
Well, I figured it might be bad, but then again, she agreed on a date. It just happened that the date in question was after I “broke up” with her friend. (The most intimacy I had with her friend was hugging, so it should not count for much). I actually become aware of the fact that they were friends after I already was aquainted with that second girl, i.e her friend.

But yes, I understand, that no-one wants to feel like the second option, though I do not think it is the main reason for all of this happening.

I just took a look at Panther spice and believe me. Thats not it. LOL

Its supposedly anol and copulins or as they put it “a mixture of fruity scents called copulins”. Copulins are not a mix of fruity scents they are the vaginal secretions of young fertile females mimicked using fatty acids not fruity scents, On a man they indicate he is taken or sexualy active.

This could be indicating your safe especially since she seemed pleased when she thought you were in a relationship. There is safty in being just friends with a taken male. Remember I am saying could not that this is it.

Another concern I have with Panther spice is the built in deoderant. Bad bad bad for pheromone conversion and diffusion. Its going to stop those pheromones dead in there tracks.

For what ever the reason though your in the friends box. Its a tough place to get out of and is talked about often here. I know you dont want to risk the friendship but if you really want to your going to have to take the risk.

What else do you have besides Panther and TUTH ?

Oh and there is no such thing as French pheromones LOL

Tisha

Here is my full arsenal (as of today):

  • A314

  • IO

  • IH

  • IG

  • P102

  • 10 Attractant - bought from e-bay a few months ago.

I will get a second package on Monday. It includes:

  • AMMO (2X - Double Strength)
  • IS (2X - Double Strength)
  • TUTH
  • P75
  • Possibly an added pheromone, as I am under the impression, that Androtics adds one to each order, which I am very grateful for. :slight_smile:

OK first I don’t think it looks needy to go on the same cruise. Your inclined to go on cruises its not like your just there because she is.

Stay away from Panther for now. Not that I think its effective but just in case you don’t want to come off as friend zone safety male to her.

I don’t know how long these cruises are or what the set up is like. During the day time if your around her go with ammo Ishine and IO. Sexy magnetic and fun.

Night time or actual one on one date type times go with TUTH buffered by IH for intimacy. You can use a drop or 2 of A314 under both these to up your status.

I wish you had some P83 because that would go a long way in pushing her past whatever is inhibiting her.

Create some sexual tension. Dont be a pig, men have the wrong ideal of how to create that tension sometimes :smiley: Brush up on body language and throw in some sexual trigger words. Google it you will find some basic guides.

Remember you want to push a little not shove her.

Tisha

Thank you :slight_smile:

I ordered 2 bottles of P83. I just hope it arrives in time, as the cruise is on the 30th of August. :stuck_out_tongue:

Well, it is a 40 hours cruise from Tallinn to Stockholm, and back. The ship is in port during the day, leaves port in the evening and arrives in the morning.

I already told he I am going on the same ship - that was after she messaged me in facebook - for no apparent reason. The only thing she asked me was, why I am online all the time. :smiley: It is the third time in row now: She initiates a chat with me, and we engage in a conversation. Then there is a break of about 5-6 days, and she starts a conversation again.

Edit /

There is a chance I won’t receive them in time, as it went to the custom laboratoy for processing. Well, if this is the case, then I can at least use those receipies you recommended. :slight_smile:

Tisha, I might be mistaken, but according to what I have read, P75 and P83 are somewhat similar. Could I use P75 instead, if I don’t get the P83 in time?

And how should I use them? Alone, or together with somethine else?

I moved this to the pheromone section so others can help you.

You are very mistaken - P75 and P83 are in no way similar. I don’t know where people keep getting this from.

Strange indeed. Perhaps I confused it with something else.

In any case, I do have quite a lot of P83 available.

How do you suggest I should mix it to gain the optimal effects? :slight_smile:

Well, that is what I meant :slight_smile:
I was under the impression, though, that it can be counter-efficient to use too much at once. Does this apply only when using too much of one specific pheromone/product?

I went on that cruise about a week ago. I am still not completely sure what to think of her.

Cruise, day 1 -
Armament:

  • Ammo, 2 sprays
  • IS 2 sprays
  • IH 2 sprays

I had just finished eating dinner and saw the girl with her friend. I approached her, and we kept talking for the better part of 20. She did make eye contact, but looked away and down to the floot most of the time when she talked to me. I saw her sitting alone in a bar a few hours later. I did not sit down immediately, so she told me that I could join her. Her friend came back, and we kept talking. They began hosting karaoke in a bar next to us, and I asked them to join me (either to sing with me, or just come and listen). They said that they were not interested, but would come if I were to sing. She promised to hold my seat while I signed up for karaoke. I came back only to see the seats empty. She and her friend had disappeared.

I am not a disco person, really, but I met a few people who wanted to dance, so I went with them.

I excused myself for a few seconds and did some spraying:

  • IO, 2 sprays
  • TUTH - 2 sprays

I still likely had the effects of Ammo and IS on.

I saw her sitting alone on a chair while dancing, and approached her. She agreed to having a drink, so I bought her one. She even allowed me to pay for it (though the drinks cost me 0.75 euroes only). We then proceeded to a sofa and sat down and continued talking. She was somewhat drunk, and did not mind me being there. She did not mind any body contact either, though she did move away rather quickly when our noses accidentally touched. I stood up and took her hand after about 20 minutes, asking her for a dance. She did protest, but did not resist me. She was, however not interested in dancing and wanted to go to the bathroom instead. So I waited for her, and escorted herself to her cabin. My cabin was on the way, and she came in for a minute, or so. I then escorted her to her cabin. The word “friend” was said, and she asked me why I was escorting her.

That was basically it. I saw them the next day at the disco, but then she was not very talkative. (I had the same pheromones, but only 1 spray of TUTH) The three of us danced for 10-15 minutes, until she decided to sit down, so I continued dancing with her friend. We stopped dancing and I told her and her friend that they should have a good evening. (I pretended receiving a text message, and left the disco.)

So much about the cruise. Somewhat to my disappointment I actually got a call on the first morning onboard, that my package of P83’s had arrived. By disappointed, I mean, that I could really have used it during the cruise. :stuck_out_tongue: Well, I got my chance a few days later. :slight_smile:

I came back from the ship, and rather stupidly washed my boarding card along with my clothes. I have kept all my boarding cards and have a rather impressice collection of them. I also run a small company, and would need to keep all my boarding cards for accounting. I looked for a day when the girl was working and went to the port. With a little patience and luck I was able to approach her disk, and told her of my problem.

I had this on when talking to her:

  • Ammo, 2 sprays
  • P83, 2 sprays
  • IG, 1 spray
  • IH, 1 spray
  • IS, 2 sprays

She told me, that she can not print me a new boarding card, as the departure is closed in their system the next day. I was standing there, however, in a confident manner, flirting with her. She kept on thinking of a solution, instead of sending me away, until finally she went looking for her supervisor (although she knew that her supervisor was not there at the moment) - this is something she usually would not do. She was standing there, almost not knowing what to do, when she realized that there was one person with more privileges (who could open the departure in the system). The person however refused, so she came back to me. I told her, that I would offer her a lunch if she were to print out the boarding card for me. She then told me that she might get my boarding card later on.

I then proceeded to pay for a ticket, and book another one. The day I wanted to travel was fully booked, but to my complete surprise she asked me, if I would like to travel one day earlier instead, as she was thinking of travelling on that day too. It came as a genuine surprise, but after a few seconds of thinking I agreed to it.

I also got a “hit” when I left. A pursers assistant came running to the same disk and looked at me in a way she never has. :stuck_out_tongue:

Fast forward a few days, and she starts chatting with me in Facebook, asking about my booking. We chatted a little, and I asked her a question she did not read (or notice, but I suspect that she did not read it). Facebook has timestamps showing when each and every message has been seen. I messaged her a few hours later, and she replied, but again, she did not either read, or notice my second message, which is weird, because it was she, who initiated the conversation in the first place.

I ought to be saying, though, that she did behave in a similar manner in the summer; back then the messages were about asking her out, and whenever I asked her a day or two later why she did not reply, she said that she was sorry, and that she did not notice the messages, and afterwards telling me that she was not interested in dating me. And she did, in fact avoid me whenever possible. That was before and during the summer.

The things that have left me wondering are: was she doing some kind of test on me, seeing my reaction, when they disappeared when she promised to come to the karaoke bar?

Also, why would one initiate a conversation, and then decide to ignore a part of the conversation, making it look like that she has not seen the messages, yet replying when I send a new message? I could understand this sort of behaviour when she indeed was avoiding me. But why now?

I’m sorry about the long post, but I’m in real need of advice. :slight_smile:

Maybe she is not avoiding the conversation but just that particular subject in the conversation that you brought up with your question.

Seems to me from your descriptions that your always pursuing her on these ships. Metaphorically… Your just throw your bait right in the water and letting it sit there. If you want your “fish” to strike you have to pull your bait back a little.

Obviously there is some sort of interest whether that is friendship or attraction because if she wasn’t she would have avoiding mentioning that upcoming cruise. I suggest you find her on the ship but don’t approach her. See if you can get her to pursue a little.

Tisha

Indeed, that would have been the case when I kept asking her out. :stuck_out_tongue:
This is not the case here, however, there was nothing special in the line of talking that would warrant her not replying. Also, the Facebook chat shows that she has not even seen the message, most likely she has just ignored it, i.e not opened it at all. It is very difficult just to “miss”.

Well, most likely I should do something along these lines. Get her to see me. Or perhaps not go at all, and see if she contacts me on Facebook, or other means? I mean, it should make her think. She knows that I am attracted to her, yet I give up the chance to see/be close to her.

I did that the second night (or more precisely, took the bait out of water completely :stuck_out_tongue:), when I just walked away, avoided all contact with her, and only saw her when I had legitimate business to the port, and I “accidentally” happened to see her there. :slight_smile:

There is a possibility this is about her and not you. Maybe she really just hasn’t seen it. I tend to look at my wall but miss messages in facebook. Not because I am ignoring or doing it on purpose, its just not my preferred way of communicating. She has missed them before so its likely its just a habit of hers. Don’t read to much into it.

Yes you did, at the disco you pulled away that last night. Notice how when you saw her again she suggested the next cruise she was taking. I am not suggesting you ignore her on the next cruise but give her a chance to make the move. Like suppose she is at the bar. Walk up a few people over from her and get a drink but dont say anything to her. If you do make eye contact smile and give a little nod but dont stop to talk. Be available in the sense that your in her field of vision but not pursuing her. See if you can get her to come to you.

Tisha