an open look at my game, and hopefully you can give me some advice

Field Reports & Anecdotal Experience Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports
1

FYI, every conversation here is translated and paraphrased a bit from chinese, so bear that in mind.

A314 x 2
ammo x1.5
P83 x 20mcg

opened this girl in my dining hall, intended it to be a cold approach, but turns out she knew my class mate, so it ended up being a warm one. She doesn’t speak any english, and while my chinese is getting pretty good, running routines and getting them to sound good is difficult, so i generally try to fly more by the seat of my pants while sticking to the basic model. kinoed got through A3, SOI’d and moved her to a coffee shop nearby.

kino escalation, she was touching me a lot, but would pull away if i tried to make the kino more sexual.(mostly hands, arms, shoulder and back being accepted) she volunteered her number without me asking, and after a few more minutes left for her afternoon class.

a few days later, I called her, playful, had her laughing, asked her about going out the next day, she said she didn’t know, told me to talk to her tomorrow, I refused, told her i need plans in advance, I’m a busy guy. she said ok.

she told me the next day she couldn’t go out at night, some excuse about needing to help her friends. If i wanted to hang out she had time in the afternoon. I relented.

we met, went ice scating, she could barely stand up, so she was at least holding my hand if not bear hugging me for an hour or so, again, still would back away if i made things sexual. never complained, just pretended like it wasn’t a big deal and moved on. went to a coffee shop, tons more touching, during a lull I tried to kiss her, but she dodged it.

She admitted she has problems trusting guys, she had only had 1 boyfriend before and he had lied to her a whole bunch. clearly she is rather soured.

walked to a restaurant, holding hands, joking around, good fun, arm around her. she actively seeks out my kino but wont allow further escalation. dinner is fine, but ive been out with her a long time, and shes not letting me turn that corner, and i can’t really get her to ‘chase’ me.

Ultimately, we go home, she refuses another kiss on parting. (this part was stupid, I should have known i wasn’t going to get one, too outcome dependent)

next morning she texts me saying how she didn’t sleep well due to thinking about us, and how if we hung out more she would probably start to like me, but she is afraid to get close to me because i might hurt her like her last bf did. then she offered to set me up with some of her friends, i refused saying “forget it”

I told her i wasn’t mad, and maybe i could like her too, but she needed to understand me better.

here is where i am confused.

she turns a corner right here after that last text. saying

Her:"sorry, don’t be angry, i just got out of bed. I just don’t know you well enough to let you get close to me.
Me: “ok, well it was nice to meet you” (assuming it was over)
her: ?
me: what do you mean “?”
her: maybe you made a typo, I’m going out to X place this afternoon, but can i treat you to dinner tonight
me: I’m not too sure, i might be busy
Her: let me know when you are free, and i’ll take you out to dinner.

after this i was rather confused. i haven’t messaged her back, and my plan was to call her in a few days.

I don’t know if she is lacking in attraction and that is the problem or if i need to apply some extra comfort because of her lack of trust for guys. I havn’t stopped opening other sets because of this, but i’m wondering what you guys think about this.

2

Well if she offers to take you out to dinner, I would kindly accept the date and go to the restaurant, but I would definately pay for the meals. You should continue dating and see what happens and ask her what she thinks of you two together.

3

Chances are she obviously has some like for you, if she didn’t at all I really think she wouldn’t invite you to go out with her! Let alone go out with you at all; I think that maybe she does like you but is just obviously scared. Her “trying” to hook you up with her friends sounds like it was a test for you. Luckily you answered her the way you did because that would’ve been some points deducted for you.

Just take it easy, and don’t rush it! She wouldn’t let you touch her if she wasn’t comfortable with you or maybe did not like you at all. Take it easy and slow, but still fight back with intent. Just not TOO much intent or force until she feels better trusting you. The key here is to continue to show interest while not scaring her away with premature moves. You can do it, make her laugh and feel comfortable all while throwing hints just as you’ve been doing. However, slowlyyy and carefullyyy planned. Like a game of chess.

4

Sounds like you got ahold of a “nice” grl with some of the old cultural values. Perhaps a rareity in modern Shanghai. You may have a precious treasure on your hands.

It sounds like she really likes you.

My advice - 1. If you’re looking for a fling just go away and leave her alone. Don’t screw up her life and her psyche, and reinforce the “ugly American” stereotype.

    • If you think you might be interested in a long-term relationship with her, just think of her as a “good girl” from the 50’s. Understand that she is already highly attracted to you, but has internal standards that are preventing her from acting like the other girls. I wouldn’t push her for sex, but do continue to make it evident that you are sexually and romantically attracted to her. Show her that you are strong and capable, but that you respect her and are not out just to use her and toss her away.

My experience with a “good girl” from this culture is that once in a long term relationship you may never want to look anywhere else.

Do you have some ig? If not, I advise getting some. Wear it when you meet her family too.

5

To be honest GWTW, a fling is the last last last thing on my mind. It is everything i can do to not jump around and scream like a little girl about how happy i am that i met her, but i haven’t nailed it down yet, and I’m so nervous i’m going to act too excited or do something wrong and she wont like me(as experience has led me to believe is very possible). so far, she is the perfect girl.

a little background. she’s not from shanghai as you guessed, from a rural area, the 7th child of an obviously large family. speaks just about no english(for which I am very proud of my chinese)

today, she called me 3 times(or so she said) but my phone card had no money on it. so i didn’t get her calls. she called a fourth time just after i had put money on my phone card, She asked me if i had eaten yet and said she had waited for me(it was like 8:30, native chinese people usually eat at 5, but that is a generalization. last night i ate with her at like 7ish). I had eaten, and I was on my way to a birthday party.

I suggested we get together on sunday(its friday night here) and she said “call me on sunday”, sounding suprisingly ‘unreactive’

It has been a VERY long time since i’ve had this much trouble controlling my emotions over a girl. i hate outcome dependancy, and I know better, but sometimes the heart just runs…

I do indeed have instant gentleman. along with many other things.

so far she’s been around me with: A314, ammo and p83.

I’m wondering if maybe a switch of a314 with IG would be enough, or if i should just work something all new:

option 2:

IG x2
Betanol x20mcg
p74 x 25mcg(this one is iffy, great with guys, but i’m unsure how useful it will be here.
p83x20-25mcg
ammo x1

wha’dya think?

6

So, she’s been hurt before and now has trust issues. Well, you’ve got to gain her trust. I have a feeling this won’t be easy to do. She obviously wants to trust you though… Firstly, I would lay off all sexual advances for a good long while. Get physical with her but in a non-sexual way. Try to get close by holding her, snuggling, hugging, etc. You want to try to build up an “I’m there for you” feeling. As soon as you make a sexual move, she will put up her defenses and it will be all over for that encounter. (I told you that it would be hard!) When she is ready for more, she will let you know… Let her make the first move. Phero-wise, I have never tried Instant Gentleman, but I think I would try some instant honesty for deep verbal connections, Instant Female Magic to help ease her mind and make her feel comfy with you. (help drop her guard a bit) And, maybe just a touch if -none (not much!) to help ward off the friend zone. <- though i’m not sure about this one… any thoughts?

Good luck!

-Bee

7

All this advice we’ve given you sounds just about right for your situation bud. I know how you feel right now, because that’s exactly how I felt when I first met my wife (not to say that I don’t anymore he, he.) When I mentioned that she was probably testing you when she was trying to hook you up with her friends was a possibility. However, another thing comes to mind as well. MAYBE it wasn’t a test, but just INSECURITY? If that is the actual reason, then she’s in need of your patience even more. What you need to do here is bring her up, tell her just how beautiful you think she is. Hell, even write her a poem showing your emotions for her. Sometimes it’s easier writing things down on paper than actually trying to say them or do them.

Just continue what you’re doing though! Patience young one!

8

It sounds like she really likes you, but she has trust issues and she’s inexperienced! I mean, I was super shy when I was inexperienced. For all you know, she’s only kissed one guy. And I’ll bet you anything that, coming from a small town, she knew that guy for a long time before they got intimate.

Well, she seems very interested in you, but - as someone already advised - stop “making the kino more sexual.”

Keep it light and friendly, pull away a little bit physically, and soon you’ll have her wondering “Why isn’t he touching my lower back anymore? Is he starting to see me as a friend? God I want to kiss him.” :stuck_out_tongue:

9

Makes me smile picturing you doing this. :stuck_out_tongue: Just funny imagery.

How many days has it been since you had that in your OP? Has it been over 5 days? maybe she’s getting the feeling that you really are not into her anymore. If it’s been like 2-3 days, I wouldn’t be concerned about it as much.

I like option 2. I’m not sure how much b-nol is in IH, but I’d aim for around a 2-3 spray dosage. p74 goes very well with IG and IH, but I’m not so sure about p83 (only because it’s a putative), I’m not sure about how well it’d balance out, but I think you could up the p74 to around 35-40mu. I might take out, or drastically reduce the amount of p83, maybe to about 5mu because it might be causing too much tension for her. I would consider throwing in a spray or two of IFM if you have it.

You could vary the amount of p83 over time, to increase the sensation of tension like how TUTH is supposed to work. The p74 and IG is just smooth and suave, the Ammo keeps it interesting, and the b-nol promotes that connection.

I see it as bit of a ‘leap of faith’ combo. Like baby, you gotta have faith and jump, but I’ll be there waiting with a big soft pillow to catch you…er something like that.

10

how would people feel about a more simple option 2

A314 x2
20 mcg betanol
2x IO

A314 has some none and plenty of rone among other things.
Bnol to feel connection
IO for standard purposes

11

I think using A314 instead of IG and Ammo is a judgment call. Consider the positives of A314 and the negatives of A314. Then consider the positives of IG and Ammo, and their respective negatives. Decide which negatives and positives you want.

A314 has high value, which never hurts, but as you know, can cause distance. This distance can always be diminished through a shift in behavior. I consider IG to be softer than A314, which might be more effective in a situation like this. Ammo for me is just a plus, -none not really being a pheromone I rely on. A314 can’t make up for p74’s effects either.

But you know the girl and yourself better than I could hope to. Use your best judgment.

12

That’s probably good. She does like you. Don’t play a game. Think of your pheromones like your clothes and put on what you think will go good that day. Try to be true to your inner self. If she sees that inner self and likes it you’re good to go.

13

Hi Perronec,

I think a simple blend of A314 and Instant Openess would be fine. In fact, the more simple, and subtle the better. In fact , Instant Openess on its own may be the best thing to wear.

She obviously likes you, but is a bit bashful/traditional. Throttle back a little bit and just play it cool.

You have feelings for her too it seems. Maybe the kino escalation made her uncomfortable. But she still showed interest after the “date”.

Let her take you out and just see where it goes with just a communication chemical onboard. It may be surprising…

14

Hey man,

Judging from the way you described your progression model, you are in C2 of Mystery Method. I would not reccommend escalating your kino,…play it like ‘cat-string theory’. You are giving too much for her, and thus she has not yet felt that feeling of losing you.

Do the push and pull, take 1 step back and 2 steps forward. For instance, there are certain things that you do regularly with her weekly. Try it 1 time that you purposely miss it and spend time with your friend.

One time I was in your similar situation, she will not let me excalate. We always go watch movie every single week since we started seeing each other. At 1 time, I just cancel that movie and spend time with my friend. She doesn’t need details about what I did. She was wondering about what I did, so she called me and asked about it. I just said that I was spending time with some friends playing poker, then I said that we could watch movie the day after which she agreed, and I started escalating into kiss during the movie. She kissed me back and it was a happy ending.

I think you game is pretty tight, keep it up and I hope you will be with her. Because I think she’s all worthied and you have gone all your way just to be with her.

I wish you all the best. :slight_smile:

15

random, I think you are right on the money.

I didn’t go out with her last night dispite her calling me 4 times, and ignored most of her text messages. told her i was going to an evening event.(sounds less wordy in chinese)

today I never contacted her, got this message while i was taking a nap

“perronec, 有点想你。。。公园好热闹，真好玩 :slight_smile:”

for those of you who can’t read chinese, in that first part she is saying she misses me. after that something about a park being boistrous or bumpin’ and fun. (热闹 is a tough one to translate exactly, its more of a vibe like ‘bumpin’, but they say it really commonly)

anyway. this almost proves you to be correct random. i just needed to take my self away from her and make her miss me.

Thanks for all your help guys, i appreciate it tremendously. please excuse me while i turn up my music and dance crazy happy style in my apartment…then try to act like its not a big deal…

16

Hi Perronec,

I can’t help but to burst out laughing reading the last paragraph of your message, the picture in my head was so vivid that it would just be so animated and exhilarating.

It’s cool that I can at least help you a little with your problems. However, with the use of pheromones, I am still in the trial and error process myself so I will not be able to give you any assistance regarding that matter.

But not to worry, there are plenty of people know what they are doing with pheromones here. And from what I can see, they have been trying to help you.

Good Luck,

17

Just a little update, you all deserve to hear the victory story , thanks to all you guys again.

the mix:
IG x2
IO x2
ammo x1
p83 5mcg
Bnol 20mcg

I called her on sunday at noon, i’m still in bed with a bit of a hangover, but I didn’t want to wait too long, incase she made plans. Call her, no answer, she calls me back. i tell her i’ll meet her in a few hours, and we’ll go downtown together.

we go down town, hang out, walk here there, chat, eat ice cream.

I ask her if she wants to see a magic trick and tell her to close her eyes. I just kiss her right there. she had a weird look on her face, and didn’t kiss back. later she said it wasn’t a problem, but it was just so different from what chinese guys would do. If anything, i think it just established that there was a definite course set for our relationship, and there wouldn’t be stalling due to lack of escalation.

walk, chat, touch, chat, walk, eat light dinner, head back to my place for a movie.

we in fact watch the whole movie(rounders), it was good, start making out directly after. :stuck_out_tongue::stuck_out_tongue::stuck_out_tongue:

move the party to my bedroom, then she runs back to the living room saying she won’t go, so i just pick her up and carry her. i have wii, so i whip that out and start making her a funny looking character. things are going much more smoothly and comfortably now. lots more making out later, i finally found her little "i can’t control myself zone which happens to be lightly biting her neck. at that point i had to put myself in control and slow down, because she was giving in completely. I don’t think her 1 chinese boyfriend before had done much in the line of making her feel liked or cared for in the bedroom. she barely knew how to kiss. I’m starting to wonder if she is a virgin. I told her it was getting to be time to go back to her dorm.

she agreed in that reluctant sort of way where she said “i’m not coming over any more, this is bad” but kept trying to kiss me.

“i’m not coming over any more”
kiss
“i am busy tomorrow and the next day”
kiss
“i …”
kiss

then she left.

Boys and girls, i am on cloud nine right now.

Comments about the mix:
today was touchy, and comfortable. while not impulsive maybe comfortable just going for it. talking was heavier at the beginning, but picked up at the end again. She said I smelled “not bad, but strong” at the beginning of the date, and later when in the bedroom said i smelled good.

I think the ammo scent is a little ‘strong’ for some asians. this is the problem i think i ran into before. its not the mix they run from, just the strength of the smell. I’m going to try some thing game scented and see what she thinks of that next time.

FYI my ammo’s are old togo’s of the original scent before it was changed.

18

Great story! I like the part about the magic trick.

One competative advantage you have over many of the Chinese guys is that you are making your interest explicitly known, and being overtly romantic. Chinese ladies tend to really like those aspects of western culture. Don’t forget her on Valentines day.

She probably really is concerned about letting herself go. It might be a good idea to talk it over sometime during lunch and let her know that even though you are strongly attracted to her you understand and respect her values and that is why you stopped things before they got too out-of-hand. She still may be reluctant to put herself in that situation again but there will be another part of her that wants to. Just don’t push things and let her own internal feelings do the work.

19

Perronec, I nominated this thread because I think it really synthesizes a lot of what we are all looking for on this forum. Thanks for starting it.

20

Nice, I like that.

How would you tweak it now? Anything out of balance? Anything you’d want to emphasize more?

I agree, despite the fact that it’s 1/2 strength, it’s still too much for me. It doesn’t smell bad, but it smells too much. I dunno, there’s a funny note to the smell that I’m not the fondest of. OTOH, the Game scent isn’t my favorite either and I’d avoid wearing it too.