Interesting perspective, Tisha. Not what I was expecting to hear. 
My Korean grandfather and grandmother were married when only 10 and 9 years old respectively. The marriage was arranged of course and that age was the norm in early 20th century Korea. Realize most people didn’t live past the age of 40…
Yeah, this guy definitely had some sort of social dysfunction going on. I never felt scared, as though he would rape me, but just really uncomfortable.
I know you guys go on and on complaining about the “friend zone” thing, but that is an absolutely necessary step with most girls if you want to to go further. One thing at a time.
I think you need to show a girl that you are interested in “more than friends” early on (so she doesn’t get too settled into the just friends thing, and she knows which way the wind’s blowing), but in a mellow way (DON"T whip it out, lol), like asking her on a date, and call it a date (rather than saying “lets hang out” which to me indicates that a guy just wants to be friends).
He never did come back over (that I know of, though I’ve been mostly at work since then), and now in the past couple of days I find myself closing the front door more (usually I have it open with the screen door part closed, let the breeze in and all that). Especially if I have to take a shower.
I hope he doesn’t come back, unless perhaps to apologize (which I suspect is highly unlikely, but you never know).
I’m sorry but that’s just bullshit. Friend zone isn’t a step along the way, it’s an inescapable hell and the worst invention of mankind since the atom bomb.
lol. If a girl isn’t that interested in the beginning, it is likely to end up that way anyway. It sucks but what can you do. Soemtimes, you can sway it to your favor, but if they aren’t attracted to you things won’t suddently change. If they just want to be friends, and you don’t like it, go find other girls!
My point was, that for a girl, she needs to feel friendship with a guy before she will want to see his weenie.
Actually its not bullshit. The friend zone is there for a purpose. To tell you that I just want to be friends. I am not interested in you sexually at this time but I like you as a person.
Its not a invention its a necessity of life. We are not attracted to every person we meet or who is attracted to us. Think of all those who are in your friend box. We all have them. Maybe one of those people are sitting there feeling just as sorry for themselves as you.
Also keep in mind that attraction doesn’t have to be instant either. I was friends with my husband for years before we got married. I didnt put him in the friend box he stuck me there. Of course I didnt sit around waiting for him though LOL
One thing I’m noticing with a lot of guys nowadays, especially younger ones, is that many of them want only sex, or nothing at all, friendship is not even considered (what an insult to a girl!). They are disappointed to be told “no” for sex, so forget being friends.
It makes me think of something I read somewhere about something called the “Millenial kids” (or something like that), where there is a whole generation in which “every kid gets a trophy” in sports games, and they never learn how to accept losing, and in that same vein, they also don’t realize that you have to work for the things you want, it doesn’t just fall into your lap when you want it.
The thing about the friendzone that women have a hard time understanding is that from a mans perspective it’s not a mutually beneficial relationship and in most cases is as insulting to a guy as not wanting to be friends is to a girl.
Few women are aware of this but do you know what the popular term is among guys for being a womans “friend”. It’s called being an “emotional tampon” See most guys start showing interest in a woman and the woman says she wants to start off as friends. The guy, being a nice guy reluctantly agrees to the terms she dictates. Yet later since the relationship is beneficial to her without requiring any escalation of commitment on her part she has no interest in it going anywhere. When the guy after being friends for a while decides to try again for a more romantic/sexual relationship, he is told that it’d be a bad idea because it might ruin the friendship…the platonic friendship he didn’t want in the first place.
Now speaking from personal experience here so please forgive any bitter undertones, but when I’ve been the “friend” what that usually meant was that I got to watch the girl go out with guys that were soooooooo unbelievably unhealthy choices that you’d have to be as stupid as Sandra Bullock to be surprised that the guy slept with more women than Wilt Chamberlain and Ellen Degeneris combined.
So I would warn the girl against him, and endure the “But you just don’t know him like I do” cliche’s and predictably once a month my phone would ring or there would be a knock at the door and she would be in tears because he got drunk and wrecked her car…on his way home from another woman’s house…who is pregnant with his kid…and gave him crabs…that he passed on to her…yeah.
And I would be the shoulder she cried on, the ear that listened and I’d say all the kind words she needed to hear. And she would go back to him once she dumped her monthly flow of misery on my shoulders and was feeling better about herself.
That’s pretty insulting to a guy, we’re good enough to help the woman sort through the consequences of her own bad judgment but we’re not good enough to sleep with.
What’s worse is when women try and make it sound like them having two categories of “guys for sex” and “guys for friendship” and being stuck in category two is supposed to be something we should be happy about.
I finally cut my losses on one girl some time ago. She’s now married to a guy that is actually pretty nice and reminds me a lot of myself back in the days when we hung out. Course he has an ulcer, is losing his hair and working himself into an early grave helping her raise the kids that were conceived by the asshole I had been trying to warn her about who fled the state to avoid child support. So yeah guys are a little reluctant to be “just friends” with a woman we’re romantically interested in. It doesn’t mean we don’t like her as a person, or don’t respect her. It just means we’re really not ready to watch some other guy/s come in and out of her life that she DOES think are sex worthy and then have to be told about it later…especially if she’s having problems because the guy is all of the bad things we’re not.
Now I know that’s not all women. I’m 38 and have been around enough to know that. And I’m not defending this guy, just whipping out El Presidente and his two bodyguards like that warrants a severe ass beating. I’m NOT defending HIM. I simply want to express what I used to deal with and what millions of guys every day deal with when friendism is thrown out there. It hurts. You might not consider it a “rejection” because you don’t see “let’s just be friends” as being the same as “get lost jerk” but to a gender that defines itself in many ways by their ability to attract the opposite sex, they may as well be the same. It hurts and every time we see the girl we’re interested in going out with a guy we know won’t treat her as well as we want to…knowing that he’s probably gonna hurt her and she’s gonna want to cry about it to us. Is not only insulting, but almost sadistic, each time we hear about it, it’s salt in the wound.
Yes, I have platonic female friends, but they’re not women I’m interested in. I wouldn’t be so masochistic as to put myself through that. And I have a rule. Talk about your guy problems to your female friends. My penis to too loud for me to hear what you have to say about other men.
Now I apologize to any ladies present that might find this perspective offensive or insulting. I truly mean no disrespect. I simply wish to enlighten you as to what MILLIONS of men feel and why they feel that way but might not always articulate.
Maybe my rules about being friends with women makes me an asshole. I don’t think so but I have been wrong before.
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I love the friend zone. No pressure, no bullshit, no entitlement–just chillin’. Sometimes it turns into something more, fine. If not, you have a friend–they last much longer than lovers–and often she has a hot friend to introduce you to. I prefer to be friends with a woman for an extended length of time so I can get to know her before anything serious happens. Getting to know someone new is interesting at least, often exciting, and is worthwhile in and of itself. If it does morph into something serious, eventually the sex and romance will mellow but the friendship will still be the foundation of a lasting relationship. The friend zone is not a contest and, if it doesn’t “escalate” (hate that term) to something more, it was still fun. I still feel like I came out ahead.
I’ve noticed some guys, especially younger guys, tend to want things their way or it’s the highway. The lack of patience and sensitivity to what she wants and feels is extremely telling of how successful a lover or mate he’d be. Besides, only an idiot wants a woman to follow through with a relationship just because he wants it or she feels she owes it to him so his ego won’t be bruised or because he “invested” in her. Sometimes she just ain’t into you. No need to get twisted. The shoe is often on the other foot the next time around.
Well said
How does he know she doesn’t want to have sex with him? In our society and culture, women who show signs of sexual interest too early on are too often labeled as sluts. The insult to women, if sex is brought up too early, is that he may not care about her as a person, and that sex is all he wants. She’s just a meal to be dined upon, to satisfy his physical needs. Once he gets that, then he’s gone. She wants to know that he cares about her, because sex is a bigger emotional commitment to her than it is for a guy.
she needs to feel comfortable and emotionally safe with a guy, because for her, sex has meaning, and it is not something she just does with anyone.
But thats how she can really find out for herself whether she’s really attracted to him enough to have sex with him. Even if he’s physically hot and do-able, for women she needs to go a little deeper.
That means she liked you enough to want to know you and continue to know you (take that as a compliment), but realized that the physical attraction was not enough for sex and romance (or at least not yet). For many women, sexual attraction grows as she gets to know him and feel comfortable with him. The stronger the emotional bond, the more sexually attracted she can become, and the better the sex too. Unfortunately, we sometimes make bad choices, just as you do. Oops..
But, but least you have a friend now, where before you did not. So if she’s not attracted to you in that way, but still wants to know you as a person, would you rather just not know her at all? From a girl’s perspective, that hurts. If she is just an “emotional tampon” and only wants to use you for emotional comfort, again, take it as a compliment. She sees a friend in you. Whats wrong with that?
First of all, women are not like men in that way, nor do they think of and categorize them as such, for the most part. There are exceptions, as there are to anything. Women need and are looking for, sex/romance just as much as guys do. But she needs to know that there actually is romance/interest there, beyond the sex. If a guy is just looking to get off, and doesn’t give a rat’s ass about her, that hurts.
Well, oops, shoulda had a V-8. Move on, find someone else (there are plenty of fish in the sea).
I do understand, you feel a bit of jealousy and hurt. Its the same for us you know, a guy we like and maybe kinda sorta went out with a bit, hoping for more, but then he ends up with someone else. Yeah, it sucks.
Though I think its different for girls in that the guy she liked but went with someone else will pretty much cut the line and not want to “be friends” with her anymore. Girls are different in that they are more emotional creatures and place a higher value on relationships in general. Why do you think they like Lifetime movies so much? Relationships are important, and if she places any value on continuing to know you, even just as a friend, she will because she sees something in you worth continuing to know.
Its not necessarily a rejection. Wording is important. For me, if I find myself in a situation in which a guy I am interested is going too fast for me, I tell him that I would like to know him better first, the word “first” being the key indicator. This means I’m interested, but just need to be sure that my affections are not misplaced. I would not even pretend to be “friends”. With Mr. Cockshow, I actually was a little interested (before the display), and initially told him, when his sexual interest began to show a little, from requests to kiss and such, I said, “let’s be friends first”, again, “first” being an indicator of possible real interest. But then after he persisted in his display, my possible interest decreased to zero.
If I really felt “get lost jerk” towards him, he would definitely not rate as even a potential friend. This guy almost instantly made it into the total jerk category (and not the “Instant Jerk” kind even).
Totally understandable, I don’t blame you a bit. But remember, never just assume. We, as different genders, just need to understand where each other is coming from a little more, and a little better. Its not hard to do, its all about communication.
Lot of interesting views on this encounter, personally i would never every dream of doing what this fellow did, but then again i have big issue with rejection so women usually have to do the female equivalent of caveman dating to get me.
One thing that intrigues me is how this fellow knew your address?
Even being a guy i would not give out my address to someone i had just meet casually for chat in a bar or any other place, and would always recommend to women to never to do this.
This could be because i have seen the worst side of people and so always air on the side of caution. I am sure you never meant or even did send out signals of interest but from speaking to women i know that some men expect all woman fancy them as these men see themselves as attractive and cannot understand why women would not fancy them, so just by talking to them they see it as a come on.
Example, a women i friends with at dancing was telling me of guy with thought she and her friend fancied him, when told they did not he replied, ‘but i am good looking and have good body, why would you not fancy me?’
Now i can tell her friend is very much into me, loads of IOI even taking me out for my birthday, think A314 is working here, but i have never made any advances with her.
My advice, be yourself which seems friendly and open but keep you personal, which includes last name, details private until you can very sure the person is genuine.
As to this friend-zone issue, i can only see this as an issue if guys want to have sex with every women they meet and sex is the only goal with women. I for one do not want to have sex with every woman i meet, and being in friend-zone can be good place as there is no pressure. It can also social proof you to other women who may be interested as they see that other women have let you past their nutty checkpoint.
Being in the friend-zone of a women you really like is not a good place but if you have not let her know that you like her to start with, and this does not have to be overtly sexual but can be compliments and light flirty then you only have yourself to blame.
That said if you are after a long term relationship then this not a bad thing as many long term friendship has morphed into a lasting relationship.
Being in friend-zone can be due to many reasons and one is that they simple don’t fancy you which you have to be ready for and except, it maybe due to fact they are already seeing someone or have other things going on in their life. They may see you as long term relationship material but are not ready for that yet.
My experience is that if a women is interested she will let you know, if she really likes you and you don’t respond then she will just become more obvious.
Don’t fret if you think you are in a friend-zone, think about why you are if you caused and just enjoy the friend-ship and use your social proofing to attract other women. Also don’t forget guys can put women in friend-zone too!
As to the why young guys just seem to want sex and not friendship, i think , up to a point, this has always been the case. That said the easy access to porn and the sexually objectification of women has increased this. Add to this the fact that young people (men) now tend to only mix and socialise with their peer groups and not with older age range their moral compass is a little off.
It used to be that young people mixed more with older age range, including women who would defiantly off the sexual agenda but could be friends and life mentors and so friendship with women just for friendship stake was more the norm.
After many years working with young people this lack of social integration with older age range is not good for the development of young people as they do not get the required guidance and boundaries.
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Thank you, Bubblecatcher, well said.
He didn’t know my address, its a very small area, and when I said I lived in a previously abandoned house by the Senior Center, how was I to know that he would come here? He also knew what my car looked liked, because there were hardly any cars in the parking lot at the restaurant/bar (it was early afternoon).
No one is a asshole and I understand your perspective if the girl you described only bothers with you when she needs something, I have male and female friends who do that and its not called friendship its called using. That’s a different thing all together, in that case you would be a emotional tampon because tampons are things we use and throw away. If a person dosent hang out, call or bother with you unless something is going wrong in there life I consider that a energy vampire and I avoid them if possible. I dont blame anyone for that.
I think its insulting that to men, or should I say boys, we are good enough to sleep with but not good enough for friendship.
Well at least you know your ruled by your ego and admit it. You can only be friends with a women your not interested in (which is odd because if they are not interesting why be friends at all) and you put limitations on the friendship which is really not being a friend. I find that sort of sad myself.
I dont want to insult but you did say your penis was to loud. Maybe its time you stopped listening to your penis. Your brain is not located there your ego is.
My best friend is a male and he has been my best friend for over 20 years. He is not my husband. He is in no way a emotional tampon and no one would dare call him that. We share good times and we share bad times. He tells me about his various relationship problems with women and I tell him about mine. We hang out together, wax our cars together, play poker together. work together etc etc Its a balanced friendship. I know everyone is wondering because I get asked alot. No we dont have sex. Would there be a romantic interest between us if I were not married ? I would say yes and I know he would say the same. He is not sitting around waiting for me or anything like that. He has had the same GF for over 8 years now and is very happy with her. I have asked him if it bugs him to be in the friends box. He told me women dont put guys in the friends box. The guys ego puts him there.
I think a lot of people get divorced because they never learn how to be friends with the opposite sex. When you first get married, sex is a constant but after 5 or 10 years if you cant be friends with your partner your screwed because that is the foundation that holds a relationship together. Some people take longer building there foundation then others.
These two statements are perfect and display what separates The men (above ) with the boys (the below)
Men rule there own egos Boys let there ego’s rule them.
Tisha
Honestly tell me that you do not have women seperated into two catogories.
Girls you would bang >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Girls you wont bang.
At least we consider the one’s who fall into the no bang group worthy as a person enough to be friends with them. Guys dont and you wonder why women get insulted.
No its not a happy experience to be stuck anywhere you dont want to be stuck. Its not a good feeling to not have your feelings returned but its childish to stomp your foot and say “If I cant bang you I dont like you at all”
I always find it amusing that the very thing guys complain about they are doing to those around them but there egos tell them its ok.
Tish
Living in small community and saying you live in “previously abandoned house by the Senior Center” is as good a giving out your address especially when you add that he knows you car.
You will have to excuse my lack of faith in people but when it come people i don’t know i always air on side of caution, and the nicer and they are more cautious i am. Psychopaths have knack of being the most charming people and can quickly gain the confidence of others, but they have no moral compass and are very dangerous.
My advice don’t give out any information that can be used to track you down, you will be surprised just how much you can learn about someone without even asking direct questions.
Example, there is woman i like at dancing, it did not take me long to work out that she had broke up with boy friend, worked as a lawyer, and was bossy by nature, and this without having lot conversation with her.
I did not make a move on her as could see the sadness in her eyes from breakup, plus bit slow in making moves. How did i know she had broken up i with boyfriend, her eyes, the fact that she was at dancing a lot even on friday and saturday nights, and when not she visited her parents, add to this the fact that she reject all the guys who did make moves on her.
How did i know she was lawyer, the cloths she wore when coming straight from work, the way she used language, side stepping questions as you would expect from lawyer, and on one occasion after telling me i was a bit intimidating she then said ‘no i did not mean that, i retract that statement!’ now who uses that phrase in real life?
By the way i am not really intimidating but can be quite when you don’t know me which causes this effect.
As to the bossy part, i got this from watching her interaction with other and how she danced, when i told her at a party that she was bossy she really surprised that i knew as she thought she was hiding it, she went dancing as there she felt she did not have to be in charge and bossy as her job required her to be (another clue). This hit a nerve as in next dance night she brought it up and was still surprise i had worked it out.
I get on really well with her and there is some chemistry, i can tease her and she feels comfortable enough to tell me off in playful manner. I had learnt a lot about her without even having a lot of in depth interaction, when i did eventual hint i would ask her out she, she told me she broke up with BF last year and did not want to date anyone from dancing. Not what i wanted to hear but life goes on, i have not seen her since as have not been dancing due to operation but will probably bump into her monday when i will dance with her as we dance well together. I still like her but with interest from other women i know am not going bang head against a brick wall as she not interested.
As to confirming her being a lawyer, just typing her name into google soon confirmed she was and good one at that.
The point being that in this day and age if you are good at observing people and use technology such as google, social networking sites and other information sites people can track you down and know about your life with just the smallest amount of information.
Be careful what information you give out as you have already found out it does not take a lot to enable others to find you.
I would also add that inviting this guy into your house was not good idea, if you wanted to chat with him more then i suggest that you offer to go local bar. An invitation into a woman house, especially one just met, can and often is interpreted by men as being green light for sex.
You seem very open and friendly and this good, but just be a bit more cautious of people you have just meet and know nothing about other than what then have told you.
The part with the hat was kind of funny ha…
Geeez! No respect! If someone ever whipped it out on me like that I would immediately tell them it is time to go home now no room for talking or i’m sorrys just leave now bye-bye… You should never have to feel uncomfortable in your own home i’m sorry sillykitty!
Also what I do if someone is trying to get physical, I am not into it, and they are not getting it I tell them. I say something along the lines of please don’t make me feel uncomfortable in my own home or you are making me uncomfortable and i’m not happy right now etc. at this point things usually separate into 2 categories
- being this makes the light bulb go on in their head that you are not happy with this and to get it together / apologize and stop or
- they don’t seem to get it still (which is really disappointing/can be a bit scary and happens from time to time) at which point I stop everything and make them leave. Usually works for me.
Wow, guess what? He just stopped by again! I was typing responses to Madison’s and Bubblecatcher’s posts and suddenly there was a knock on the door. I couldn’t very well ignore it and “hide” as I would have liked to have done, because I had not yet closed the solid part of my front door plus I was right there in the living room typing on my laptop. I said, are you gonna behave, and he said yes. I said, okay, but you can’t stay long, I have to work early, I was just going to bed soon.
I said, dude you know what time it is? He was like, yah, well, just wanted to hang out, came from Kona, kinda drunk (he actually didn’t seem drunk though 
). Tried to pull the, can I stay with you thing, can’t drive. I reminded him that he just lived around the corner, lol. No inappropriate displays this time, though the “pretending-to-be-more-drunk-than-he-really-was” thing was pretty transparent and slightly boring.
And his hair was different. The other day it was dark brown with blond-tipped (I guess thats the style with stylish Hawaiian boys these days), now the roots are blond too. Personally, I think he’d look better with his natural dark brown.
What does this mean?
I didn’t think he would come back, but but he did. I’m not going to play with his feelings, if he has any beyond lust. Unfortunately his first move was majorly bad, I’m not sure what he could possibly do to recoup from that with me. I am so not interested at this point, as I said, he would really have to pull a major comeback in some way, I have no idea how.
I am also a little older than he is, though I’m pretty sure he doesn’t realize it. And though I have no idea of his taste in music, I am almost 100% sure that it is vastly different from mine. He totally seems like rap/Hawaiian reggae/small low-rider car thats so in style and can’t even drive over speed bumps sideways baseball cap and all that, whereas I am more of a heavymetal/musclecar kind of girl.
The only reason I didn’t tell him to fuck off was - 1. Because of our conversation here, this could be an interesting study of human behavior, and 2. I was really surprised he came back, I was pretty sure he wouldn’t after my rejection the other night, and 3. Although his interest in me was obvious, he was much more respectful.
What should I do? I wouldn’t mind making this a social experiment (without any hurt feelings, of course). Any and all ideas are welcomed.