I read a while back about rogue elephants that were inexplicably flipping out and killing rhinos and just about anything else that got near them. It was later discovered these were adolescent bulls entering musth…a sort of mini puberty where the testosterone levels spike by a couple hundred percent.
Nobody knew why at first, but they realized in capturing and redistributing the male populaion, they had formed bachelor groups without older dominant bulls to lead.
In an experiment to solve the matter, older bulls were captured and relocated with groups of younger bulls. The result was the young males entered musth less often and for shorter periods of time…as though the very presence of a mature male leader had a calming effect.
Could this effect be pheromonal? And more…could this effect explain why so many incidence of violent youth are attributed to an absence of a positive male role model in our own species?
I’m curious if the mones they produce act in a similar fashion as smoke to bees. If they put off a stronger sent or something of the sort to block or subdue…I would imagine that could be a a reason of sorts. With the positive male role idea…I really think that is less pheromone and more genetic make-up, personality, religious views (if any), experience, and morality. I’ve had a pretty crummy role-model, but I act more “tame” than those who have had more admirable role models.
Now this is mere speculation of course, but interesting all the same.
Such an interesting thought,and although there must be patterning and psychosocial reasons, could there also be physical ones as well? Clever thought on your part.
Well in the video reports I’ve seen on the subject when the older bulls were initially introduced into the younger bachelor groups, the young males of course would be confrontational. I’m not an expert on reading the body language of animals but the older bulls seemed to be very bored and unimpressed with the displays as if saying “Bitch please!, I’m a grown ass man.” And the younger bulls called down after that.
Now knowing that in humans, None levels are high at youth, but decrease as we get older…while Rone levels tend to increase as we get older. It’s as if the presence of an A314 type of man had a calming effect on the very young and hot headed Instant Jerk type. I don’t know how much, if any of these effects are actually pheromone based but I’m curious since elephants have a great sense of smell.
Now of course having a mature male role model can effect young troubled males in ways beyond natural instinct, same as attraction requires more than a spray of Ammo. But I can’t help but wonder if a high Rone signature coupled with mature calmly dominant behavior can effect young human males in the same way that an older established Bull Elephant does on young angry Bulls.
This reminds me of my years in a high school classroom. When the classes had younger male teachers, who were closer to the age of the students, the teen males would challenge the new male teachers and make their job very tough. The older male teachers, even the ones who were tough and had high standards, were often loved by the teen males, ( at least most of them) and the classroom would become more respectful in general and easier to handle.
Young, new female teachers would be tested severely by the teen females, and were often pitied a bit by the male teens, who would often try to be polite to them ( although not all of them) and the older, female teachers would maintain the respect of the teen girls, and had to walk a tightrope to gain and maintain both the respect and the affection of the teen boys. The only thing that seemed to work was to be dazzling, interesting,considerate, funny, hold very high standards, and never show weakness, ever.
However, even then, the best classrooms were usually the ones where a strong role model had won them!
I was liked, respected,even loved sometimes ( I still have students who are now adults walk over to tell me I was loved by them, which brings me tears) however, many of the teen boys loved some of the tough male teachers and it was really fun to listen to the kids talk about them. Usually it was a story about how very tough the old guy was on them, but it was said with affection. Of course not all students felt that way, but on average it seems as if they did. High school is a great time for male role models in the classroom, and I wish more men became teachers.
I certainly have seen the challenging and testing behaviors that teen boys exhibit around grown men, and it is really great to see them settle into a healthy and respectful relationship with their teacher, the teen boys almost seem relieved, and glad that they can settle down and learn something, and that the class is under control. Like elephants!
Consider too, that elephants have a strict social hierarchy, they take care and look after the old, the sick, injured and deformed - and have funerary ‘rites’ (they mourn their dead). They actively teach the young and adolescents start to take responsibility for the ‘toddlers’ - baby sitting, in fact. And all the other behavioural, learned and developed skills, traits, and adaptations just to survive in their current world. Just animals?
I agree, I think that the distinctions between species are artificial-that many other species have emotions and thoughts and even the ability to self reflect.I dont eat mammals and birds because of it. Ever read about Alex the parrot or KoKo the gorilla, or about the border collie who has the ability to understand a vocabulary of thousands? there are also tests with dogs who are able to look at a photograph of something and fetch it- which means they generalize information! People cant do that till they are about two.
One scent woos elephants and insects. Science News, 149, Mar 9, 159.
By analyzing 4000 liters of elephant urine, researchers isolated the pheromone that appears just before ovulation and alerts males to the female’s readiness to mate. Insects use the same pheromone but it is combined with other chemicals to elicit the elephant’s response. Elephants sometimes get erections from the samples.
Rasmussen, L.E.L., Lee, T.D., Roelofs, W.L., Zhang, A., & Daves Jr., G.D. (1996) Insect pheromone in elephants. Nature, 379, 22 Feb, 684.
“(Z)‑7‑dodecen‑1‑yl acetate is used by the females of more than 126 species of insects…as part of their pheromone blends to attract insect males.” “That elephant and insect females use an identical molecule to signal males of their readiness to mate is an outstanding example of convergent evolution capitalizing on the chemical properties of a compound, presumably its volatility.”
This is not to say that human pheromones will make you smell like a young bull elephant. However, I had the distinct pleasure of discussing her findings with the late L.E.L (Betts) Rasmussen during conferences that she attended in the 90’s, while she was still working in Africa, and trying to get a good measure of elephant morbidity in an attempt to treat diseases (and perhaps even typical aging) before populations declined even more severely. I never heard whether she attempted to measure DHEA (the precursor androsterone) or albumin levels (as indicated in humans). But our conversations were some of the best with regard to across species comparisons of the concept of human pheromones.
I wonder how much of young human behavior is impacted by pheremones. I also wonder if there is a specific pheremone scent for a group of geneticaly related individuals that differs from other groups-which causes a sort of ‘pack bond’, and also causes a distrust of ‘otherness’ in human groups
also wonder if the showering and washing we do so much of can cause a shift in the ‘pack bond’ between people, causing people to have trouble bonding as a culture
I know from my own experience that many people who have worked with the mentally ill can smell when a schizophrenic is having a crisis (smells like burnt wires) or when there is fear in a room.
so: how much of human behavior is so impacted by this that we live our lives thoughtlessly? Can pheremones create a biological change in us? Such as for example the smell of a newborn, does it create a change in us to become receptive to it? Can pheremones create a unique neural pathway?
Another interesting thing, we have evolved along with our closest companion animals, dogs, to interprete signals from each other, and have bred dogs to become so sensitive to our signals that a dog can interprete a human hand gesture-a finger pointing to an object, although both chimps, more closely related to us, and wolves, closely related to dogs, are both unable to interprete hand signals such as a pointing finger. Dogs are also able to signal when a person is about to have a sezure or a diabetic is having bloodsugar issues, and some dogs have alerted to cancer. So, is it possible that dogs can 'read" our pheremones? Or that we can somehow read theirs?
Pheromones are unlike to create a unique neuronal pathway, but they act on the central neuronal pathway that links all sensory input to hormones and behavior.
There is some information about characteristic odors in schizophrenia in the existing literature, and I thought it was most likely linked to differences in DHEA metabolism. But others think it’s just do to poor personal hygiene, which might be worse when in crisis. It’s definitely something I think should be studied in controlled trials. The scent of fear has been.
also, not the smell of unwashed people like street people or alchoholics, who can stink . Certainly a specific smell to only schizophrenia and only when it is not under control-when off meds or having a crisis. very distinctive scent, a lot like wires burning when there is electrical short, and different from personal hygiene issues which I have smelled much of, I did social work in NY for years w disabled individuals, homeless folks.
Really useful info though because people who can smell it can get ready for intervention ahead of time, so useful as prevention tool, to get help in place before it gets too awful. Many other women in social work can smell it also, and it is a good way to tell when things may go south. But some people can not smell it.
are not memories a neuronal pathway, and we create a memory of specific scent, such as mothers scent to babies and babies to mothers, which cause us to respond to specific scent? and also other scents-husband to wife for example, and specific neuronal pathway causes response? if so then we may also be creating neuronal pathways, scent memories, in other situations when exposed to pheremones.
(1990) Unlocking the secrets of underarm odor. U.S. News & World Report, 109 (Sep 10), 10, 18(1)
“Who would have thought that the key to so many of the body’s mysteries could be found in the armpit.” RESEARCHERS REPORT FINDING THE CHEMICALS THAT PRODUCE UNDERARM ODOR, SAME CHEMICALS WERE ERONEOUSLY LINKED TO SCHIZOPHRENIA, SECRETED BY APOCRINE GLANDS, THESE CHEMICALS AFFECT THE MENSTRUAL CYCLE
Caldwell, M. (1995) Kernel of fear. Discover, 16, 6, 96‑102.
see Discover File
“How can just the smell of smoke make a veteran relive all the horrors of combat in hallucinatory detail? The answer lies in the amygdala…” AMYGDALA & CLASSICALLY CONDITIONED RESPONSE TO VARIOUS STIMULI. STARTLE RESPONSE. CROSS SPECIES COMPARISONS. NEURAL CONNECTIONS FROM AMYGDALA. IMPRINTING. WE CAN GUESS WHAT’S HAPPENING ON THE CELL‑TO‑CELL LEVEL. ALTER THE BIOCHEMISTRY OF THE AMYGDALA AND YOU ALTER THE EXPERIENCE OF FEAR. MODULATES SOCIAL BEHAVIOR, IMPLICATED IN SCHIZOPHRENIA, EPILEPSY, & ALZHEIMER’S
Comfort, A. (1971a) Communications may be odorous. New Scientist and Science Journal, Feb 25, 412‑414.
REFERENCES ARE IN TEXT OF ARTICLE NOT AT END, NO ADDITIONAL PAGES
Q1.N52
GOOD DEF OF PHEROMONE, PRIMERS, RELEASERS, SCHIZOPHRENIC SWEAT PSYCHOSOCIAL DEVELOPMENT, DIFFERENCES IN ODOR BY HAIR COLOR AND RACE, GOOD QUOTES, MOVE ODOR THERAPY INTO MAINSTREAM MEDICINE, SOURCES OF HUMAN PHEROMONES AND CORRELATES WITH BEHAVIOR. NO BIOLOGIST COULD RULE OUT THE POSSIBILITY THAT CIRCUMCISION AND HAIR REMOVAL HAVE BEHAVIORAL EFFECTS
Erb, J.L., Kadane, J.B., & Tourney, G. (1981) Discrimination between schizophrenic and control subjects by means of plasma dehydroepiandrosterone measurements. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism, 52, 181‑186.
from Clinical Guide to Laboratory Tests
REVIEW: DHEA, SCHIZOPHRENIA CORRELATES WITH ODOR IN STUDIES OF DHEA AND SCHIZOPHRENIA STUDIES OF SCHIZO VS. CONTROLS. IS DHEA A PHEROMONE? DHEA RISES AT PUBERTY AND SO DOES ONSET OF SCHIZOPHRENIA. CUSHING’S SYNDROME SIMILAR TO SCHIZOPHRENIA. DHEA INJECTIONS SOMETIMES RESULT IN IMPROVEMENT ‑‑ DHEA is LOW IN SCHIZOPHRENIA(PSYCHOSES)? CAN DISTINGUISHE WITH 100% ACCURACY, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 10 SCHIZOPHRENICS AND TEN CONTROLS USING DHEA ASSAY
Henkin, R.L. (1995) Questions and Answers: Body odor. JAMA, 273, 15, 1171‑1172.
PHYSIOLOGIC BODY PROCESSES THAT PRODUCE ODORS: LIST WITH MAJOR CONTRIBUTIONS FROM ECCRINE AND APOCRINE GLANDS. SWEAT ODOR COMES FROM VOLATILE FATTY ACIDS, STEROIDS AND AMINES EMITTED BY APOCRINE GLANDS. “…body odors are considered to have a more significant negative effect on interpersonal relationships than other sensory stimuli.” CHARACTERISTIC ODOR IN SCHIZOPHRENICS‑‑DRUG THERAPIES FOR ODOR MISPERCEPTION
For some elephant talk… I originally come from a place which is not far from a tropical wild life reserve… rouge bull elephants (ones in musth) or hungry herds entering villages are just daily facts of life there…and here is my understanding of them.
Elephant herds are matriarchal with the heard being led by the oldest female. Males are just studs… impregnating machines.. they dont have much say in the herd matters though they are physically more imposing than females.
Little elephant males when they enter puberty starts getting frisky with their sisters/aunts etc.. and that’s when they are chased / evicted out of the herd.. (to prevent inbreeding) the poor guy probably dosent understand why all those loving females who used to dot on him suddenly turned on him and chucked him out.
These young adults typically roam the forest.. yeah fully pumped up with testosterone and also distressed from loneliness.. (they are actually very social creatures… those who had a opportunity to interact with them over time will know).
these young elephants are the ones who enter musth (its an annual thing for elephants during their good years so cant be just dismissed as a puberty thing)) which makes them literally go mad with no virtually no memory of what occurred during the time.. happens with domesticated ones too. its speculated that the hormonal indused rage helps them fight and evict the studd bull of some herd so that he can himself be the studd for the herd. when the young and uninitiated fight a more experienced (and often larger) bull elephant .. he would need to be really crazy good to manage to defeat the older one.
And regarding the experiment may be it could be that presence of the herd (despite the absence of women in it) and the elder male (for elephants age and experience get u respect) could have also had an impact on reducing musth craziness (do male elephants also make similar stuff as humans ???)
I will look em up and read em