Friend zone - Need your advices

Field Reports & Anecdotal Experience Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports
1

Hi,

I’m new here. First, sorry for my bad english.

I’ve used pheromones in the past (I don’t know if I can tell the brand here) and it worked well with women, but only for one night stand. I’ve purchased an other brand on amazon recently that seems to work too, but I didn’t experienced it yet in a bar, only at work, so far so good. That’s my background with pheromones.

I’m posting here to have your advices about a girl that I’m obsessed with, in a sane way of course. I’m thinking about her everytime. The problem is that, this girl is my best friend.

Anyway, I asked her out early in our relationship, maybe too late, but she rejected my offer, saying that she doesn’t feel anything for me, however, I can still see all the signs of attraction when I’m with her.

We have had sex together twice, but the second time she told me that we shouldn’t be doing that because we are friends and it’s wrong, and I agree. It was more than one year ago. I’ve never used mones on her, because it’s only sexual and that’s not what I’m looking for, at least not in this kind of relationship.

We do a lot of activities where we are alone, and it could be the whole weekend.

I think I’m deep in the friend zone and it’s hard to charm her or make her look at me like the first months. I hope it’s not too late. She is very comfortable in my presence, the same for me. We hug for long seconds when we met, even if we have been together the day before.

I think you got it.

Now, after discovering this forum and all the hormones that I’ve never heard of before (I was thinking that mones effects are only sexual), I’m wondering if there is something that I can do to make her interested and attracted again, and I’ll take it from that point in a more natural manner.

I really don’t want to trick her feelings, just to have that first boost and, as I said, I’ll do my best to keep her. I don’t have much hope but, do you have any advice about the right product(s) that will trigger the right emotions in her?

Thank you in advance.

2

Interesting situation. When you say “we do a lot of activities when we are alone,” does that mean you guys talk, cuddle, play video games, or 69? Go in a bit more depth there.

Honestly, if your feelings are so deep for her, what I’d do is I’d see her LESS. Make yourself less available. Talk to other women. When she wants to hang out, “sorry, can’t. I’ve got plans.” If you distance yourself from her a bit, she may realize how much she misses you.

If it’s “just sex” that you want (and doesn’t seem like you do), when you’re alone with her, I’d wear some IShine with TUTH.

But in all honesty, seems like she has her mind made up on you if you haven’t had sex in a while. I’ve had sex with my best lady friend. I will never get that opportunity again, even if I wanted to.

My opinion? Find one of her hottest single friends. Ask her if she can set you guys up.

As far as the “seeing all signs of attraction,” what do you mean? Body language? I may be in the same boat. A girl that SAYS she isn’t into me but her body language says differently, and her constantly looking at me says differently. Maybe she finds you attractive and likes flirting – and that’s the extent of it. Who knows. She’s comfortable with you, she’s attracted to you, but she doesn’t feel the desire to constantly be in bed with you.

Ah well, pack your things and move on. That’s what I’d do. But definitely make yourself less available. Definitely.

3

Thank for your advices and constructive opinion. My answers below.

We went skiing, at spa, to festivals, diner, sometimes just take the car and drive with no destination just to talk and be with each others, or just watch movies one after an another til we fell asleep…

That’s exactely what I’m doing right now. I’ve not talked to her since more than a month and half, and I’m living my life normaly and she could see it on Facebook. I’m not overdoing though. I could connect manytime during the days, but on the weekend i’m not there and I don’t post photos or talk about what I’ve done, so she keep wondering. I’ve noticed that she started doing the same where that’s not in her habits, as far as I know.
I don’t like her picture, or any of her posts, where I used to like everything she posts.

The last thing she knew about me before I went of the radar was that I got in contact with an old fu… friend.

I’ve forgot to say that we’ve lost contact for about 7 months, because she was on a road trip. We got in touch just at january when she returned home.

Frankly, she doesn’t have a lot of friends, at least, I did’nt have the chance to meet them all. She was so sick, in the last year and a lot of her friend stopped contacting her. I was one of the few that stood at her side at this difficult moments.

4

So the thing with the friend-zone is if you act around her like a FRIEND, she’ll see you as a FRIEND. That’s just the way it is.

I would like to say all hope is NOT lost because you guys have had sex before, so she has wanted to see you naked and has seen you as something other than a friend in the past, but right now, I’d just go completely no contact with her. Just my opinion.

Hell, get rid of Facebook for a while. Just completely fall off the face of the earth.

Do you have guy friends? Hang out with them. Go out with them. Wear your pheros. Just experience being around other beautiful women. I’d let this girl take an exit in your life. When you bump into her again, be SO cool that she either asks you out for a coffee or insists on seeing you again. Whatever you do, just don’t contact her again. If she knows you like her, ball is COMPLETELY in her court.

I was upset at myself for telling one of my crush’s friends that I found her incredibly attractive. Of course the friend is going to go and tell her! Things were weird, but I thought about it, and hey, now she knows, now it’s up to her if she wants to make a move on it or not. It takes a LOT of balls to admit that. Most guys are to wussy to do it. You should be proud of yourself for letting her know, but don’t come on too strong. Back off. At this point, let her come to you. Hopefully when you see her again, you’ll have on some IO and AMMO.

5

Thank you again, you made some good points there.
For sure, if I’m ignoring her it’s for a purpose. I want here to contact me first. I will continue to go out with friends, may be I’ll find a girl that I’ll love that will make me forget her.

One thing I forgot to say, may be it has it’s imortance. She used to end her text messages with “I love you”, “my beloved” (not sure about the translation)… I used to reply the same.
It’s only at our second night together that I told here that she was misleading me with with all the “I love you”, that I tought she had emotions for me. She apologised, but she continued to say that in her messages, from time to time, but I never used that words again in mine.

PS: For FB, I can’t just vanish, as I use it for Professional purposes

6

Same thing happened to me. Girl I’m crushing on calls me “boo.”

Thing is, girls like to flirt, and they like to be flirted with in return. It’s all in good fun. She may see you as fun, as harmless, as a “cute” guy. You’re a friend she adores.

Honestly, people say “become a friend before you become a significant other,” but I think that’s total BS. My opinion? You needed to make it known EARLY that you had a thing for her, that you wanted her romantically, and if she wasn’t down with that, on to the next one.

That’s what you’re doing now. On to the next one. Keep Facebook up, don’t look at her profile. Fact is, a guy will show up for her eventually.

7

First, friend-zone is a great place to start. It shows bonding and attachment of the familial sort. However the friendly relationship is marked by high agreeableness. As attraction increases, you will see agreeableness steadily decline. To continue to proceed in that direction, you must let go of the expectation that she will act agreeable. In successful marriages, it is only the male’s agreeableness that correlates to marriage stability - that, and dominance. A dominant male is very persuasive, but also very generous. You have now the appearance of the sheep, and you want to keep that. Plan, and act, as the wolf, but all the while blend in as a sheep… in this way she can not predict what course events will take. Your expectation that she “Like You” is a burden which she will find distasteful, even if she disguises it. Persistent confidence and lack of fear or anxiety will pave the way.
She wants to be guided by the unseen hand. She does not know how how your plan will unfold, let alone that you have one.

Dark triad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
men exhibiting these traits (narcissism, Machiavellianism and psychopathy) appear to be more successful at generating sexual attraction in women.

a callous-manipulative interpersonal style works wonders to generate attraction from the opposite sex. Women disproportionately select for these characteristics, generation after generation.

Narcissism is characterized by grandiosity, pride, egotism, and a lack of empathy. (Frank Sinatra)

Machiavellianism is characterized by manipulation and exploitation of others; a cynical disregard for morality, and a focus on self-interest and deception. (Bernard Madoff)

Psychopathy is characterized by enduring antisocial behavior, impulsivity, selfishness, callousness, and remorselessness. (Whitey Bulger)

The dark tetrad extends the dark triad by adding everyday sadism

Each of these types also tends to be extroverted and sociable, so often make good first impressions, before going on to make life miserable for those who are exploited by them.

Generally speaking, women don’t break up with men that beat them. (I find it strange, but it seems to hold true.)
They break up with men who don’t accept their influence- 80% of the time.

She sees a pest, maybe a spider, maybe something bigger, he will quash the pest. No mercy.

Women overall have an increased interest in men who are dark, callous-manipulative, even sadistic. But only so long as her priorities can become his priorities. What she wants, he will get it done, by any means necessary. A man who inspires fear, but who aligns with her interests. She can relax with a man like this around to guard her territory… she will feel greater anxiety in his absence, or should he align with some other woman. Jealousy is a driving force here. Gloating… schadenfreude (pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others). It is not only the positive emotions that we see associated with Oxytocin bonding. While society does frown on these, they are in fact the driving force that reinforces the in-group / out-group dynamic of bonded relationships.

You will see other women express such utter disgust for these men. Read it as jealousy.
The jealousy and schadenfreude in fact give away the Oxytocin release. It’s just the flip-side of it’s effects.

Yet, their girlfriends can never seem to break up with them… or if they do, they keep coming back.
Too much envy that some other woman might snare him.

A man who lets principles and social mores get in the way of advancing her interests will never ease her anxieties to defend against existential threats. He is a perhaps a friend, but never her soldier.

8

I know quite a few guys that are empathetic, sane, kind, but confident that have absolutely gorgeous girlfriends.

In other words? I think this is BS. There’s something there with “being dark,” sure, but I find that is usually young, immature girls looking for a fling that are attracted to that kind of guy.

9

Did you know that the majority of married women were poached from previous relationships by their current partners? it’s over 60%. Which male partner do you think was kinder, saner, and more empathetic? The former male partner, or the later. Women file 80% of all divorces. Of those who divorce, 80% are remarried within 4 years.

Attractive women generally don’t go long without a boyfriend. They trade up.

The USA imprisons a MUCH higher percentage of their population than any other country - except N. Korea (difficult to substantiate).

Just imagine where all these nice men would be if we let out even a fraction of those inmates.

10

Show me the science/psychology that the previous partner was “nicer” and I’ll play ball.

11

This. It’s actually ridiculous how effective this can be with the right people, at the right time.

Yeah, girls like attention, but if it’s handed to them on a plate, there’s no chase. If she suddenly begins to think ‘why does this guy not desire me?’, it will play on her mind. Then, to her, you’re a guy with options, as you clearly must have other girls in your life better than her - at least that’s what she’ll think.

12

I’m working on that :slight_smile:

Unfortunately that’s what I’ve learned when I started to study the psychologie of women. It was difficult to do that, because as I said, she was sick and a lot of her friends just stopped contacting her. But now that she is fine it’s easier for me to ignore her. We will see :wink:

Thank you.

13

lakerman34: I don’t need your opinion or anyone’s hype, I’m only interested in evidence. It’s not my job to look things up for you. If you are curious, read some books. Browse some scholarly articles. Let curiosity be your guide. It really doesn’t matter to me if anyone here is convinced or “plays ball”. I simply gather the evidence, and post my findings. Take it or leave it. If you find evidence of interest as well, cite it.

InProgress: What we hope to achieve by putting distance between you and her is the rise in cortisol which occurs when we are separated from someone who we are bonded to. It is this rise in cortisol which drives us towards reunion. The degree to which cortisol rises in the lover’s absence is frequently used as a marker of how well bonded two individuals are. That the reunion reduces the stress of separation becomes a reward pathway. Of course, this requires some degree of bonding in the first place. Does cortisol make her more receptive to sex and dating? Yes. But she’ll be looking at her options. The one that she will go for is the one she’s the most bonded to… the one who reduces her stress most effectively.

It is important to understand how cortisol effects men and women differently. Understand that cortisol mediates cooperation vs. cheating and tactical deception. Individuals under stress will attempt to vacuum up all available resources - women who exhibit elevated cortisol will crave food, drinks, deserts, sex, etc. Elevated cortisol, caused by stress, causes women to reduce their rating of their partner in a photo, and rate other men more highly… they want to increase their access to men, because men are providers… they may increase their efforts to look attractive to other men (false messages), and become more exploitative. By contrast, elevated cortisol causes men to rate their partner higher, and other women lower… women are seen as a drain on resources, and men will want to conserve more resources for the mate, which also helps to combat competition… they will become less generous with others, less showoff-ish. Lowering cortisol reverses these effects. Touching a person, socializing, lowers stress, and cortisol goes down. Each hour a person spends working at work or doing housework increases their stress and cortisol level, however each hour of housework done will lower the cortisol level of the opposite partner. So you can see if the woman does all the housework, the husband will be less lonely, and rate other women higher, get more generous and showy with other women, she will be lonely and rate other men higher, get more flirty with other men. However if the man does all the housework, she will be less lonely and rate her husband higher relative to other men, while he will be more lonely and rate his wife highest also…they will be less flirty and showy with others. In other words, men are over-appreciated for housework, while husbands are less appreciated if the wife does housework. This why when marriages go through a rough patch, it’s the woman who files for divorce 80% of the time… especially if he won’t do any housework. These women are easy to poach, especially if she shows signs of cortisol excess - cushing’s syndrome… but of course these women are not very attractive. This is why men, when they cheat, usually cheat with women less attractive than their spouses… but who will appreciate their efforts, meanwhile women will look for a man that is a provider, confident and generous with time and resources. The husband needs to have ways to be the source of his wife’s stress-lowering effects - her leaning post in other words. Washing her dishes and doing her laundry is just as good as getting her off.

14

no need to be abrasive. Just saying that I think your “evidence” is complete BS.

15

It’s not MY evidence. It’s just the evidence that’s been published. It has nothing to do with me, other than that I bothered to look things up. If you don’t like it you have a few options. 1. Don’t read.. and increasingly popular choice these days. 2. Maybe I missed some things - go do more research and see if you find something that contradicts what I found. Entirely possible, and useful for comparison. 3. Go do your own studies and hopefully you come up with something different… and that someone will publish it.

16

3a0
C’mon in guys.. Break it up :smiley:

17

All I’m asking is for you to present this research. That is all.

18

Hi,
Update :slight_smile:
So she sent me a message asking me if I found a new girlfriend and that it was too long we haven’t met. She also asked other questions, but it was about something she wants to do but needs help and asked if I knew someone to help her.

It’s been 2 days now and I didn’t answer yet. I’ll contact her tomorrow and neg her about the “girl friend question” pretending it’s too personal to talk about it with friends I don’t meet too often (with a little smiley " :stuck_out_tongue: " at the end, so she wonders even more what’s going on).

I’ll also tell her that I’m too busy (without telling if it’s for work or anything else), and if she is near my place and wants to meet me, she can come to visit me. But she’ll have to tell me before, so I can be at home to meet her. But as she lives at downtown I can’t go to visit her because I hate the trafic jam and searching for a parking place for long minutes. Which is the truth.

What do you think?

19

I would just respond with:

“Hey! Nice to hear from you. Sry, can’t help ya out.”

Short. Sweet. To the point. You don’t have to answer all of her questions.

Hell, you don’t even have to RESPOND!

Benjamin Franklin Effect: Get her to help YOU out more than you help HER out. She’ll tell herself, “I’m doing him favors, so must mean I like him!”
You wouldn’t believe how many girls this helped me out with.

Even today, my crush asked me to do some things for her in the classroom. It’s kind of my job, but I said, “PSYCHE!” and peaced.

I asked her to record me giving a lesson so I can send it out to schools I’m applying to. “Absolutely, sure!”

It works. Trust me. Look it up.

20

Your strategy worked like a charm. I vanished from facebook after work hours for 10 days, which is not normal, just to make her wonder. I’ve replied like you told me. I also haven’t replied to some of her messages, or when I do, I just say the less I can, it sounded like “I don’t care, but I don’t want to be rude”.
In her messages, she’s always complaining about how long we haven’t met, at which I never respond. Just plain indifference, I went to the point.

Like you said, she is now wanting to meet me, the sooner the better. She had even tried to help me with some stuff I’m into. In her last message she proposed if we can meet on work days or the next weekend in order to share some informations she got about a shared interest :smiley:

My question is, do I have to continue staging for a while or just give her what she she wants “meeting her” and decide depending on what happens that day?