The Friendzone...from a woman's POV

Field Reports & Anecdotal Experience Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports
1

There are many threads here on “escaping the Friendzone”. I have commented on a few. As I posted on yet another thread, I decided to make a thread on it. I hope this helps.

First off, you need to understand that you are in the Friendzone for a reason. The most obvious reason is because we only like you as a friend. If we have NO romantic feelings for you, no amount of pheromones, dating other girls or anything else you do will change that. We might think you look extra cute that day or be jealous of the time you’re NOT spending with us because we’re used to being around, but that’s it. I am friends with a bunch of great looking, successful guys. I don’t like ONE of them in the least bit romantically. Never have.

The next reason is because we DO like you, but we’ve been around long enough to see how you treat girls and we don’t like what we see. Apply all the Lust After Me, turn up the Heat, AMMO, etc you want. We might mess up one night and sleep with you, but we’ll hate ourselves (and you) after if you’re not ready to make us your gf or stop fcking (or fcking with) other girls. So if ass is all you’re after, get it somewhere else unless you want to lose us…for good. We can’t help who we like, but we can make conscious decisions to keep you at arm’s length because we know you’ll mess us up. The worst thing you can do is use us for a piece of ass and show us we’re nothing but a notch on your belt. Especially if you call us friend.

Another reason is because we are not sure what you want from us. Sometimes we know it’s a physical thing and we’re good with that. But we don’t want to start something that can get complicated. We’re not all wedding obsessed, sometimes just a good lay with no complications is all we want. Yes, there are men who want a relationship, not just sex. If we want something uncomplicated, faking a relationship and treating you bad just for sex isn’t it. Other times we want a relationship and don’t think you do. We don’t like rejection anymore than you do and if we sleep with someone we like who doesn’t want what we do, we feel like fools. You’re basically saying we’re good enough to sleep with, but nothing more. Why go there when we can just stay friends and not go through the hurt?

Yet another reason is that you’re involved in things that are dealbreakers for us. We like you and are probably attracted to you, but we know that being with you would be hurtful. Maybe you’ve got 2 baby mommas (DRAMA). Maybe you drink too much or do drugs. A known cheater. You might think we don’t know certain things about you, but we’re observant (not to mention you don’t know who we know…it’s a SMALL world). Maybe you just got out of a long term relationship and still talk about your ex incessantly (you may not notice it, but we do!). We can see more clearly than you and we won’t be the rebound girl. I’ve dated guys who smoked weed or worse. It used to be ok, but not anymore. It’s definitely not something I’ll ever do again. Deal breakers are deal breakers. We won’t go there…EVER.

Another thing is are you really as together as you think you are? Are you living at home WAAAAAY past the point you should? Are you pretending to be someone you’re not? Do you go out partying EVERY night? Do you change jobs alot? Are you a slob? These aren’t dealbreakers really, but they are major turnoffs. I really liked this guy and one day my friends and I went over to his house. That was going to be the night I finally messed around with him…WAS. It was DISGUSTING and I was DISGUSTED by him and the way not only he loved, but where he would have his child (no, she wasn’t there). I never knew that is how he lived. I never spoke to him again except when he came into where I worked. I never let him touch me either, because from the way his house was, I couldn’t tell he took a shower or cleaned his clothes. He hid it well.

I hope that this has helped. I don’t want to discourage anyone. But women are complicated and goodlooking, successful providers isn’t all we want. Pheromones have helped people break out of the Friendzone, but as with anything, they can’t make something happen that wouldn’t ordinarily. Be honest with yourself (and the woman) about what it is you want.

Best phero(s) for helping transition a friendship to something more?
2

Question: Is it possible a guy could be in the “friend zone” simply because he’s never bothered to make a move? That didn’t seem to be one of your listed scenarios. I suppose that could possibly overlap your first category of “just not interested,” but not necessarily.

I mean, girls get into the “friend zone” with guys too. I’ve had it happen before where I’d have a really easy comfortable friendship with someone, and then suddenly one day, BANG! “Wow, this girl’s a gem! How come I never noticed that before?”

Doesn’t that ever happen the other way around?

Another thought. Mystery Method warns against behavior that could put you into the “friend zone.” Not spending enough time in attraction phase and going directly to comfort will do that. Instant friend zone.

Now . . . a guy might do that on purpose simply because he isn’t interested in that way at the time. Breaking out of that zone to get back to attraction phase is pretty difficult, but I don’t think it’s as final as your analysis makes it sound.

EDIT: In case I sound like I’m disagreeing with anything, I’m not–just proposing another possibility. Reps for the thought put into your post.

3

Interesting.

For some people, men included, venturing out of the “friend zone” is a rare event.

There be deep waters …

4

This goes to the question I’ve been having about pheromones lately. Is the goal to simply manipulate people against their will (sounds creepy to me), be a social “lubricant”, accentuate a person’s true nature, or all of the above (or option Z- mass delusion/hypnosis? like witchcraft burnings, chupacabra, or pyramid power). The more I think about it, the more I wonder if pheromones are worth getting into… even if you got power over people and win friends and influence people, why lose your own soul?

Maybe the mods will strike me down, or maybe a sager voice will chime in.

5

Galydrum…believe me when I say YES! A few years ago I had no game…but somehow managed to attract a beautiful girl. She claimed to be crazy about me, and was candid about wanting to sleep with me. I was going through a difficult time and stupidly thought I had this girl hooked, so I wanted to take it slow with her. But I didn’t articulate this need, so I came off as being a eunich.

Bottom line…I was a WUSS and didn’t make any physical move the first week I knew her…and she threw on the friend zone breaks shortly after, claiming I wasn’t assertive enough. I now have a rule (and game to boot)…I will not bring a girl into my apartment unless I intend to kiss her that night.

I have not escaped the friend zone with this girl, but have done so in the past with another beautiful girl, only through disinterest. My advice to you is FORGET ABOUT HER…it will either make her crazy for you or empower you to move on.

6

Unless you don’t enjoy the self-benefits and the increased self-confidence, I guess you have a point.

@OP: So pretty much. . . women have to (or had to) choose partners very carefully because they’re very concerned with their self-image, your future, and what your baby grows up to be. . . and a hint of insecurity? :stuck_out_tongue: :slight_smile:

7

Pheromones only enhance what is already there, hence the purpose of this thread. They do not rob one of their own free will.

8

Pheromones don’t have goals.

People have goals.

You get to decide yours.

9

Very true, pheromones in themselves seem to be value neutral, and have no inherent interest or goals. But this also implies they could be used, or at least attempted, for mischief.I think Normajean is basicly saying that some people (nay, MANY people) are viewing pheromones as little more than a mickey you slip in somebody’s drink to get them in bed.

I have to admit, I was approaching pheromones initially with curiosity- do they work, but now I’m wondering about my own motivations- do I want to manipulate people? I think I’ll try going down the rabbit hole a bit more, but I’m definitely calling it quits if I don’t like what I see- in myself. Or maybe I’ll have to rethink human nature. Who could think all this stuff could get so philosophical? Maybe that’s just my nature, to be concerned with the ethics and metaphysics of something.

10

Marsgate, I think you misunderstand me. I’m not in need of any friendzone escape advice at the moment. I was just posing a rhetorical/theoretical question to NormaJean since it seemed like she’d overlooked that scenario. That being that the guy simply didn’t mind slipping into the friendzone at first, then realized he might want something more with the girl (as opposed to screwing up by being a wuss).

I agree with your sentiment though. No wusses need apply to the game of love.

11

Daedelus, think of it this way. Your body naturally produces pheros. Since we live in a squeaky-clean society, you regularly wash them off. So those natural molecules that would normally be sending subconscious signals are just nowhere to be found (unless you just don’t bathe, which certainly won’t help your game).

I like to think of synthetic pheros as “supplements.” They are basically replacing what would be there naturally. Only difference is that you consciously put them there and you get to fine-tune the signals you send out.

I’d say wearing pheros is no more manipulative than wearing classy clothing or driving sports cars.

12

First off, thank you all who repped me, it was very kind. I was just trying to help, I wasn’t expecting that.

It does happen, but we tend to change the way we behave around you, sending signals that out feelings have also changed. MY point of posting was to show you that getting out of Friendzone is largely out of your hands, it mostly depends on us. There has just been so much talk about usig Pheros to get out of Friendzone. It’s not as black and white for us as you guys think it is.

The playing of the games is what tends to get you guys in the positions that you don’t desire down the road. Yes, it’s a sticky situation to get out of, but if you dont put yourself in it in the first place, you don’t have to get out of it, nes pa? No offense, but many guys are into the BBD. You’re never happy with what you have because there is bigger fish to fry (or so you think). This girl is hot, but this other girl is hotter so let me put #1 on the back burner until I get #2. Uh huh…Well, that BS is what gets you put on that list of guys not to touch with a 10 meter cattleprod.

I will open up a page of the woman journal to you right now: regardless of what happens, we’ve already decided VERY EARLY ON if we’re going to give it up to you or not. We act like we’re not or don’t want to or whatever. You may think you’re slick and smooth and all George Clooney…yeah, right…:roll_eyes: Many times we’re doing it for reasons that have nothing to do with you. We don’t need you…we just let you think we do. Therefore, closing shop on you for messing up is nothing.

AGAIN: playing of the BS games will get you outside in the cold, not even in the Friendzone.

No, you came off EXACTLY as you wanted to. She knew you thought you had her hooked (your words) and you were playing games. She knew this and called you out.

That was an excuse to not get further involved with you after she saw you were playing games. If you’re playing them at the beginning, you always will and no d*ck on this planet is worth it.

I’ll keep my foot in my mouth on this one. Don’t want to start a flame war.

This bullsh!t works on girls, not women and crazy girls, not stable ones. Notice that no matter what you did, it still didn’t work on the other one.

I’ve said my piece though. I was just trying to help…

13

Before my marriage i had the issue the other way round.
I had a real long time friendship with a really good looking girl. When i first met her i was in love and wanted to make her mine. i stuck in the friendzone.
But not very long. My feelings for her faded to the point i accepted it was just and only friendship. We could even sleep in one bed without having any ideas of touching or having sex. That holds about 5 years. Then suddenly she suddenly asked me if i have feelings for her, becourse she has some for me. That was the time i meet my todays wife. I said that i really do like her. After she was trying to get really close i distanced and that ended our friendship. Maybe she was to shy or to proud?
Half a year later i moved to my todays wife and we lost contact. Last thing i heard from her is, that she is married now and has a bady the same age as my second son.

14

Agreed. I’ve my very large share of extremely desirable girls :smiley: and well, from day one, we know that we’ll just be friends, perhaps something a little more. but THATS IT.

They’re attached, and I’m attached. We can go out and perhaps get a little carried away… for the night. But that’s it, no romance.

I’m notorious. Hahaha =X And well, everyone knows that. Even through the grapevine - even people I don’t know - other people tell them that “XXXXXXX? he’s interesting” - and it’s somewhat like an open secret. but the gals seem to enjoy it. heh.

This part I’ll have to beg to differ, I think messing up is just something to push the blame on :stuck_out_tongue: No matter if you’re drunk, on drugs, blah blah blah. There’s no such thing as messing up unintentionally :wink:

Sometimes it’s a give-and-take situation, but yes, always remaining friends do work. it’s just a degree of what KIND of friends. Guys don’t really like being the dork who gets called up at 3AM, you know… okay, maybe girls are okay at being called up, but guys are more lazy :stuck_out_tongue: and WE WANT OUR SLEEP. grins

Yes, dealbreakers are often very huge errors which stick out like sore thumbs. If we were to relate it to galydrum’s Mystery Method, it would probably fall into Observing stage. a guy will only have himself to blame if he screws up while a girl is observing him. SUCKS ON HIM.

guys, please clean yourselves/your rooms up - at least enough such that a girl can WANT to stay in it. hell, it’s a ROOM, not a junkyard. i have a decent room filled with electronics, and my girl is alright with that, and we’re both happy.

Whoops. You lied too much, guys. Don’t lie. use half-truths, no lies. Lies are LIES. Half-truths can be (added) to the other half-truth. You want to get laughter after you reveal the second half, not slaps.

Yep. That is if you’re looking to aim at something mid-term/long-term :stuck_out_tongue: if you’re in for a night… then pheromones would probably do a hit-and-kill (since both parties are in for the same thing) - but then again, you DO NOT want to hit-and-kill your FRIEND, like what NormaJeanMarilyn said.

I repeat, you DO NOT want to do that. It screws everything up.

Just my 2 cents :slight_smile:

15

Back when I was in high school, I met a girl who I was instantly attracted to, but because I was shy and had a low self esteem, I didn’t make that attraction known. Instead, I fell into the rut of becoming her good friend. Now, I only call it a “rut” because as good friends, I couldn’t escalate. Hell, for that matter, I didn’t have the slightest clue HOW to escalate. She was a wonderful friend, until I screwed it up.

I asked her on a date, but not AS a date. I framed it as just something fun we could do together AS FRIENDS. She loved playing pool, so we went to this place that was like a teen night club. Fake drinks, video games, pool tables, and a DJ. We had a nice night out that was rounded off by going to this park that was a local hangout for highschoolers. I was going to meet a friend there (I had no car, she did. GAH… embarrassing!). We sat in her car for a bit and I blatantly telegraphed that I had something on my mind. She asked me what was wrong and I told her that it was nothing… well… maybe something… I dunno. She pressed it, so I finally said " ______, I… well, I think I love you."

Awkward silence ensued.

Finally, she said “Jon, I care about you deeply. You’re one of my best friends, but to be honest, I don’t think you love me. I think you love an image of me you’ve built up for yourself.” I should point out that it was obvious to her that I had a crush on her, but she never called me on it before. It’s one of those things that became apparent to me as I looked back with older and wiser eyes.

I told her “No, you don’t understand… the only image I have of you IS you!” She said, “You know I’m dating ________, and I know we’ve been having problems lately, but Jon, I don’t want to ruin our friendship by being anything other than friends.”

Of course she was right, but to a 17 year old male, nervous as all hell, I just couldn’t see it. After that night, I became distant to her. This was all me, I know. I was embarrassed and ashamed of myself, and eventually I drove her away. It’s not that we had some kind of falling out, it’s just I didn’t know how to handle JUST being friends with someone I thought I was head over heels in love with.

The moral of the story is that sometimes, no matter how attracted you may be to a girl, if she’s already a good friend and has made it clear she has no other interests in you, respect that and SAFEGUARD THE FRIENDSHIP! Sometimes, a girl friend can be more valuable than a girlfriend.

-D4

16

The only reason to be friends with a girl is so she can hook you up with all her hot friends.Such a friend is a friend indeed! lol…but seriously i do believe that.

Yes the friends zone we have all been there, sometimes happily (no interest in a girl) or unwillingly ( there is mutual attraction but it never gets off the ground due to hesitation or extenuating circumstances)

Personally ill only accept the later and will avoid at all costs the LJBF’S thing YUK!..

17

That’s true. Pheros are just chemical messages created by evolution, perhaps relatively blunt, but people still have to take ethical responsibility for the messages.

I’m thinking of the golden rule here… would people want to be the target of pheros and feel “used”? Granted, one thing I’ve noticed about pheros- they seem to affect the wearer just as much as the target, and they don’t seem to be particularly discriminating. They’ll attract the people you are interested in, and the people you aren’t. You are still sending the message to everybody around you.

18

cool cool

19

People often establish the groundwork of a relationship early, in a mutual interaction. It may be in the first few seconds of their interaction.

One of the most effective ways to stay out of the friend zone is to make attraction or interest immediately known. That doesn’t take away from the mutual nature of the interaction, but it does give the other person a chance to consider you in that light and make a choice.

If one initially tries to establish oneself as an asexual “nice person” with hopes of developing something sexual later, one is likely to be dissapointed. Even if the other person was initially interested, they will have likely reclassified you in their mind into the friendzone after a short period.

Shortly after I met my wife, she said something along the lines of “Let’s be friends.” I nicely told her that I wasn’t interested in that. It wasn’t completely true. We have a great relationship now and she is my close friend as well as my lover. The statement did make my intentions clear though, and gave her the opportunity to consider our relationship in that light.

20

Well said, Wind! Well said!

You spelt everything out nicely - like a sociology professor. haha!

Seriously, that always happens to be the case. Changing their minds about one later on is the tricky part, happens to the hardest part of things, and the most time consuming. I’m sure all guys actually have blew loads of time and effort trying to do that at some point of time or another..

The easiest thing to do would be to take that time and effort and well, find someone else. It can be a game of time+money+effort vs reward at times