Friend Zone - Permanent or Temporary?

Field Reports & Anecdotal Experience Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports
1

Hi guys,

as I mentioned in my intro thread: I seem to be able to attract the ladies as friends - they are very talkative and at ease with me - but I can never seem to turn it into something more physical.

There is one lady friend in particular (she’s 10 years older than me) that is very special to me. We are very open and honest with each other and she shares info with me on how much she hates her current boyfriend (Fzone territory, I know). I have very strong feelings for her and would love to be with her both physically and emotionally. Unfortunately, she has placed me in the dreaded friend zone. This is somewhat my own fault, as I had dated her younger sister for a few months several years ago. Her sister was my first girlfriend and I now know that dating her was a big mistake.

I really want to get out of the fricken friend zone with her! My questions to you is as follows:

  • Is the friend zone a permanent thing like Hell? Or is just a temporary thing like purgatory?
  • Can one get out of the friend zone by using a combination of game, pheromones, confidence, etc?
  • Has anyone here ever successfully gotten out of the friend zone?
  • Is 10 years to much of an age difference?
  • Since her current boyfriend is an asshole, should I try something like IJ to get her attention?
  • Did I balls things up by dating her younger sister a few years ago?

Any help is greatly appreciated. I would especially like to hear some HONEST input from the females on the boards. Thanks in advance for your help. :slight_smile:

pheromone proof?? What happen to it..??
2

Only you can answer this my friend. It really depends on the situation and how much affection does she got for you and to what level. In most cases, it’s so hard to get out of friend-zone that you are better off being with other women.

Yes.. this is possible.

can’t comment much here tbh :confused:

for the norm.. it is. but does it happen? yes.

that is showing that you are just another.. asshole :stuck_out_tongue:… but you are now her girlfriend. her talking about her boyfriend that much is seriously not a good sign. change the subject and make it about YOU, not him.

probably.. someone else would answer this better.

when it comes to dating and women, please don’t take women’s advice :smiley: seriously it’s just how humans (or women) are. most of the time when a guy asks for dating help they will say “we want that nice guy that shows us care and love and support bla bla bla bs bs bs”… you do what they say in real life and i guarantee you my friend you will stay alone for most of your life.

look in my journal to see the books i’m readin about women and dating them and they will give you a pretty good idea about women psychology and how to deal with it.

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Yeah, seriously hope they’re not written by men. :smiley:

4

Hmm your in deep FZ if you dated her little sister. Its gonna be a tough one to get out of without risking the friendship all together.

Depends on the sin

In some cases

The FZ happens to women to but its more like the Little Sister zone. I married my best friend so yes its possible to get out of it. It is rare though for men and women.

It is if your 16 LOL. But if your in adulthood no 10 years is not to much but our opinion is not the one that matters its hers. To her it may be to much. How old are you ?

Let me ask you this… If you hated liver would you eat it everyday ? She doesn’t hate her boyfriend or she would not be with him. There are different reasons a girl will complain about her BF to a guy. I cant say for certain what hers is without more info but she is probably just blowing off steam just like she does with her GF’s. IJ is not going to do it.

Yes, this put you not only in the friend zone but the off limits zone.

My advice would be next time she complains about her BF call her out on it. “If you think he is a asshole then break up with him or discuss it with him” Dont be understanding, take yourself out of the friend zone and move into the guy zone. Tell her you dont want to talk about her boyfriend and if she keeps talking about him say see ya later and go do something else. Only give your attention when she is talking about normal stuff not when she is unloading on you. Start dropping hints.

Create sexual tension, Use mones like Ammo Tuth A314. You dont need comfort or socials in this case she is to comfortable with you and you want to shake that up a bit and make her see you in a new light.

Tisha

5

I had an awesome reply that my pc froze and ate as a slushie. SO, 20 minutes later:
The biggest problem I see is not the FZ; but you may be headed or even in the little brother zone. :open_mouth: I personally think a little distance while you perfect a new pheromone signature and ease her into that.
If, as Tisha said, she’s just venting; she’s not gonna be looking to change anything anytime soon; call her out on it.
Like Pherojack said steer some of the conversations to you; and as Tisha said call her out on his assholiness.

6

Oh my god I love that word ROFL I think I am gonna call my boss that from now on, he will actually like it. “Yes your assholiness, right away your assholiness” snort :smiley:

Tisha

7

A VERY common title/accusation in Oz. :smiley: Glad to have had the opportunity to provide an accurate descriptive for your boss. Just imagine what the ‘symbol’ for that crown would be . . . :open_mouth::smiley:

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  1. yea its pretty serious. never a 100% theres always a chance but unless your REALLY good and know what your doin…not a situation one likes to be in. but hey, you’ll never know unless you GO FOR IT!

  2. Yes, but as stated above it doesnt happen often. and never happens reguarly

  3. Age is never ever ever ever ever ever a disqualifier

  4. You should just be confident in who you are and run YOUR game. dont try to mimick someone elses. what works for one guy doesnt work for another. go out on dates…lots of them find out who you are and what works FOR YOU

  5. lmao this one made me chuckle :slight_smile: UM it certainly doesnt help the situation. i personaly would never nail a chick my brother has been with, would you? friends though…different story ha ha ha

i understand you like her but you should be working on you and finding out more about yourself through dates with lots of women, that way when one like this pops up that you wanna keep around you know how to do it.

also if you dont want to be the friend, then dont be the friend…but dont be an ass either. its a fine line and unfortunately we must cross the line before we know where its at.

have fun with it and dont be affraid to push your own boundaries

peace and love
-shaboopy

9

Thanks for the help guys! I’m going to take your advice and start running with it. I’m definitely going to stop making her the centre of my attention and stop being a shoulder for her to cry on. I will spend my time on girls I’m not in the FZ with and be less available to her. If something should happen between us, good…but I’m not going to be obsessed with trying to make it happen. It feels great to get that out there, I just hope I remember all of it the next time I see her beautiful smile. :o

BTW, I’m 28 years old…and it was only her half sister. :smiley:

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Let me tell you something about the ‘friend zone’…

the “friend zone” is simply where a women places you when she decides that she likes you ENOUGH to keep you around; but not enough to get down with.

Meaning, you make her feel GOOD ABOUT HERSELF at times but you dont have that ‘bad boy’ edge that her vag seeks so prominently. Simply put, to get girls you have to be an asshole. :open_mouth: They dont want a shy looking kid who needs constant reaffirmation of himself (no matter how goodlooking he his) - thats them! - instead they seek the opposite. Confident, strong and willing - THATS what pheromones give you..THATS what you need

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and no! you didnt “balls things up”[LOL!] with her by dating her younger sister :stuck_out_tongue::stuck_out_tongue:

in fact you probably just made her JEALOUS AS HELL! and lets face it..women are emotional as hell so to get her jealous is to get her thinking about you. play it cool :cool:

12

Another thing that will put somebody in the friend zone?, the woman already having a boyfriend.

Now Tisha is right, you dating her sister, half sister, cousin, close friend…whatever, can put you in not only the friend zone but the off limits zone. If it was a short period a long time ago and never became too serious, that’s workable.

Now you ARE thinking along the right lines by considering her actions instead of her words. Yes she says her boyfriend is a jerk, and most guys normally take that as meaning they should be ridiculously super nice to show her how much better an alternative he’d be over the boyfriend. When the fact is that when a woman calls a guy a jerk..but is still with him what she’s actually saying is “it’s so infuriating that he knows how to push my buttons and I wish I could control myself around him but I just can’t help it.”

So, how do you attract this woman…be attractive…same advice I give almost every guy that’s asked a similar question here.

1.) Like Tisha said (she’s smart as hell ain’t she?), you gotta call her out on it when she vents to you about the BF. This is emotional tampon behavior and it’s counter productive.
Look at it like this, if she’s complaining about him when she’s with you, then even though she’s with you, she’s thinking about him…and, while she’s with you, she’s in a negative state. THEN after she’s vented and feels better for having got it off her chest she goes back to him minus the anger since YOU gave her a chance to cool off. You’re helping him out at your own expense.

2.) Be busy and unavailable, with no malice or conscious thoughts as such…she is still taking you for granted. You soooo do NOT want her to think of you as the guy she can call last minute on a friday or saturday night and be certain you’re home by the phone. Go out and meet people, especially women, and especially attractive women. You don’t have to sleep with them, but having a busy active social life and her seeing attractive women enjoying your company flips the preselection switch.

3.) But don’t be the chick friend guy. Think of the movie “I Love You Man”. That guy was far from gay, but he may as well have been because he had a knack for having lots of female friends and was a great boyfriend but didn’t have any guy friends really. This really does confuse some (most) women. So in working to expand your social circle find some guys you can hang with and occasionally exercise a friendly leadership position with. Join a Gym, find an amatuer sports team, take a martial art (MMA is ridiculously popular nowadays) etc. If you have certain particular likes you can form a group on meetup.com. You want to be able to become a leader of men in some way.

Another MAJOR switch is what Vin Dicarlo calls “having a grand vision”. This could be your lifelong career goal, the great thing you accomplish that you want to be known for, a charity that’s close to home whatever…but have a goal, be excited about it, include her in it. Let her help you with little favors that support your vision. This creates a sense of investment which strengthens attachment.

I’ll leave willingness to emote and protector of loved ones alone since I assume you already possess these qualities.

Now, back to investment…this is something of a date idea that I discovered totally by accident. If you would have asked me 6 months ago if it was a good idea I would have said no, but it turns out that it’s conditional upon the frame…Take her shopping with you for clothes, furniture, colognes etc.
Now as I said if you would have asked me 6 months ago if letting a woman you want, have a say in your wardrobe selection was a good idea I would have said “no, it’s too approval seeking”.

However, I discovered through personal experience that
A.) women love shopping as an activity/experience even when it’s not for them.
B.) when she’s choosing outfits for you, she’s thinking about you…your looks and personality.
C.) it almost has a Dom/sub dynamic as final approval is up to you, so she spends the day trying to pick something for you that you’ll like…based off what she likes.
D.) it’s multi sensory, visual for clothing, visual+tactile for furniture (does this sofa feel comfortable enough?), and olfactory, if you shop for colognes. This creates a memorable experience.
E.) As I stated earlier, investment plays a big part…the woman I did this with was just a friend. Attractive but not somebody I was interested in and I didn’t expect her to become interested. As it turns out however…by helping me choose some clothes and furniture for my apartment…It seems she started thinking something akin to "I’m doing all of this and some other woman is going to enjoy the results.

The main key is she can’t think you’re doing it to impress her, but to impress women in general…OTHER women. This hits a jealous nerve like you would not believe.

By her picking clothes that would look good on you, she’s thinking about you in a “good looking” way, by helping choose furniture she’s thinking of your place in a way that would feel comfortable and “like home” to her. You’re basically letting her take part in making you into the kind of guy she wants but done from a nonapproval seeking angle…in a way that feels like she’s serving you instead of the reverse and in a way that can make her feel like some other woman will reap the rewards of her work.

I was blown away when my female friend told me she was upset that “I’d be fucking some slut from a club on the bed she helped me pick out”. So yeah, depending on how you frame it…shopping can be a HUGE attraction building tactic.

13

Your shopping technique is actually a very interesting idea! Would turning down some of her shopping suggestions be a good idea, just to add to the dominant-submissive dynamic (i.e. should I say something like “no this shirt isn’t for me”)? Or, should I just accept what she picks out because it’s what she thinks I look best in?

Again, great tip…I would definitely not have thought of that one.

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Considering you’ll still be spending your own money, turn down what you don’t like, and accept what you do. If she knows you reasonably well she’s probably going to pick stuff that actually does look good on you and fits your personality, if she happens to choose something you don’t actually see yourself wearing, then politely say something like “nah, it’s nice and all but not really me” and go on. Don’t go out of your way to reject her idea’s but don’t bend over backwards accepting them either.

Now the thing I really want to stress though is that technique will probably only work when you’re already building SOME level of attraction. IE don’t go doing it today and expect results. But if you do it once in a while while also doing the other things that build attraction her sense of investment in you will increase.

15

Yea the FZ suks. In your sit since you dated her lil sis, that she might actually consider you a little brother. So you got FZ plus lil bro= twice as bad. I don’t think the age difference really matters, esp in this day and age with cougars and what not.
Another thing you could try if your both on Facebook is start to interact with different women, dont be to available. Show her that there is interest from other women and that your out and about. Speaking from exp. I tend to get caught up in one particular girl and that is all bad. Get out and meet people and be somewhat not as interested, or busy hanging out with other women. That’s where I am at now. Trying to do the facebook thing so she can actually “see” that I’m interacting with different women. A song comes to mind that sums my sit up: Madonna - Hung Up. Don’t get “hung up” on this chick. Good luck bro.

16

I really like the FaceBook idea as well!

I think my biggest problem is that I’ve placed her on a pedestal for so long, that whenever I’m with her I automatically think to myself “how can I please her.” I need to get out of that mentality and start focusing on what will please me. I was reading SteveO’s journal and this quote really drives that point home for me:

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I don’t have a “Friend Zone.” I have a “you’re unavailable zone” and a “you’re an ass zone.” Unavailable can be “in a relationship” or “dating lots” (as in “not ready for a relationship”). Helping me “too much” doesn’t get you “Friend-Zoned.” Sending me the google map directions AFTER you’ve sent me the address and I’ve mapped it will be a slide into “Ass.” (Don’t be condescending in your help.) As will game playing. (Actually that puts you in both.) Not admitting that guys AND girls both are doing disservice to each other and themselves by pulling dating crap = Ass. (Don’t place ALL “blame” on any one place.

I don’t share private things with guy “friends.” I only share those things with guys I like. Friends do call each other on crap, like telling her the “grow up” advice someone else mentioned.

If she drops him for you, she may be okay with moving through relationships like that in the future. You may also be her “catapult relationship,” aka stepping stone to get out of a bad relationship. If she does dump him, give her time to recover first.

Basically, just BE busy, do more things, meet more people, otherwise improve yourself for the sake of your own life. Be a better “you” just don’t do it as a “game.” Be a gentleman about dating others – don’t flaunt it, but don’t hide it. Otherwise, your personality and mannerisms will appear to change as soon as you “get” her, and she may not like that.

18

There is a recipe for getting out of the friend zone. If you do it right it’ll work. Are you looking to just use mones tho?

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No. Although I haven’t used mones before and I’m still waiting on my first shipment to see the results they can have, I believe that mones will give me a bit of a leg-up on the competition. I know that mones won’t make me a confident ladies man, and that I have to work on myself, just as much as I have to work on my game to earn the respect of the ladies. But I hope that with mones as part of my arsenal, I can gain an advantage that other guys may not have and finally get the attention of the lady/ladies I have so far been failing with.

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There’s a post I made about it.

It is very much possible. It’s just that you have to know the kind of consequences that will come about if it doesn’t work out. Are you both mature enough to keep the friendship, cause when you cross that line, things will change, no matter what anyone says.