Radman, you should conduct a ‘finishing school’ for young guys. I know the younger ones are gonna roll their eyes and snort right about now; but! When anyone, especially a guy I’m interested in says / txts the YOU, my entire demeanor changes. Yes, you’re absolutely right.
When I get the YOU; it does lodge as genuine interest in the processes going on. I generally give this a big smile (reflex) and it automatically “adds rep” to that person.
I was raised by Eastern European parents and baby sat (when I was 3 - 5yrs old) by an older, proper genteel British couple while they worked. They, the Brits, were old enough to be my grandparents. Both cultures stand on ceremony, both place high priority on manners, respect and polite attitude. I learned English and English manners, that have stood me well, from those people.
Yeah, ahh . . . no. Not unless you’ve already been introduced and she’s at least showing a liking for you. A lot of girls will go with the hug, but will bitch about you ‘getting in my bubble, like he knows me, WTF was that about?! ’. Which happens a lot - in the bathroom, away from you. I don’t like it. I hug guys I know / have met and like, but do NOT hug anyone I don’t know / haven’t met.
I have also been literally chased (slo mo) around a venue by a guy I didn’t know (acquaintance of a friend) who said the exact same thing. I don’t care “what you only take”. Invading someone’s - especially someone you don’t know - personal space deliberately like that (can) come off as creeper trying to cop a feel. No bueno.
Respect. Invading someone’s space without being in the “we’ve met and so far like each other” place; can appear disrespectful. After all, you’ve just brushed aside her hand and told her what you will accept. This can and will be seen as being dismissive of her preference / comfort zone.
Girls will do the dodge and the ‘oh no, it’s him’ quickstep behind furniture, their gf’s and random guys to dodge the ‘feelie guy’. Cornering a girl won’t get you any points, either.
Either phrase can produce more then one response. “How are you?” or “How are ya ?”. Most people will respond with the “canned” (for lack of a better word) response… “I’m fine how are you ?”… out of habit even if there are not fine. It doesn’t build rapport its just something we say as another form of greeting.
There are words and phrases peoples use automatically without thought like the above phrase or “Thank You” “see ya later” “What you up to ?” etc etc. They dont build rapport.
If you want to build rapport and truly connect with people then you need to actually be mindful of what you say and what others say to you and use body language and kino to create something beyond those canned responses.
I never ask someone "How are you ? " in any form unless I want to know and am willing to stop and take the time to hear the response. I think its a rude greeting otherwise. When I do say it I will make direct eye contact and sometimes touch there arm so they know I am asking a real question.
When I say “Thank you” I do the same thing.
I have a easy time building rapport with people because they know when I ask I am truly going to listen to them. They learn this because they see it from first contact. You just give the canned phrase and response in any form its like saying “Your not worth my time”. It closes off the connection.
My point is if you are just passing someone and want to acknowledge them “Hello” is the appropriate salutation. Do not ask how are you in any form unless you want to know. It disconnects you from the person when not used properly.
Good Goddess, Her allowing the hug is like saying welcome to my friend zone. Hugging can backfire when your already in the friend zone. Hugging in the friend zone doesn’t create sexual tension it plants you more firmly in it.
The “I only take hugs” response wouldn’t go over big with me in the friend zone or not. I would probably say “well then your shit out of luck aren’t you”.
Kino is important in attraction but its more subtle to creates tension and a certain amount of uncertainty. A subtle touch can be much more alluring and arousing then a all out hug.
For instance right now I have very long hair. (Avatar is a few years old). I tend to braid it in a long braid down my back when I go to work to keep it out of my face. Now there are guys who are in my friends box that hug me or even give me a kiss on the cheek when I see them. I am not attracted to them sexually and just think of them as friends but then there are those who create tension. They never kiss or hug me but use there own body language and mild kino to project a vibe. Like one particular friend who just the other day gently grabbed my braid and wrapped it around his hand when he was standing behind me in the time clock line and whispering something funny to me about a coworker. It created tension, Its like a vibe that says I know we are friends but only because I allow it. I ignore the feeling because I am married but if I were single I wouldn’t consider him in my friend zone. He sort of throws me off balance which keeps him effectively out of the box.
Very hard to explain in words without some imagery..
My advice to those in the friends box is avoid hugging and kissing at all costs. However, do not avoid touching and if you need to get a dvd on kino. Its not a inappropriate touch but it is more intimate.
I know people think that hugging and kissing is intimate but often times its a form of greeting and affection not of attraction.
Nice is not the same as Meek. Just be different. Care and respect her as a person, and you will (sadly) stand out from the crowd. (Besides, wanting love and care and support does not exclude wanting other things. Most people will just mention the seemingly unique traits, those things that stand out because they are rare in the masses.)
In 10 months on that dating site, I have chatted (to varying degrees) with over 200 people (probably 90% men), and had first dates with maybe 90 (those with whom I had more in depth conversations). (It sounds like a lot, but you must remember this is my entire dating lifetime. Most people start in kindergarten with handholding, etc.) So, all that chatting boils down to men complain women are too tenuous (specifically seeming “sex-fearful”); women complain men are too aggressive (seeming only sex-seeking). Funny thing is, this is a self-perpetuating cycle.
Personally, guys that are too “aggressive,” I retreat from. (They give off the impression that they are desperate for sex from anything.) Guys that aren’t “aggressive” at all feel like brothers. There’s a middle ground, and the ones I hit it off with best are the ones who appear to have respect, the ones that show more depth to their personality – you know, maybe they have friends or a hobby besides sex. These are the ones that show interest, but are willing to wait to see if there is more beyond the first impression.
THANKYOU!!! This is an excellent distillation of all the things that we’ve been trying to get across. At least on this thread.
I have seen posts stating that females are scared of sex, blah. blah. blah. AND it’s been pointed out, that sex and it’s implications have different meanings in different age groups. Especially here in America. Younger girls are condemned for screwing too early - in age and in ‘too soon’ with a new person. Girls pay for not being careful. Other girls gossip and tell stories - true and lies - to other girls. And all the gods help you if it gets back to your parents!!!
Guys are congratulated for fucking around. Females are not. The fact that there’s something like 60 derogatory words or so in the Oxford dictionary to describe ‘loose women’ and under 20 for a guy - !
There’s the obvious pregnancy risks,
And then there is the continual battle to get younger guys to carry condoms. I know you got your mones, but did you put a damn rubber in your wallet?
the contempt that some guys have for their ONS’s (oh, her, nah. I did her on the first night, haha - I hear this a lot),
STD’s - much easier for a girl to get one from a boy than the other way around.
And I’m sorry, BUT SOME GUYS ARE STILL LYING ABOUT ‘DOING A CHICK’, HOW & WHAT THEY DID AND SPREADING BULLSHIT AROUND TO ANY WHO WILL LISTEN. Do you think that’s attractive? Girls will spread the word about that guy, too.
So many guys, when ‘chatting up’ girls; are unaware that when you approach someone with an agenda in the back of your mind, we pick up on it. (And so do you- if you’re paying attention to the details). This is the first crack in your plans.
Girls who are looking for more than an ONS don’t like being spoken to with the sole purpose of getting into bed. It truly comes across like you’re desperate to do anyone and it doesn’t matter who that is. If she says no, because you’re looking around the room for the next op, can you really blame her? This is often a test to see what you’ll do. Big points if you stay, a complete write off if you head off to the next one. And if she knows her, and likes her, she’ll inform her of how you treated the first chick. That guys is dismissed as a waste of time and space.
Talking about other things, showing that you have a rounded out life, demonstrates that if all goes well, there’s going to be more to you than a fuck. Most girls don’t go out with the goal of a ONS. Most go looking for potential boyfriends. The ‘hit em hard and if they don’t respond, move on’ is seen, noted and spread around. In the bathroom, away from you. Why else do you think the group bathroom events happen on a regular basis? Girls check and analyse what’s going on, and this is where the group will offer it’s opinion. This is where you will get the red or green light.
Yes, fem’s like sex, they also want to be able to trust the person they’re playing with and that generally takes time. Time to show you’re not just about bragging rights, that you’re not “kissing and telling” everyone you know and the bouncers as well, that she’s not just a personal statistic! That you will play a part in contraception; more points if you’re smart enough to carry more than one condom. I suggest 3, that’s a good first night.
Yes, if you appear to be genuinely interested in the girl in front of you and stop looking around for the ‘hotter / better one’ she may just respond how you want her to.
No-one likes feeling used. Learn to approach a fem without the desperate agenda smell - (or was that a mone OD?) - and you’ll get better results. If you approach with the sole purpose of sex, there is every likelihood you’ll miss out on the ‘playa’ label and go straight to ‘user’. Please remember, teenage girls are still told ‘you don’t just give that away to anyone’ or ‘sex is only good if you love him’ or ‘why would he buy the cow when he gets milk for free’ - I have heard all of these ridiculous platitudes told, in all seriousness, to girls as young as 14 and as old as 25!
Good luck with trying to wear off the user label. Do you really wonder why fems say they want a nice guy? Simply put, you can be an asshole BUT if she sees that you don’t do the above; assholiness can or will be forgiven for a long time.
There is a theory that you can tell what a person’s self esteem state is like by the partners they choose. It’s all about what they think they deserve. This also brings into consideration that all of a person’s life and how they’ve been treated in the past by everyone - especially the previous ‘romantic’ relationships - has a direct bearing on how they respond to you.
Me, personally, I don’t have these issues and the contradictory societal views on sex in this country, are NOT the norm in other western cultures. Just check ages of consent. I do as I feel like with my own pink bits, without concern - because I’m an adult and don’t care what other people think - it’s NOT their business. I go out ONLY for an ONS - I know what you want and I don’t want to see you again. I know the stats for finding relationship material in those venues is next to nil. But for the record, this is what my mother told me when I was 16:
“If I ever find out you’re screwing around; I’ll cut your throat, throw you in the gutter and disown you. Not necessarily in that order”. Absolutely true, and from someone who was screwing around. Triple standards or what?
This is true of both parties. As I have progressed through relationships over the last X amount of years, I see my own growth in the women I have chosen. They get to be of higher quality each and every time.
Tisha’s spot on about the hugs. It used to bother me about women I was dating hugging other dudes that they barely knew, but wouldn’t even hug me. Until I learned that valuable lesson…friends hug… lovers usually don’t. Well not in the scenarios I was experiencing.
I do have a move to create tension even in that friend hug, cuz we all know the typical friend hug. One persons arms over, the others under… if its a girl I want to stay out of the FZ with, or create a bit of sexual tension. When she goes in for that hug, I pull her in by taking her around the waist, with a hand or both hands on her lower back… kinda like a “you’re my woman” kind of move and let her wrap her arms around my neck.
Funny. I will only hug GOOD friends. It’s taken me MONTHS of conscious effort to hug dates (on first meeting), and even then they usually have to initiate it. I’m working on it. Of course, the only guys I go on dates with are ones with whom I’ve had multiple text and voice conversations, so we’re kinda friend-ish first, but I’m more huggy once we’re dating.
I read your intro… good stuff. I feel for you, in that I know far too well the whole “serial monogamy” trap. I did that too, got into relationships that lasted years, instead of dating multiple women in order to get that experience of dating, and also fine tuning what it was I wanted in a partner.
Then I went through a dry spell of many years while raising my two nieces. I sort of hid in my premade family. But I am back out there again, and yeah its like trying to learn all over again. I did the serial monogamy thing again, and now my goal is just to have fun with as many women as I can..and I mean dating of course.. in the hopes of getting it all out of my system and once again fine tuning what it is I really want out of a partner, and then setting my sights on that.
I was teasing. I would think a guy a slut if he carried more, but three is acceptable in general preparedness. That reminds me, I need to go shopping. And get some coffee.
Ah, yes, the nefarious connotations of “consent.” I think most people think if the act is agreed to in the heat of the moment, it is “consent.” However, I never take a gal’s word if she is drunk on alcohol or endorphins.
Hah, I was thinking more along the lines of a nice rumor to start…“The only guys who get first-date sex are losers.”
Best thing is to not even let your self get in the friend zone in the first place. Last time I was in the friend zone was when 13? or 14? I think the friend zone is a waste of time if you are attracted to a girl. Only girls I have in my friends zone are hot ones who I refuse to sleep with. Ugly by my standards like 8s,8.5s. Probably what others would consider 10s. See I refuse to settle for less then a Dime. maybe a 9 or a 9.5 if she has a good sense of humor. But just do not allow your self to get in the friend zone in the first place man.
=) Lol..i hat uniqueness!! it complicates these matters so much. So many different brands and blends making my head spin, i wish there was just one pheromone..that did EVERYTHING!
’. Which happens a lot - in the bathroom, away from you. I don’t like it. I hug guys I know / have met and like, but do NOT hug anyone I don’t know / haven’t met.
Most won’t because they don’t want the competition. 
These are the ones that show interest, but are willing to wait to see if there is more beyond the first impression.