How can you see effects or compare situations?

Field Reports & Anecdotal Experience Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports
1

Hi,

I tried a few products so far (signature) but I have a problem there: How can you see any effects?

I did as I was advised in the stickies, etc.: I used one spray of a product and the next day 2 sprays, etc. Just one product at a time. But I think that it’s hard to see any effects at all (ok, I never tried more than 3 sprays of a product). I don’t know how to compare situations that are different and with different people in them. From a scientific point of view (yes, I’m at a university) comparing different situations with different people in them is just not a good method to find out similarities because there are too many changing factors.

Another thing is that I read the thread about congruence. I tried to stick to that. But I don’t know if any perceived effects of the pheromones or my behavior on others are just random and do not correlate with what pheromones I wear. I just don’t know if it’s wishful thinking when I say “oh, that was an effect of the pheros” when it maybe just was coincidence. People tend to be nice to me, normally. A minority of people maybe doesn’t like me. Some are open, others don’t tell a word about anything personal. If that doesn’t change when I use pheromones and when I try to be congruent I can’t see any possible effects. Even with strangers I just don’t know how to interpret situations because I don’t know what may have caused an effect. Pheros, behavior, mood, …?

Maybe my expectations were too high. People in the forum often write about what pheros they were wearing and that at the end of the day their salary got raised, every girl in town wants to sleep with them or has already slept with them, etc. pp. Ok, ok… I’m really exaggerating. I know. And I don’t expect effects of that extend. But so far I have not seen any effect that I could correlate exclusively with the use of pheromones. Am I seeing the whole thing in a too scientific way? Do I need more patience?

Maybe you can help me out of my confusion.

Another question: In what form do you write your reports? Or what do you think is the best form? One thread for one product? New threads for combos? One long thread with all experiences in it (journal?) or… ?

People, I’m counting on you! Please help me with this.

2

Hey Hirogen,

one thing to keep in mind is the natural tendency of people to report dramatic effects in the forum and not report less dramatic effects. In my experience those big hits come fairly randomly. Sometimes I’ll get several in a day, other times a week goes by with nothing of note, all with the same stuff on.

Are you being too scientific? Maybe. If you are counting smiles…or woodies, as some of the ladies are currently doing :roll_eyes: …then yes you are probably being too scientific. try to look for an overall improvement in your life. Were more people nice to you than usual, were people avoiding you more. What about personal space, did it feel like folks were standing closer, bumping into you, acting like you smelled bad, following you, mimicking you, looking you in the eye.

Pheromones work subconciously, body language is going to be the biggest giveaway. Demeanor is going to be the next best one. How people are “acting” and what they are saying is going to be less important because those are concious things.

In one of the earlist posts on the board Mharris talked about “the grapevine” what people are saying about you when you aren’t around. Get in touch with the grapevine.

Yes be patient. Wear the pheromones and forget about them. You’ll eventually get a response that is so off the wall you’ll think “wtf”, then go “OMG that’s what a pheromone hit is”.

Have fun, be the best version of yourself you can be, and interact, interact, interact. :slight_smile:

EDIT: Don’t be afraid to go over 3 sprays, often that’s just where the fun starts.

3

The purported effects or hits are probably reliable. Before using pheromones, you already have a long history of interaction with people against which you can do a before/after comparison.

What is in question is whether or not the pheromones are actually the cause of the aforementioned effects–as opposed to, for example, the placebo effect or an ‘artificial’ confidence stemming from the use of a supplement such as a pheromone.

The forum frequently reiterates the 80/20 (or was it 90/10) ratio for eliciting pheromone effects. You still have to do 80% of the work, but pheromones will help you with 20%. Would people still have attained the same effect or hit without the pheromone? The odds are in your favor that yes, you would have still elicited the same effect if all it needed was some effort on your part.

But the placebo effect of pheromones should not be snubbed either. There are people out there who would not have made that self-effort, who would not have said hello to that girl at the bar, who would not have had that conversation with their boss, had they not been wearing pheromones at the time.

But, in the end, aren’t pheromones meant to accomplish just that? A change in your attitude? If you maintain that as your underlying goal, then distinguishing between which hit was from pheros, and which hit was from your own actions becomes moot.

4

i dont want to be obnoxius :slight_smile: but if a person would follow this extreme “interact” advise, then the “hit” of course would be randomly coming at some time (except you are ugly but then now phero will help at all), because e.g. if i interacted regularly with 2 women a week and i am not successfull and thenjust boost up
to 8 Women a week then i will get a “hit” sooner or later because the chances get higher just because of the rules of random.

So it gets hard to specifiy if the Phero had any influence to that, or if it is just your aggravated activity compared to before.

The only most objective way would be using it to ppl whose behavioural pattern you already know very well, so you can see if they are now acting out of their historical behaviour pattern ( angry boss when you tell him u fucked up a critical task, … does her react now otherwise when u sprayed Ammo, or A314)

When i get my Pheros i will try to make a objective report because i know several ppl with very hard molded behavioural patterns in special situations.
I will try to provoke them as usually (i am a very direct person :slight_smile: )and see if they react in any kind of another way as before :smiley::smiley:

5

True, but that is exactly the point. Not everyone will react the same way, it’s not about the number of hits but the quality of those hits.

6

I’m confused. Really confused. I mean, I knew that it wouldn’t be so easy and I read alot in the forum but now I’m totally confused. So, basically pheros do their magic (just believe in them?) but a great deal is just to bullshit yourself and use the placebo effect? In conjunction with efforts to become what you want to become?

Ok, let me repeat the essential parts. What should I do?

  • keep trying
  • watch the body language of others
  • count the smilings (?)
  • stick to people I know (??)
  • forget about the pheros while wearing
  • keep observing
  • get in touch with the grapevine :smiley:
  • look for an overall improvement
  • be patient

Hm… somehow I’m not really satisfied with that. Can you imagine? And sorry for my writing style but I’m actually frustrated right now. I guess it’s because those items on the list seem to be somewhat opposed to each other. Or maybe because it isn’t a step-by-step manual on “how to see effects”. I don’t know how to proceed. (am I too brainy?) What would you suggest? Just proceed the way Tisha told us to do (1 spray, next day 2 sprays, etc.) until I get ANY result? Which environments?

I really appreciate your help!

PS: I’m almost willing to use 10 sprays or more of Instant Shine just to see anything… :smiley:

EDIT: Or is it just like Smiling_ray said in his sig? "Don’t worry too much, be happy, positive and smile :slight_smile: "?

7

Are you just wondering what to do and note for reporting?

If so, then I do recommend testing with a group of people that you already interact with. As one of the posters above suggested, take note of how people interact with you with the pheromones, and without. Try and not do anything out of the ordinary to limit the variable factor to the pheromone.

For example, I interned at an office during the summer. I had been working there for about a month before I started using pheromones–A314 specifically. I noticed that the boss of the office thought the sun shined out of his asshole, and would like to make smart ass comments to the interns. This was part of his routine, and I was not spared it. Then, when I started wearing A314, for the most part he stopped doing that. He would still do it if we a bunch of us were taking a break (for instance if we brought our lunches back to the office) but otherwise during the day, he stopped making his smart ass comments.

I never got around to doing a followup control test where I stopped using A314 to see if he started making the smart ass comments again. But my observation of the above was pretty good evidence for me that there was something to A314.

You can do an OD test if you want, though I don’t recommend using IShine for that. I saw a thread where someone indicated that you could not OD on IShine. While an OD test would not show you positive or desirable results, ghosting should be noticeable.

8

I don’t think you are being obnoxious at all.:slight_smile: You are quite right. I will only argue that some guys (not singleing out Hirogen, from reading his other posts I don’t think he’s shy) want pheromones to be a magic bullet and they are not. You have to create opportunities to get feedback and so many guys think they are just walking around watching…I did and maybe that’s why I was so emphatic.

Do keep in mind that effects on people who know you well are likely to be muted. Effects on people who are “very hard molded” may not show thru the mold they have on themselves, although they can also provide very dramatic “proof” if they allow it to show.

One other thing, they do not act like a drug. People don’t get a whiff of pheromones and started acting hornyhappypolitelytalkatively. Pheromones are signals that you are a certain way. They give the other person’s subconscious mind clues about how to respond to you. They will consciously choose to act any way they please.

9

I think 10 sprays is too much, but 5 might be good. :smiley:

It could be that you are just over thinking, or you may be expecting something other than what happens. I’m sorry if my response confused you. Smiling-Ray’s sig is very good advice.

I don’t think that pheromones are all about the placebo effect. I do think they are a good tool to become a better person. When I wear them I do make an effort that I might not make otherwise. As that effort becomes more and more like a habit the response I get from pheromones improves as well.

10

Hey renny (and all the others of course),

I never thought of pheromones as magic bullets. Never. I was really sceptical when I came here. From what I read in the forum I understood that pheromones are more like suggestions. No magic bullets. But I guess it’s like X-Files: I want to believe. After so many reports here I wanted to see one situation where I can definitely say “without the pheros it wouldn’t have been that way”. And I really want to understand the effect every single product has. So far I’m not sure whether the products had an influence in my tests. But that’s what is recommended, isn’t it? “Try out every product, one at a time, to know exactly what it does.” And I’d like to achieve that. So, should I just start again and ramp up the dosage bit by bit until I see something?

Edit: I read the previous post from you. Appeared after I answered the one before. Ok, I’m willing to just use the pheros and do 80% of the work. But how can I get familiar with them (and their effects) then?

11

You’re doing OK just keep doing it!

Edit: you don’t have to try EVERY product, in fact it may be best to stick with just a few until you start to understand what is happening. From your list I would say AMMO, IG and CTTM are the ones that will be most obvious…I think others might put Ishine on the list but it was a hard one for me.

12

Ok, I’ll try that. Thanks for your help, man!

13

Ray’s suggestion is probably the most succinct.

Don’t count smilings. Do learn body language. Context is important in body language, and can change the meaning of postures, movements, etc…learn to recognize genuine interest/disinterest, happiness/sadness, and everything in between. Watch people, try and understand what the situation is, and how each person is acting/reacting to it. What is the story? What are they expressing as each person makes their next move?

Kids in particular are great to watch, because they are much less restrained in their body communication. It may not be as complex, but it is much more raw. A kid that doesn’t want to talk to you will simply turn away, but adults need to be a little bit more tactful. Watch how interactions get more complex as you progress in age/maturity. Watch groups, watch couples, watch individuals, watch two strangers, watch every social scenario you can imagine.

The space between two people is important to notice as well, not just their individual actions. Has one person been backpedaling slowly, over the course of 30 minutes? Given the context, what might that indicate? It’s crazy how in the moment, lots of people are completely unaware of what messages they’re sending out. Watching them, you can see exactly when the situation either begins to become tense or relaxed or..whatever else.

Sticking to people you know is good because you have past experience to compare and contrast with your new experiences. However, pheromones tend to have the greatest effect on people that do not know you as well.

Forget about the pheromones if the constant attention is distracting you from being in the moment. But when you have a moment to breathe, you can go over the last couple hours and reflect on what happened. I usually do that when the night is over or the next morning, but sometimes you forget details..

But for me, body language has been the key.

14

Hirogen,

I had the same problem at first… I couldn’t see any reactions, until I OD on Turn Up The Heat…

Well, I definitely know that “There is something out there” :wink:

Keep on spraying, but don’t rely on just the pheromones, they are just here to help, not to do the job in your stead.

JC

15

All right put the weapons down and dont panic LOL :smiley:

Great advice from the guys. I just want to add a few things.

Your doing fine and I know it can be a little frustrating at first trying to figure out your dosage and take in all this information on what to do.

Just keep working with your dosage.

Be yourself, congruency is a factor but not to the point that your acting out of character. It just means simply if you wear something like Instant Openness but wont talk to people when they approach you it wont do you any good. It dosnt mean you have to actively look for people to talk to.

Best way to see Instant Shine work is to use it around someone who is cronically cranky or unpleasant. We all know at least one person like that. Used around them you will see more of a dramatic effect. Its harder to see around people who are already upbeat and happy. I had a little trouble to with Instant Shine at first until I saw it effect my boss who is a ahole. Then I was like Ohhhhh I get it now. Now its much easier to pick up on.

This is excellant advice and often the hard part, try to set it and forget it. Dont look so hard for reactions. Let them come to you at first then you will know its the pheromones and not your behavoir that is causing it. After you get to that point you can begin to work on reading the more subtle signals.

You will have your “oh shit this works” moment. Hang in there, I can tell you open to it and your just about there.

Tisha

16

Hey Phya, jchirsch and Tisha,

thank you very much for the advice. Actually, I consider myself to be quite empathic. And I normally do interpret body language very well. That is my own opinion but also the opinion of many other people. Among those there is a great number of people who often told me something like “I’ve never met a person like you, a person who always instantly knows what I feel.”. And I’m not exaggerating. People usually open up quickly when they are with me. Thus, Instant Openness’s effects were not really noticable.

But exactly that is a problem for me. I pick up so many signals all the time that it’s hard to filter them and seperate them in “that was me” and “that were the pheromones”. And stay me. Btw., Tisha is right, I tried too many times to be congruent and didn’t act the way I am. But I already corrected this a few days ago. I realized that it’s like when you try very hard to gain someones favor you may fail. If you’re more subtle and if gaining the favor has less importance to you, you may succeed. Basically a truth of life: “Don’t try too hard, it won’t do no good.”. I told myself I had to stop constantly looking for the effects and I should just act the way I am but maybe give it a little shift into the direction of the specific pheromone I wear. Phya, the reflection part is very good, I’ll work that in.

I’ll think about what you wrote more. There is certainly more in it than I conceived right now. But I think I will try what jchirsch said: OD on something. So that I know that “There is something out there”. :slight_smile: Maybe I need some kind of proof first that hits me with such a might that I can proceed further then.

17

Yeah dude, sometimes you gotta see to believe. :slight_smile:

18

Hey Hirogen you used my sig without asking me! That’s my copyright lol, I’ll sue you & take you to court hehehe.

Ok now on to your thread.

I only started to use androtics products for about 3 weeks now. I noticed my interactions with girls are getting better & better. I don’t know for sure whether it’s the pheros or not or the placebo effect.

I’m not meeting girls without my ammo…every meeting is getting better. It may also be the fact that my confidence has grown a lot since I first started using pheros.

I didn’t get any self effects at all using ammo, IS, CTTM, and TUTH. However when I used 2 drops of A314 yesterday I got a headache. That is not a coincidence. It’s a physical pain. I don’t believe it until I experience it myself.

Ok now onto my motto. I’m applying it in my everyday life.
–> If you don’t try, you won’t know <–

Do something out of your comfort zone. Do crazy stuffs.
(One rule - take caution, be safe, and don’t do life threatening things)

19

:stuck_out_tongue: Hey Ray, that’s scientific freedom, my friend. :roll_eyes: I quoted it, I stated the source and made clear that this is the thought of another person. That is part of scientific working, at least that’s what my professors told me. :smiley: Owned. :wink: But seriously, there are too many professors who just quote something to impress the other professors with all that bullshit they wrote. :open_mouth:

Anyway, thanks for your post! I’ll try to work that in. I’ll give you reps not just for your post (thank you) or the opportunity to brag about scientific working :stuck_out_tongue: but also because I’m a hopeless defender of those in need and since schell now has more points than you have… :wink: (schell, that doesn’t mean I don’t like you).

20

So, Hirogen, I see you are familiar with the scientific method. What do you think is the most important part of the scientific method? I think it is hypothesis formation. You can spend millions of dollars (or euros) proving something irrelevant and what have you accomplished?

So let’s not skip over hypothesis formation too fast.

Maybe it was just coincidence. Maybe it was the pheros. Doesn’t matter. For the purposes of hypothesis formation, you always assume it was the pheros. Not because you’ve done years of double blind experiments and hope to get published in a peer review journal. No, no, no… it’s not a conclusion. It is only a working hypothesis! It happens again you think maybe this is a pretty good hypothesis! The opposite happens and you ask, “What was different?” Maybe it works on women but not men? Maybe it works on old people but not young people? Maybe it only works on week ends. Every coincidence becomes a hypothesis. Every hypothesis is continually refined as similar situations either reinforce it or diminish its universalty.

Eventually you have some hypotheses which you feel pretty confident in. These you can challenge in a more or less scientific manner. Set up some situations where it could only be the pheros that would make that happen.

You may find that after discovering what pheros are doing for you that you go back and find descriptions on this forum that concur. But you just didn’t notice it before because you just didn’t picture it that way before you had the experience for yourself.