matador on bodybuilding

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matador is mystery’s wing
VenusianArts.Com - Mystery’s Official Site : Bodybuilding

do muscle and high none produce similar reactions?

Bodybuilding

When I was around 21, I got into bodybuilding. I played football, basketball, martial arts, track, & pole-vaulting in high-school. I grew up in Texas and being big and muscular increased your social value immensely (as most high schools I assume).

When I turned 21, I started to lift for aesthetic purposes, not just for athletic performance. At my peak I managed to get to 245 and 3.8% body fat benching 450lbs for 4-5 reps.

In short, I looked like a real amateur bodybuilder. Anybody who knows me from a couple of years ago can attest to that.

Here is my experience of various dynamics during my journey.

ATTENTION FROM WOMEN

This result was two-fold. I am around 6’2”. When I hit around 205 at 5% body fat, I noticed a night and day difference with women throwing IOIs at me. When I started to increase to 220lbs at 6% I noticed it started to go down. When I hit 245lbs @ 6-7% body fat I noticed it go down a lot. Some girls would still throw IOIs, but most were scared of me. In addition, some simply gave me deliberate IODs.

To put 205@5% into perspective: It would look like Brad Pitt in Fight Club or Troy.

At 220lbs@6%, it would look The Rock in Scorpion King.

At 245lbs@6-7% body fat, it would look freakish and like the guys on the cover of Muscle and Fitness and maybe FLEX (the guys on the cover of FLEX are pros and still are at another level above).

This was back before I knew anything about the community. In my mind:

More Muscle = More Social Value = More Women.

My conclusion: The Brad Pitt Fight Club look works the best for pua goals.

RESPECT FROM MEN

QUICK NOTE: Bodybuilding and fighting are two different art forms. Weight training-not bodybuilding-helps the latter. Do not think that just because you are big you can fuck with anyone. There are some scary cats out there. Avoid fights if possible is my best advice. It is not conducive to our survival goals.

Pros and Cons here: On one hand, you almost get instant respect from men. Men simply do not want to fuck with you. From bouncers, businessmen, athletes, musicians…etc. They all start throwing submission IOIs to let you know you’ve got them in this area. Some want to align with you, some want to distance themselves from you, and some outright resent you and talk shit behind your back.

Another pattern I observed. Rich guys will want to be seen with you (when you’re really big). They will want you to roll in their entourage. They will buy you drinks, throw women on you, and introduce you as their friend.

Cool guys, who you want to be like, will give you a level of respect instantly into their social circle, provided you are not a socially unintelligent person. In other words, they will give you access to their world, provided you don’t do anything stupid.

People in general will give you compliance easier. It’s the small things you notice in everyday situations from waiters, people standing in line…etc.

One funny story, I ran a red light at about 60mph, simply because I thought I could make in the yellow on pacific coast highway. I was in a national park and I noticed the park ranger slow down as I sped up. I was going to try to make the light and he was going wait for the next one. I ran it and he turned his sirens on and pulled me over. Why would I do such a thing you may ask? Well, I didn’t think these guys handled traffic violations. I thought they monitored park activity such as fires, vandalism…etc., things like that. In short, it was stupid, but that’s what my rationalization was at the time. As he is pulling me over, he asks me if I have been drinking which I said no and then asked me to step out of the car. After I did, he took one look at me and asked me, “Why shouldn’t I give you a ticket.” I told him, “that was a completely stupid thing I did and it won’t happen again.” He let me go! Some may say that was completely random. However, I disagree. Nothing is completely random, nothing is an accident. Even if people themselves are not aware of what they are doing, they’re emotions are reacting nevertheless. In this instance, his emotions & logic decided to give me a pass, if I simply gave him this one little compliance test. He didn’t want a cute logical answer, but wanted an emotional one. Notice how I never answered the question that he asked? Why would he do this in the first place? I believe, by the intimidation factor of this huge guy being presented to him on a one-on-one basis on the side of the road.

Women will want to show you off. Hold your arm like they are so proud to be there. Even though it all breaks down to value, there is nothing like seeing the love and adulation in a young girl’s face as she is looking at you and you know it is real.

CONFIDENCE

At gladiator dimensions, you’re CONFIDENCE is SUPER-HUMAN. I am not saying it is entirely real…just describing how you FEEL. You feel entitled to any girl in the venue. You FEEL entitled to TAKE what you WANT. You feel like you can slam dunk a basketball (which I could barely do)…you FEEL like you can accomplish anything after enduring the discipline and pain it takes to get there. YOU FEEL FUCKING AWESOME. Almost anything you wear looks good, you feel like a Ferrari on a road filled with Cadillacs. You feel peaceful. You feel clean. You feel energetic. You feel younger. You feel like you’re not aging. You feel DANGEROUS. Your feel POWERFUL…physically & mentally. Remember, don’t go into the gym get up to 225lb on bench with a gut and say you don’t feel these things. This is how I felt when my body was at a level where someone would pay me to photograph it.

HOW TO GET GOOD

A rough but effective game plan to get your body to where you want it to be is a follows:

First, outsource the knowledge. A lot of you guys are busy on your wealth and relationship nodes of your life. You don’t need to immerse yourself in the world of bodybuilding. Here is the solution and eventually you will acquire the knowledge yourself.

Find a trainer that LOOKS like a bodybuilder from a reputable GYM. You may not want to look like him, but he will have the knowledge and drive to take you to where you want to go because he has done it himself. They may be exceptions to the rule; however, I don’t want to waste any time finding out. Also, you have to believe in your trainer as a teacher/role model and he needs to earn that respect as he is yelling at you to grunt out another rep on the leg press as you have a white-hot burn going through your legs.

Second, you must hit your training, diet, supplementation, and rest in unison. If anyone of those areas is left undone, you will not get the “Perfect Look”. There are some major mistakes I see a lot of guys do. The will either:

  1. Over train
  2. Not know how to train, but think they do after reading a few pages of muscle and fitness.
  3. Train and then go eat a pizza afterwards and wonder why their ab wall doesn’t show after the million crunches leg raises that they’ve done.
  4. Not rest enough…I knew one guy do did fifteen sets of 8 on bench press as his first chest exercise! WTF!
  5. I saw this same guy repping with the same weight for about 2 years!

The list could go on an on. In short, seek out those you have the knowledge and motivation that you need TODAY and who have proven successful at the task you are about to perform.

Here is a rough summary:

  1. Seek out a QUALIFIED TRAINER based on my text above (this is an important step).
  2. Follow his instructions exactly…believe in him even if you don’t see results at first. (That’s why step #1 is important, he needs to inspire, motivate, and earn your respect).
  3. Believe that this body (the archetype I found the best for our PUA goals) is something worthy and worth fighting for. You have to want it. I illustrated my experience, so you’d know it is a huge DHV prop to your avatar.

CONCLUSION

For RELATIONSHIP purposes…I think it is an excellent sport that does provide the ROI you are looking for.

For HEALTH purposes…I think it is an excellent sport that does provide the ROI you are looking for.

For WEALTH purposes…I think it is an excellent sport that does provide the ROI you are looking for.

In this regard, remember I mentioned that High-Value guys will want to align with you. I can’t tell you how many different wealth-building alignments are spawned from guys wanting to be your friend and throwing value your way.

All-in-all the BODYBUILDING activity permeates through multiple areas of your life that are consistent with PUA goals. I high recommend it for the reasons in this post.

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bodybuilding first and foremost should be about YOU and not about how your muscular physic will effect those around you, I do it because it gives me energy, increases bone density and a host of other things, but I dont do it for anyone other than ME, I have been bodybuilding since 16, and originally started because I wanted to compete with the other guys in the Hood, however as one gets older, you realise doing things to gain approval from others is the wrong approach and only leads you to disapointment.

if you think body building will solve or help with a host of social challenges you mentioned, your very mistaken, ive met some real goof bodybuilders that cant hold a conversation longer than 5 minutes and cant string two words together, it seems they spend too long in the gym and inject too many steroids up thier A*ss, my advice to them would be drop bodybuilding and enrol in a basic social communication workshop.

p.s bodybuilders tend to be narcisists, its the nature of the “past time” (body building is not a sport), the problem with narcists is that they tend to think they are the centre of the universe and often neglect alot of other things in the world that lead to a socially enriched life.

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hmmm…i’ve got issues with a couple of things in this post.

1 - as bronzie said - you should train for you, not for anyone else, and to get a physique like the guy suggests, it’s going to take a lot of time in the gym, an eagle eye on your diet, and really you’re not going to have that much time to go out drinking and picking up chicks. besides - liquor won’t be on your diet anyways.

he’s also right about women - most women don’t really value size. they don’t find a beast attractive. they tend to find the slimmer leaner guys with a chest and arms attractive. Because I train myself, I have a different aesthetic.

I don’t like his advice of “if you are too focused on other things - go get a trainer” A trainer is good for teaching you proper form, but most trainers I wouldn’t allow to actually design a routine for me.

The other advice i would add is this - squat dammit. if there’s one thing i can’t stand - it’s guys who work there chest, and arms, and don’t bother with their backs and legs. those of us who know are not fooled by your beach muscles.

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in case it wasn’t clear, I thought the post gave an interesting perspective on how a socially calibrated guy found building muscle changed the way people reacted to him. i’m not suggesting doing this, but it gives a window into a different world (for me at least).

there seem to be some similarities between building muscle and what happens when you wear lots of none. see the bolded parts in particular.

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I was wondering what would be a good relative body weight for 5’ 11" guy. I agree wholeheartedly with the post. Pheroquirk, thanks for posting!

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i see what you are saying. I don’t know if it’s like none exactly, except possibly for the intimidation factor.

When I was in college my friends and went to a happy hour at a bar near a different school. there was bunch of guys there from St. Johns - they were from a fraternity over there. The biggest guy in the bunch, all i can remember is they all called him “meathead”, apparently took a liking to me. Turned out he was defensive lineman for St. John’s football team, and he was gigantic. the entire bar was abuzz with the idea that he and I would hook up (between the frat and my sorority we took up the whole bar.) But it never worked out - at the time I just thought he was this hulking mass of meat, and frankly i was a little scared for my safety. Not because of anything he said or did, just his size. I also thought he was most likely dumb as box of rocks. At the time the guys i preferred were lanky, funny hair-having emo boys.

So in my opinion, real size can be intimidating to your average woman, much like none, but there are also stereotypes at play, and i think a lot of musclebound guys are intellectually underrated. The ones i know now, from being int he life, are geniuses. the amount of attention paid to details, understanding mecahnics and how to build a routine, knowing how to balance your diet, all the math and science involved - it’s really not an endeavor for the stupid or the mentally weak.

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my ex was 5"11 - he looked good and felt good right around 200-205. He was prolly at more like 7-8% bf tho. when he came out of bootcamp he was 185 and felt small and weak. when he went up to 220 he felt fat. and he was fat. lol but really it depends on your genetics and propensity towards bodyfat, and musclebuilding in the first place.

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Hey Nunya, what kind of frame did your ex have? I have a small-medium frame and I am not sure I can pull off 200 lbs. In Pheroquirk’s post the guy says he is 6’ 2" and he felt best at 205 lbs. I am at around 165 lbs at 9% body fat right now and am working to add another 10 lbs. Lets see how that looks then I will think about adding more.

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he had really small joints to be honest, but I would put him at a medium to large build.

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I saw this guy, about 5’11" walk into the store the other day with this hulking barrel chest and massive arms. He looked like a monster and after he left all the girls were laughing at his mass.

When I saw him I had to do a double take and thought to myself this can’t be attractive to women. I guess by the laughter I was right.

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the bolded stuff fit with my explorations in none ODs a few years ago. and it sort of makes sense that it would. apart from anything else, i guess more muscle = higher effective androgen levels and stronger phero metabolites. so it’s interesting to wonder how much of the U-shaped response to building muscle was visual vs pheromonal.

ymmv though.

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at least he got some attention for better or for worse, on the other hand would a fat pot belly guy with a tubby face and double chin, fat fingers do better in the attention seeking department? my guess is no, the fat boy wouldnt even be on a girls radar!

better to have bad attention than no attention!

p.s unless your taking copious amounts of steroids, most body builders do not become massively freaky anyway

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Glowing with health, next to being evidently and obscenely rich or powerful, and rich and powerful… three different offsetting components… assume you must choose from the health category… :roll_eyes: … something about a coordinated, well toned body, does not require excess mass… when I’m grooving on beautiful women, a fine diversion if ever… the gestalt, almost the life pattern of the person, someting that is both the physical, the psychic, and some other thing, like the way a boat cuts a wake, or a great writer says it all in a compact line… it isn’t more words, or bigger waves, sometimes Capote, when he was riffing on Proust, or you get that transient glimmering of some higher dimensional thing… very deep coordinations of the diaphragm, the emotional self, the intuition, bodily strength… my grandmother and her sister grew up among Cherokee (they called themselves Ayiwaniwah, which somehow translated into Tsalagi, then into…) before they were modernized… this indescribable thing… you’d find it in Jimi Hendrix, Johnny Depp, Robert Rauchenberg, probably in Michael Jordan, John Coltrane, Thelonius Monk… right before she died and could barely speak, she wanted to talk about the old cherokees, their incredible physicality, the intensity of their intuitions, the near psychic way they could relate to animals and plants… and we’ve replaced this with… spas ! Braaaaavo ! Braaaavisssimo! Go hormone injections ! Go tanning beds! :open_mouth:

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hard to add very much to this… but I wonder how much of a tradeoff exists between a body that the bodybuilding community would appreciate and a well-integrated body that takes full advantage of the anti-gravity reflexes. ease and poise vs power?

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An endless, ongoing process ?

What do you see patrolling the streets ?

A. too skinny from dieting/purging…

B. fat and lumpy…

C. pumped up, bicep-ish, and man… so many hair trigger tempers… you just don’t want to cross people, no telling what’s about to go off like a small charge… ummm… roids make the man ?

D. sort of bland, shapeless, blah body with bland shapeless blah mind…

E. Implanted… they don’t bounce in rhythm with the rest of the body…

F. Bigger budget makeovers… liposuctions, hormone concoctions, frightening protein and camel saliva blender drinks, personal trainer, hyperbaric oxygen immersions… YOW!

Then there was a photo in the NY times of an amazonian guy with his mom, sitting there, face foreward, no poseur thing, wearing regular cotton clothing… and it was all there, something in the face, an awareness, a bodily presence… cannot be replicated by artificial methods… and I thought, by gum we do look hideous, don’t we ?

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Hmm, so the Brad Pitt/Fight Club look works best. Did matador happen to mention how the Paul Giamatti look does for PUA purposes?

(I’m thinking you just have to be very, very rich.)

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i think a lot of people underestimate the mindset of those Brothers and Sisters of Iron. there is a certain zen to bodybuilding/powerlifting/weight-training.

It’s a lifestyle it’s a mindset and it’s a practice - and I think with many of my fellow lifters it shines through. actually I think the inimitable Henry Rollins can explain better than i can:

IRON, from Details Magazine

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Henry Rollins just went up a notch in my book. That puts him at notch one.

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word. Henry Rollins is my future husband and has been for at least 10 years now.

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Enjoyed the article.

Rollins is great, if a little extreme in some areas. Nice guy, though. And not that big, btw.