I was just looking at Cloud9’s poll on favorite or best working pheromones and noticed something I found interesting. If you add up all the votes for the various androstenol products they don’t get as many votes as Ishine another social product. The poll let’s you vote for multiple products. Considering that the androstenols are often the first things recommended to new people and that they are more or less unisex I would think that they would score higher. So spray on your fav combo of chatter spewing -nols and let’s hear some theories. 
Well I just equate it with male ego. Excuse me while I temporarily shift to misogynistic douchebag. Men would rather fuck then talk. Chatty nol don’t stand a chance against none. If men were condemned to choose and use only one artificial pheromone for the rest of their lives, I think androstenone would be the top choice, just out of that principal alone.
I agree with you there pheraoh, and that is born out by the poll ammo and tuth combined score highest. I’m thinking about the difference between the socials. Most men come here looking for something to get the ball rolling (at least that is my impression). The -nols do just that.
Hmmm, let me think about that one…The rest of my life with a chatty asexual woman or a mute nymphomniac … Give me the mute nympho please, and I’ll talk to myself
i think only the ones you’re referring to are the forum users. many guys probably order without posting on the forums and those are the ones who post in the new users with “me want pheromones so me can have sexy time with ladies.” just so they can get the 15$ gc.
Also I’ve noticed that the -nols are inconsistent, at least for me. They’re also context dependent. If it’s not the right setting (for example, a boring lecture) no amount of spaceland dumped over my head is going to make it any more livelier. Nor do the -nols make you any more approachable. They don’t make you “seem” friendlier. All they do is make people more likely to talk IF they’re in the mood to talk AND it’s the right setting, and they may not talk to YOU, anyway.
Something like instant shine, from what I hear, seems to have an effect on how people percieve you. Nols do not, at least from my experience. Now, if said person is in the mood to talk, AND it’s the right setting, then it does make conversation flow much more easily. But their perception of you has nothing to do with the nols.
What they remember is your mannerisms and how you handled yourself in the conversation, not how they “felt” around you, cause -nols don’t change that. But with instant shine, they’ll remember they felt good around you, or with -none they’ll think there was something about you that turned them on. See what I mean?
Don’t get me wrong, the -nols are very useful. If you hate awkward pauses in conversations with new people as much as I do, you’ll love the nols. Conversation just seems much smoother and you’re both more relaxed. But they don’t make you any more approachable/friendly. No product will. You have to do that on your own.
Also, tolerance to the -nols is built up very fast, much more quickly than the sexual/masculine pheromones. It’s a profound effect once you meet someone and ENGAGE them in conversation for the first time, but if you meet them again another day wearing the same dosage of -nols, you’ll notice a much less pronounced effect. Most other pheros take longer before you see diminishing returns.
EDIT:
For those of you who are into neuroscience, GABA increasing drugs such as Valium or alchohol develop tolerance the most quickly. Someone put on a prescription of Valium for anxiety will soon find out their panacea no longer works after a few weeks, and then they either have to change medicine or get a higher dosage. This is how I believe the -nols work. The GABA increase makes you feel relaxed, yet talkative at the same time. But tolerance is developed quickly.
A different type of phero: est for guys or A-1 for girls, increases serotonin (or it seems that way, judging from the reactions). This is what gives the mellow, satisfied feeling (it also can make you LESS social without other social pheros to balance it out). Tolerance develops to these pheros much slower, as does serotonergic drugs.
Hmm, while I’ve had great horny-toad results with androstenone products such as NPA and The Edge, my fav for everyday life are the nols. I agree with TRD, nols do not make people friendly or nor entice from into talking if they don’t want to. However, it’s my job to be friendly and talk to them. I wanta be in control. What the nols do is make it so much easier for them to open up and respond. And if they wanta talk, look out.
Also, I think nols do more than merely foster verbage. The presence of nols send out the “I’m a healthy piece of human flesh” vibe, and thus very important at a subconscious level.
As far as getting laid, nols are not as direct as -none but in my experience just as effective. Women really appreciate ease of communication and a good talk almost automatically brings you to greater intimacy. Of course it also tends to lead to more serious involvement rather than a mere roll in the hay. Not exactly what every guy wants but I really enjoy getting to know the girls I screw.
Shine doesn’t do much for me but it’s certainly a fav here. As far as building tolerance to pheromones, I find all pheromones about equal in this regard. It’s important to rotate your signature to keep them on their toes.
Hmm. It’s weird, though. I will have to say that GUYS seem to develop a tolerance to -nols much faster than girls do. Anyone else notice this?
This is probably true, and probably of MUCH greater value the older you get. Putting out that vibe doesn’t really make me stand out with people of my own age group, as everyone is youthful, but I would imagine for someone older, it would catch people off guard and make you stand out. -none and shine do a good job of this, as well.
I actually think that nol is probably the most consistent pheromone out there, and that none is the most inconsistent…I would say that none is notorious for its inconsistency.
When it comes to building sexual attraction, none and nol certainly play their parts. I don’t personally think that the effect of none creates a direct sexual arousal in a woman…rather it projects a highly aggressive, masculine vibe that in the right context will very effectively get a woman aroused. Within most social contexts, none isn’t too effective by itself in creating sexual arousal. Its a bit folly to think that women will sense the presence of none, and immediately be aroused and turned on to the man. There’s so much more to a woman feeling attracted to you than that. There has to be some context outside of the androstenone itself for her to perceive such a brash ‘vibe’ in a sexual way…without that context, its merely intimidating, repulsive, lone-wolfish etc etc etc. Once that context is established and there’s a concrete reason why a woman should be attracted to you, however, androstenone works like a charm.
Androstenol, as a communication pheromone, is crucial to the process of building attraction/arousal, because 95% of the process is handled through communication. PUA manuals like those published by David D, Mystery, Neil Strauss don’t teach us love making techniques to be successful with women…they teach us communication techniques, because this is where success with women is ultimately derived. What good are love making techniques if you can’t establish the early stages of attraction that lead you to the bedroom? Where androstenols work is in there ability to open up lines of communication, to build rapport, to establish a connection, to build social attraction…ultimately leading to physical attraction and arousal.
So there’s certainly a place for androstenone and androstenol in the entire process of creating sexual arousal. In fact a mix of androstenone and androstenol is a very basic, but effective mix that a lot of pheromone users swear by. Ammunition does a good job of balancing androstenol and androstenone against one another (along with other pheromones). Interestingly enough, the formulation of Ammunition uses quite a bit more androstenol than androstenone…particularly with the newer batches in which androtics lowered the androstenone content.
I would think that Instant Shine is more popular in the poll because Instant Shine is a more exclusive product. Androstenol is readily available elsewhere. But TAA is unique to Androtics. Personally, I like Instant Honesty just a tiny smidge more than Instant Shine. Luckily, I don’t have to choose!
Sigma, that was a gerat posting. On one hand I couldn’t agree more with what you had to say, but on the other hand, I find that with my combination of Ammo and TUTH and IFM worn to nightclubs, I am getting definite sexual hits, I.E., women standing and/or sitting very close to me, lightly bumping into me, asking me to dance and getting irritated if another woman gets to close to me. I get this far more frequently when wearing pheros than when I am not.
I will maybe differ a bit and say that I think the initial sexual attraction and arousal can be accelerated with the use of Androstenone, and Androstenol can open the door to communication. But, ultimately if the man cannot carry off the initial attitude and personality expectations perceived by the woman due to the use of pheromones, then the arousal proccess ends before it ever really got off the ground.
Great post Sigma.
Mark I would think that in a club that blatant hits are more common due to the nature of the place combined with alcohol. But, remove yourself from that environment or add a person that you are genuinely interested in and androstenols are more important in my opinion. I am glad to see that you did purchase androstenol in the form of Come Talk to Me mix 2. Is there a difference in the attention you receive when you pair it with Ammo or Turn up the heat?
Androstenol is my favorite pheromone, I couldn’t give a hoot how it affects others I’m wearing it for me! 
Well, I really, really wish I could answer that question Inkling. But, I am anxiously awaiting for my last order to arrive, which was for the CTTM 2 and a bunch of other products.
I will agree that Androstenol is more important for moving things along after initially meeting someone, but at least for me I feel the Androstenone does generate the initial interest. And, while I know it’s not stated anywhere I would almost bet that one of the three pheros in Ammo is Androstenol. So, I think that while wearing my nightclub phero mix of Ammo, Turn Up The Heat and Instant Female Magic, I do have at least a small amount of Androstenol on.
I also agree with you on blatant hits being more common in nightclub scenarios due to the nature of the setting. But, I seriously never had this much attention before pheros.
Example:
Last Saturday night I was at my usual nightclub (country-western music) and had 3 girls who I could only assume to be dancers at a strip club somewhere literally pushing themselves into me. One of them for no reason and without prompting or provacation, turned to tell me about how she had been at a hotel on Bourban Street in New Orleans a couple of weeks earlier, got drunk and was swimming in the pool, when two police officers came over and told her that she couldn’t swim naked. And while telling her story she was pressing her breasts into my chest. One of the other two girls asked me if I would watch her stuff while she went to the little girls room, then unbuttoned my chest pockets and put her keys and cell phone in them.
This is just one extremely blatent example, but I could cite numerous others.
Look at my pic, I’m 45 years old, I am not a stud and don’t warrant hot strippers acting like that around me.
I must disagree with you, there, about the consistencies of the pheros. Maybe it has to do with each person and their body chemistry, but -none seems to be much more consistent with me.
By “consistency” are you referring to the frequency that you notice it working, or are you referring to consistent spectrum of responses (i.e. positive reactions vs. negative reactions)? If you’re referring to the latter, I agree with you. -None hits are all over the board, and can be really good or really bad or anywhere in between. The worst that could happen with the nols is a mild headache or them not responding at all.
If you mean “consistency” as in frequency of responses in general, I’d have to give the edge to -none here. Maybe it’s cause I’m a “nice guy” and I have a tendency to become a girl’s “friend” instead of “lover,” but the responses I get to -none are much more noticable and frequent.
Too often people just flat out don’t respond to my -nols. I have yet to have an experience where a girl just talks my ear off while wearing androstenol. I’ve had plenty of experiences where androstenol HAS worked, and I never wear a phero mix without it, but people’s reactions to my spaceland… (yes, spaceland, and it’s supposed to have profound results) are often too subtle to notice.
Also, I would say it depends on the girl of course, but some girls feel arousal from androstenone regardless of who wears it (ladies please correct me if I am wrong since I am neither able nor willing to speak for all of you). Read some of Tisha’s posts about -none. Seems to me that she likes it on anyone.
The classic analogy with -none is that if it were the sole way to get females to mate, you could spray it on a telephone pole and watch ladies try to hump it. As funny as that would be, we all know that’s impossible. Human sexuality is far more complicated than that. However, suppose we were to spray the telephone pole with lots of -none and have a handsome young lad stand next to said pole. I’m sure he would get some proximity hits from the -none on the pole.
Sigma’s simply relaying thoughts about his personal experiences–experiences which are bound to be different from every other man on this planet. It’s pretty hard to disagree with what he felt and observed. After all, we all have different body chemistries, persona, social skills and social status. No one man’s results are the same. With all that said, while I have experienced the most insane hits and adventures while moned up on NPA or TE, they are not consistent or regular. Often things are totally normal, as if I’m nekid of mones. What are consistent from day to day are the reactions from wearing nols. People love to talk and be friendly. I can pretty much bank on alpha nol to get things cranked if I put forth effort. Androstenone isn’t nearly as predictable or consistent for me, although I never leave home without it! Unless there is already an attraction I’m treated normally–not ignored and not negatively or positively.
I used to love to give the pole analogy. Also the stiff in the funeral was one of my favs.
When we think of consistency, we think of how consistently a pheromone works as intended. None is a highly volatile pheromone thats highly context sensitive. Like you say, things usually go really well, or really badly. I’m not discounting the usefulness of androstenone, in fact I still use it regularly. But I do think there are misconceptions on how we view androstenone as ‘THE sexual pheromone’. That just isn’t the case, especially with all the putatives we’ve been experimenting with.
Is Spaceland the only androstenol product you’ve used? While its very hard to OD on spaceland, spaceland could very easily become alpha androstenol overkill for a lot of people. Mharris has made several comments on how high doses of alpha androstenol (and spaceland is an extremely high dose) can overload neuroceptors can cause people to sort of blank out…kind of like a ‘flashbang’ effect. Essentially, too much alpha androstenol can cause people to do the exact opposite of openomg up and become more talkative; it can overwhelm them, cause them to ‘blank out’.
There’s no evidence linking androstenone to direct sexual arousal in women…no pheromone has really been established to play that role. The context always has to be there.
That being said, copulins play the specific role of creating arousal in men..they signal ovulation, a peak point of a woman’s fertility, to a male to initiate intercourse. Still even copulins, as a purely sexual molecule, are highly context driven, and aren’t used by women as the only pheromones for eliciting hits. I’ve played with EO quite a bit, but I’ve never felt aroused from the stuff unless there was some concrete reason for me to feel that way.
Funny thing is, back at LS, you and I were both strong proponents of using high doses of NPA, which is quite a bit more concentrated than AMMO and Turn Up The Heat. I still see the value of that approach, and am planning on revising NPA once my bottle of TUTH is empty.
I must agree that my most insane hits have come from high doses of androstenone…but such effects are few and far between. I still use the stuff in almost all my mixes, but on much more conservative levels unless the situation warrants it. Nowadays I only use high doses when I have alone time with the lady. Other than that, high doses of none have been causing more trouble than good lol.
I do think there is a place for androstenol as an attraction building pheromone though. Too often do people view it as purely ‘non-sexual’.
Wow, reps all around. Trde59, Gegogi, Sigma, this is one of the best discussions I’ve seen on how important -nols can be. Thanks for all the good stuff.
My original thoughts were along the lines of Kitten’s… the results are just part of the poll’s structure.
With due props to Gegogi’s assertion that -nols ARE perception enhancers on their own, I think this is a great point. As men we tend to seek action inducers but what may work best are perception enhancers.
Anyway great discussion!
Mark, do you remember how hot Nova was in the original planet of the apes…that was when I realized girls might not have cooties after all.
I remember the original Planet of the Apes, but god that was so long ago that I don’t really remember the characters. Hope that’s not senility setting in 
But, I just googled her and yea I gotta agree, she’s a cootie cure.
BTW, thanks for the reps!