In another thread, Tim asks whether wearing Instant Honesty (possibly paired with Androstadienone) will be the key to success in finding out whether his friend will spit it out and tell Tim if he’s attracted to him or not. So I gave my estimate, and I’m hoping to get yours …
I suggested two sprays of Instant Honesty (1x) on each wrist and 25-50 mcg of Androstadienone on his chest.
Will one evening of Instant Honesty produce a confession between friends, one way or the other?
is alcohol involved? how strong is tim’s friend’s internal watchdog? is his sexuality in general an area that might trigger it ? how about wrt tim himself (eg social circle implications, work ties)?
25% sounds a good number, but maybe can step up the dose of IH to 3-4 sprays?
i dunno - i can pretty much lie with a straight face, wearing instant honesty. but I can also say stuff i wouldn’t normally say but needs to be said quite comfortable wearing it. So it could really go either way.
Its hard to say. If he is comfortable in his sexuality I believe he will open up and talk more with IH but if he is just not ready for that then he could pull away. This is why I suggested just using IH or IO without anything else at first. He has to approuch this softly because if he wears Androstadienone and he is not ready for those feelings it could have the opposite effect.
Curious about the androstadienone being suggested. Are we thinking of it as a kind of litmus test for gayness (based on the notion that gay men respond with comfort to androstadienone, as women do? instead of clamming up and feeling depressed, as straight men often do …) And if so, do we have any idea how a bisexual man would respond to androstadienone?
Can anyone link me to evidence that gay men respond like straight women to A1? and can anyone on the forum testify to this response firsthand?
Regarding sexual confessions induced by IH … I’d say not likely unless the guy is pretty much dying to spill anyway. And yes, alcohol would improve the odds of this happening.
i agree with you Carrie;
i was curious as to why A1 would be used at all, as i am in the percentage of females it doesnt affect positively…so i can only wonder what ratio of men would be positively affected.
my strategy would be to create a happier atmosphere,as people are more likely in general to spill when they feel safe and loved.
especially if they werent the first one to spill something of importance…
anything tim might contribute that would equal out the vulnerability would increase his chances i think.
On a pragmatic level, I think if you want others to be self-disclosing, you model self-disclosure. Establish rapport and then begin pacing the person, then lead the pacing, and make self-disclosures. If the person also discloses something (anything!) then you positively reinforce.
On a nurturing and support / emotional level, not just saying “you’re safe here and loved” but doing the things that give a person that comfort is what creates that basis for allowing vulnerability.
I don’t think there is a guarantee that A1 will produce a litmus-test response … let alone a distinctively noticeable either-or response, but I think the research has shown it can produce an indicative response. I don’t have enough experience with A1 to be able to even guess how often it does produce any effect in appropriate dosage, and I’ve never read about what percent of the population does or does not respond to A1.
(I would go find the research links – texts are here on this forum – but it is very late, and I work again very early tomorrow morning. Perhaps later.)
So, let me respond here a little. Alcohol would be involved, I’m not sure how much though. it’s difficult because he has a girlfriend but there is definitely something weird going on when he’s around me. And it’s not only me who notices it. I definitely don’t want it to backfire so should I stay away from the Androstadienone? At this point, I don’t care what I have to use, I just need an answer. If it involves me wearing a scent to make him think I’m gay, so be it. it’s just gotten to the point where an answer is needed and he’s very quiet when it comes to that stuff.
And with Instant Honesty, I see someone mentioned spraying on more than normal. Would that help at all?
My testimony – which, like any evidence might ‘support’ but not ‘prove’ – is that some homosexual men do respond positively to A1, with clear signals of sexual arousal. But there’s also plenty of non-evidence (j/k) because a good percentage of the gay men who I’ve observed either covered their response or did not have a response to cover.
I don’t think there’s a categorical response for bisexual men, or, for that matter, for homosexual men. If we’re going to make well-qualified statements about A1, then I think the categorical statement
“Let H0 be the group of all males who have a history of overt homosexual activity, then for every h in H0, every exposure to A1 produces noticeable sexual arousal.”
will be easily proved false. Some men with a history of homosexual activity (which would include bisexuals) are not going to respond to A1 at all, and some will respond like heterosexual guys – and for some, whether they respond or not will depend on how well they’ve slept, or how much they’ve had to drink, or how long it’s been since they had sex to orgasm … So it seems more realistic to me to say
“Let H0 be the group of all males who have a history of overt homosexual activity, then there is statistically significant proportion of h in H0 for whom exposure to A1 sometimes produces noticeable sexual arousal.”
describes the higher likelihood of A1 arousal in both “homosexual” and “bisexual” males. AFAIK, saying more than that is pushing the current research / evidence farther than it can go.
(My personal observation is that I’m not aware of responding to A1 at all – neither depressed nor aroused. I’ve loved men and women both, sexually and romantically, so I think I qualify as bisexual for the purposes of this discussion.)
In any case, I don’t think there is any possible harm in Tim’s wearing A1
around his friend … unless you’d consider “arousal followed by panic reaction” to be “harm” (which case seems pretty unlikely, since he knows Tim is gay and remains his friend.)
Heya Mark! I don’t find A1 arousing at all. I’m a responder, but my response is comfort, quieting of PMS/irritability/anxiety - not arousal. I don’t recall other women here noting arousal from A1.
The study cites activation of a part of the brain “associated with sexual behavior,” but I don’t think that necessarily implies arousal. As I read it, one possibility suggested by the writers is that straight women and gay men associate A1 with sex - which is only reasonable given that the people they have sex with are men.
Makes me wonder if the arousing effect of 'none (which is more widely reported to cause arousal in women and gay men on the forum) is a direct one, or merely acting by association?
I’m not 100% sure my friend actually thinks I like him. I think he likes me, though. Basically, I think it’s turned into one of those messy situations. he thinks I like him, i told him i don’t. I think he likes me, he implied he doesn’t. Nobody knows where anyone stands and it’s weird since he’s involved with a girl and has been for years.
I went to go to a small club last night with a few friends. Turned out to be a guy’s birthday there - 90% of the people there were his friends and at a guess most of them were gay guys. (Only one woman in the group of maybe 50, 60?) I happened to be wearing about 4 sprays of IFM in my hair as well as plenty of other mones. Had a great evening - talked to a few people in that group but didn’t notice anything unusual at all from the guys. (Great reactions from the women in my group).
Oh - it’s possible the copulins in I Jerk distorted the results. I noticed invisibility reactions from women if I wear too high a dose of cops, so possibly the same thing was happening at a lower level in this case.
Ok, we’re still talking in the context that Tim’s friend has a secret that he has to spill, but what if he doesn’t? Is the idea that nothing brought forth on a given night conveyed as a failure of Instant Honesty, and not on the fact that it could have been a misperception and/or confusion on Tim’s end? I understand that there is doubt given the details of the situation, but I don’t think Instant Honesty will do much other than create a deeper conversation between the two of them. I agree that in environments where there is a positive synergy in the air, that it is possible for someone to confess things they normally wouldn’t talk about in everyday conversation, but that is based on fact that there really is anything to confess in the first place. I guess my point is whether or not Tim is reaching too far into this thing or not? We all know that Instant Honesty works, but as to its effectiveness as a truth serum, well, I don’t know… it depends on the social aspect of it. I guess Tim just needs to give a try, and let us know what happens. Perhaps give it a few tries…?
The “arousal” is defined in terms of mental activity … ummm, not necessarily in terms of overt horniness …